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Old June 8th, 2016, 01:07 AM   #1
jklsemicolon
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Lightbulb The EU and Liverpool

With the referendum just around the corner I thought it would be interesting to know everyone's thoughts on the effect of the EU on Liverpool - Past, Present and Future.

Beyond some of the "well designed" EU ads we see on some construction hoardings - is being in the EU a good thing for our city or could we do better without it?
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Old June 8th, 2016, 01:14 AM   #2
Wolves79
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Possibly the single worst calamity to have befallen the city.

Some grants came in 20 years later.

Leaving now doesn't mean Liverpool gets back what it lost on UK's accession to the EU however.

Short term prospects, probably tough as there will be a period of adjustment, maybe a UK recession and poor areas of the country suffer most from these.

Short term however Brexit could bring down the current government and generally mix things up a bit so that for example the unpopular with everyone save the Chancellor and those who think they'll benefit at the cost of other cities (plus Joe Anderson...) Liverpool-destroying HS2 plans are scuppered.

Long term who knows? There are too many variables but it could be a good thing overall, especially if the country, and trade, continues to reorient itself back towards the rest of the world. It puts a hole in that argument put out by those who want to do the city harm that it is "on the wrong side of the country" now doesn't it?
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Old June 8th, 2016, 01:47 AM   #3
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Old June 8th, 2016, 01:50 AM   #4
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Having said all that however that lame-o internet meme has swung it.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 01:54 AM   #5
-:Undertaker:-
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As a trading port city, our outlook should be global and not just European.

Future trade is outside the EU.



If we vote to Remain there's no doubt we'll be out within a decade or so anyway as the EU moves closer together which we're obviously not going to accept. In ten years time when that graph is more than reality, we'll wonder why in 2016 we tied ourselves to a shrinking trade bloc during such an important economic period in history where we should be making trade deals with India, China and the wider Commonwealth.

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Old June 8th, 2016, 02:02 AM   #6
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The EU kept the city of Liverpool afloat when the London government were determined to see it die by deliberate managed decline.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 02:03 AM   #7
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BREXIT will see a massive exit of foreign owned corporations now resident in the UK because of the language and access to the worlds largest trading block for their manufactured goods. To mitigate this exodus the UK may try and set up trade agreements with the White Commonwealth. The UK aligning with the likes of Australia and New Zealand is impractical, the distances being just one obvious barrier. They could always apply to become a Province of Canada which would gain them access to the NAFTA which would allow them to sell into the almost 1 billion consumer market. But just what would they sell that the North American nations (Canada-Mexico-USA) don't make themselves?

Another thing is just what will Scotland and Northern Ireland do if the English vote to leave the EU? It is believed that both those entities are less inclined to exit the EU. Northern Ireland could always reunite with the rest of Ireland, and Scotland, with it's sentiment for independence, will likely go the referendum route and, will likely secede from the Union of Crowns.

A difficult and tough choice and one that will take some thinking out and a choice I don't envy. Good luck whichever way you vote. But an exit from the EU would look good on Cameron and the Tories.
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we should be making trade deals with India, China and the wider Commonwealth.
What would you sell to those nations?
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Old June 8th, 2016, 02:04 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
As a trading port city, our outlook should be global and not just European.
Well quite, that's what Liverpool was once. Now we're a provincial town with a future that looks to be if Bremain win, Cameron-Osborne stay in power and HS2 is built as planned, marginalising us, that will resemble a nightmare mash up of Blackpool and Middlesbrough, if not worse. We know don't know what's in Mr Burns' Brexit box above but we do know what is in the box we're gonna be handed otherwise and it smells bad.

Last edited by Wolves79; June 8th, 2016 at 10:28 AM.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 02:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
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The EU kept the city of Liverpool afloat when the London government were determined to see it die by deliberate managed decline.
Hardly, should we thank the EU for giving us a bit of our money back in the form of grants?

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BREXIT will see a massive exit of foreign owned corporations now resident in the UK because of the language and access to the worlds largest trading block for their manufactured goods.
Let's be honest that's a load of tripe, the UK is the fifth largest economy in the world. I highly doubt everyone is going to evacuate and it'll become a wasteland overnight... The truth is if we leave, it'll be the start of the demise of the EU as others with follow.

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Another thing is just what will Scotland and Northern Ireland do if the English vote to leave the EU? It is believed that both those entities are less inclined to exit the EU. Northern Ireland could always reunite with the rest of Ireland, and Scotland, with it's sentiment for independence, will likely go the referendum route and, will likely secede from the Union of Crowns.
Sensationalist crap, if it is to ever occur that Northern Ireland would become part of the Republic of Ireland then we're a long way away from that at present. And I don't know if you follow British news over in the US, but as it happens just under 2 years ago Scotland voted to remain...

Last edited by Top Fella; June 8th, 2016 at 02:15 AM.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 02:12 AM   #10
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The EU kept the city of Liverpool afloat when the London government were determined to see it die by deliberate managed decline.
These sorts of claims need to be examined more closely. Sure the London government doesn't have Liverpool's interests at heart - quite the opposite. That's why it did something absolutely devastating like join the EEC in the first place, a decision that boosted London and the SE and laid waste to our economy. Now they want to marginalise us further with HS2. In between there were some grants, yes. But most of the Obj 1 first tranche went up the wall on training courses for jobs that didn't exist. At least some of the second went towards infrastructure. Some. But the money's gone now and there's no reason why in an ever expanding EU that we'll qualify for more. In fact it's a horrifying prospect to consider that we would. Maybe we will, maybe that's how bleak the future is going to be if the current government stays in and our city region continues its resumed post 2010 decline, it will become one of the poorest cities in Europe and qualify even if Turkey is let in! I'm still leaning to Brexit.

Last edited by Wolves79; June 8th, 2016 at 09:48 AM.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 02:12 AM   #11
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Obviously the EU intensified the decline of the Port of Liverpool but they do invest in the city in a way the government does not but to play devil's advocate, maybe they spend less because they know the EU gives us money?
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Old June 8th, 2016, 02:18 AM   #12
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Well the EU has stopped giving us money! So that's that.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 02:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Let's be honest that's a load of tripe, the UK is the fifth largest economy in the world
"Invisible" economy account for much of that economy (insurance, banking, investments,) etc., all of which can be accomplished by electronics, even from little islands like the Channel Islands, IOM and Cayman Islands just as easy as from the City of London but I think most would locate to Frankfurt of Paris. Major manufacturing like Tata Motors, BMW and Bombardier are all foreign owned and sell their products mostly within the EU. Why wouldn't Tata not relocate back to India and pay the tariff to sell into the EU? They would still have to pay that tariff selling into the EU from the UK. Bombardier is the same, repatriating jobs and paying a EU tariff from Canada is more logical than paying that tariff from the UK. IMO.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 02:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Fella View Post
Hardly, should we thank the EU for giving us a bit of our money back in the form of grants?



Let's be honest that's a load of tripe, the UK is the fifth largest economy in the world. I highly doubt everyone is going to evacuate and it'll become a wasteland overnight... The truth is if we leave, it'll be the start of the demise of the EU as others with follow.



Sensationalist crap, if it is to ever occur that Northern Ireland would become part of the Republic of Ireland then we're a long way away from that at present. And I don't know if you follow British news over in the US, but as it happens just under 2 years ago Scotland voted to remain...
Why the aggression? It's just a discussion and I am just offering an opinion, I have no skin in the game nor do I care what you do. Go or stay, it won't affect me very much.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 02:27 AM   #15
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If this map is anything to go by, Liverpudlians have no appetite for a 'Brexit', nor do the residents of any other major city in this country. A similar map by YouGov showed more or less the same thing - Liverpool was one of the most 'Europhile' areas. So, I guess the city by and large is likely to vote Remain, whether the EU is good for Liverpool or not.

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Old June 8th, 2016, 02:32 AM   #16
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Yep, it's a Bremain hotbed. One of the very hottest. There you go...
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Old June 8th, 2016, 02:47 AM   #17
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Quote:
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Yep, it's a Bremain hotbed. One of the very hottest. There you go...
No surprise when you remember that Liverpool people have always looked to horizons further than their English neighbours. That was a trait that made Liverpool the worlds first global city. When our neighbours were trading with Clitheroe, Chorlton-cum-Hardy and Chorley, Liverpool was trading with Cape Town, Chittagong and Chusan.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 08:48 AM   #18
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Thanks to the EU.
for the 2billion European investment.
now we are a vibrant attractive city packed out with tourist every day,
despite the lack of investment by national government.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 09:38 AM   #19
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WRONG.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 10:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogeyana View Post
No surprise when you remember that Liverpool people have always looked to horizons further than their English neighbours. That was a trait that made Liverpool the worlds first global city. When our neighbours were trading with Clitheroe, Chorlton-cum-Hardy and Chorley, Liverpool was trading with Cape Town, Chittagong and Chusan.
Don't need to worry about what the rest of the country is doing then, do you?
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