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Old May 10th, 2006, 04:17 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak
PSG was only created to give paris a first league team that could become the permanent resident of the Parc des Prince which was rebuilt at the end of the 60's.

Do you realise this stadium, in its actual configuration, is amost 40 years old????
Not really !! http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSG


The "new" Parc des Princes was build in 1972
The Paris FC used this stadium from 1972 to 1974 and in 1978/79
The PSG uses it since 1974
The RC Paris (RCF, Matra Racing) used it from 1984 to 1990

The first Parc des Princes was build in May 1897: it was a cycle-racing track. It was renovated in 1932
The RC Paris used it from 1932 to 1966
The Stade Francais used it from 1945 to 1966

In 1897:


After 1932:




Since 1972

Last edited by [email protected]; May 10th, 2006 at 04:26 PM.
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Old May 10th, 2006, 04:27 PM   #62
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What I said was not really wrong as the PDP need a top noch club as permanent team and I also never denied the this stadium was rebuilt at the end of the 60's.

Anyway thank you for the info, it was very interesting and thank you for the Pix.
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Old May 10th, 2006, 05:40 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vilak
What I said was not really wrong as the PDP need a top noch club as permanent team and I also never denied the this stadium was rebuilt at the end of the 60's.
Yes, not really wrong ... but not really right, as well.
It was just to complete your talk because it was not so easy...

So the Paris St Germain FC was created in 1970 after the merge of "Paris FC" and "Stade St Germain". The goal of the French Football Federation was to create a big team in Paris.

The town council of Paris was ready to subsidize this new team but it had to respect 3 conditions:
- the team must remain in D1 (first french league).
- the team must play in the future at the Parc des Princes (owned by the town council).
- the team has to change its name into Paris FC.

The third condition was not accepted. The PSG went to the third league (amateur). The PFC stayed at the Parc des Princes... (see message above).


On the other hand, the new Parc des Princes was built because of the construction of the periferique (ring road).


The intention of the creators of PSG was to create a big team in Paris.
The intention of the town council of Paris was to have a big permanent team at the Parc des Princes.
But the PSG was too "cheap" for the Capital and its new stadium...

Last edited by [email protected]; May 11th, 2006 at 11:09 AM.
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Old May 10th, 2006, 05:51 PM   #64
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Did PSG directly started to play at the PDP or only when they reach division 1 level?
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Old May 11th, 2006, 11:46 AM   #65
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The PSG started to play (as permanent team) at the Parc des Princes in 1974 when they reach the D1 (see above).

The first team which played at the Parc des Princes was the Paris FC in 1972 just after the clash between the PFC & the PSG: the professional section of the PSG changed its name into PFC and stayed in D1 ; the amateur section went to the third league.

When the PSG was created in 1970, the new Parc des Princes wasn't built yet.

I'm not sure where the PSG started to play ! In think in St Germain en Laye may be at the "Camps des Loges", the stadium of the team "Stade St Germain". Even if the "Stade St Germain" used to play at the "old" Parc des Princes for big match like the Coupe de France, I think the PSG never played at this old stadium.


The first match played at the Parc des Princes was 10 november 1973: PSG vs Red Star (D2 championship). After it was for big match:

Last edited by [email protected]; May 11th, 2006 at 11:59 AM.
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Old May 11th, 2006, 07:22 PM   #66
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Thanks for the info
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Old May 18th, 2006, 02:47 PM   #67
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An enormous improvment from what I see on the pics.

technically, this is an amazing stadium.

The way to improve the capacity is smart because is doesn't change the look of this stadium we, the french, all love.

Is this a common way to go deep under the street level to increase seating? I know it has been done with the La coliseum and I believe with nou camp. Does somebody have before/after pics so we could see IN REAL what it looks like when all is done? thank you
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Old May 18th, 2006, 06:47 PM   #68
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La colliseum before :




La colliseum after :




The capacity won about 14.000 seats.

The problem with PDP is that the stands on the side of the pitch are not as far as the ones behind the goals so the gain won't be regulary shared. it will be mostly behind the goals as you can see on the simulation that opened this topic.
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 08:08 PM   #69
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Thank you for the pix vilak.
This kind of improvment doesn't seem to be expensive but it must take a lot of time.
In france ligue1 is off from late-may to late-july. I don't think two month may be enough to do this kind of improvment.
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 08:15 PM   #70
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^well it isn't much of a problem, PSG can always play at the SdF for a month or two.
It isn't like LOSC
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 08:24 PM   #71
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Yes, then we could see how PSG fills the SDF on regular season.
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 08:30 PM   #72
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Otherwise two galleries of PdP pics on the PSG's official site:
http://www.psg.fr/fr/news/show.php?id=9631
http://www.psg.fr/fr/news/show.php?id=9637
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 08:58 PM   #73
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Great links.
Thanks.

So, do we have news about this expansion?
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Old May 22nd, 2006, 10:27 PM   #74
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^no, because even that animation isn't official, it's just an old project made by the architect, but the new investors still haven't unveiled their exact plans, they should do so by the end of the summer though.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 03:40 AM   #75
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I don't think they will start building before july 2007...Investors will probably like to wait and see if they can get some commitment on the luxury suites... Then the lower tribune extension will be four months max and even if it reduces attendence a bit I don't think psg will play games in SDF four months end of may june july august september beginning of october and here you are.
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Old May 23rd, 2006, 08:39 AM   #76
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excellent idea for the stadium. it needs it too.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 11:26 AM   #77
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You're right needa say when you say that the lower ring has just to be closed during the renovation but what about the pitch?
If this project is realized, the pitch won't be made until the digging is done, the grass is brought and the sieldline are paiinted and I think it will take more than two or three weeks to be done.

1/The digging : no useless so PSg can't play. (how many tims it takes?)
2/the (don't know the english word) of the grass. pitch still useless (again how many times it takes?°
3/the 2 goal are put and the sideline are painted (should take one day approx)
4/the rebuild of the stand behind the goal, which started as soon as the digging endend, reduce the capacity to 2 fifth (I've read that the lower ring hold more seat than the higher) but PSg can play on the stadium.
What do you think?
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Old May 25th, 2006, 06:28 PM   #78
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They did it in turkey only closing one part of the stands not the entire stand... so psg might do the same. Grass may well be grown outside the stadium and brought at the very last moment...
-digging: two weeks
-fondation: lets make it three weeks
-rebuild: another four weeks
-laying pitch plus side lining: 2 days
- receiving agreement from district officer: unknown
Plan a good three month for the seating extension (end of may beginnig of september)
true the lower stands holds 24000 seats but it still makes up for a good 35000...even with an unfinished lower stand... Rennes played in these condition when its stadium was being overhauled ...

With new extra fast driing concrete and concrete shaper it can be superfast... I hope they put a few webcams so we can see the process

The luxury suite would be done on the next summer. That's how I'd do it but once again I am not the new owner and I have no idea of all the administration fuss you need to get through. Ok if we really fancy sdf lets have two games there... 5 euros a seat to drain people... and please have it to be at least Bordeaux, Lyon or Marseille... Troyes, Nancy or Ajaccio are unlikely to get more than 40000 in there
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Old May 27th, 2006, 10:55 AM   #79
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Thank you very much for all those details, we really need to know this kind of things.

So we can seriously counts on a 4 months timeline?

And what about the cost?
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Old May 29th, 2006, 06:57 PM   #80
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4 months is possible if they focus on one task... if they want to do both seating and suites it could be a little longer...

Now the price: some US firms have a very simple way to budget these things 1000 per seat if you make it cheap up to 2500 if you make it luxury. this concept do not apply to brand new stadium. Because you have to include architecture, impact and environmental studies, land acquistion cost... and with all this the total price rise to a fair 6000 a piece. I.e the Emirates Stadium 60000 seats for a 390M (don't put currency unit they are useless) 6x60000=360M plus various additional cost 30=390M in this case think in english pounds. it hurst to much in Euros lol

French stadium can be a lot cheaper:
Grenoble stadium 1687 per seat
Ex future Lille stadium 2117 per seat
Clermont stadium 1000 per seat

In PDP's case there should not be any additional studies. So low estimate 8.000.000 if you do some kind of crappy job and I would think 12.000.000 high estimate. That would only include seating.

The luxury suites are kinda of an X-factor because you don't know how much space they would occupy...There's a possibility that they have to remove one or two row at the top of the low ring to build these things... So they could reuse these seats on the new lower stand. Now idea either on how luxury these luxury suite will be... That's why the owner might wait and test the market to get to know who wants what.

My final estimate if they do it right between 15-22 Million. However there are so many factors that it's kinda silly to budget it as long as there's no firm project on the table. Still to say it's a cheap price for that many seat

This expansion is still an architect dream,a fan fantasy, and a owner wet dream and an admistrative nightmare.
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