daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > Metropolis & States > Toronto > Development Archive



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 9th, 2005, 03:46 PM   #1
g2fl
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 32
Likes (Received): 0

ROM applies for 46 storey building

I know there was talk for a building on the old planetarium site, but I heard on 680 news that they have applied for a 46 Storey building on that site. In their words (680) they said it would be "roughly" 1/3 the size of the CN Tower.

If this is old news, please disregard.

Last edited by g2fl; September 9th, 2005 at 04:12 PM.
g2fl no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old September 9th, 2005, 04:01 PM   #2
Toronto36
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 24
Likes (Received): 0

Here is the news from the Toronto Star today

$3M condos
Plans to demolish planetarium 46-storey project called ROM South



VANESSA LU
CITY HALL BUREAU CHIEF

The Royal Ontario Museum wants to demolish the defunct McLaughlin Planetarium and replace it with a 46-storey tower that will house multi-million-dollar condos.

An employee of Graywood Developments Ltd., which has partnered with the ROM to develop the property, told the Star the tower would have four condominium units per floor, each about 3,000 square feet.

The estimated asking price would be around $3 million, with the penthouse possibly costing as much as $50 million. Forty floors would be condos.

The proposal will likely be opposed by at least two residents' groups, who say it is too big.

But William Thorsell, director and CEO of the ROM, said it means the museum can pay for the next phase of its Renaissance ROM project, in which the museum is being renovated and expanded to give the public access to more of its collections.

"We're getting substantial revenue out of this," he said yesterday.

Earlier yesterday the ROM applied to have the property rezoned to permit the development. The area is now zoned institutional and the ROM has requested it be changed to institutional/residential.

According to the ROM's website, the first five floors of the building would provide offices, storage and a link to the museum's main building.

Located at 90 Queen's Park and called ROM South, the plan also calls for a public plaza and improved subway access on the site that now houses the planetarium, long used as a storage site by the museum. It will include a pedestrian overpass connecting Queen's Park and Philosopher's Walk.

"Hopefully we'll get a yes for this and it will be great," Thorsell said.

But Councillor Olivia Chow, who represents the area, said the tower faces major obstacles.

"It's about the same height as the Toronto-Dominion Centre. It is much higher than anything around it," Chow said yesterday.

Residents who viewed the proposal at a meeting this week "were quite taken aback by the size," said Chow (Ward 20, Trinity-Spadina).

Meanwhile, Councillor Kyle Rae, who represents the ward to the east, called the project "an interesting proposition."

"The ROM has shown they're taking leadership on urban design with their new expansion on the north," Rae said. "They've got a site to the south that's a perfect location for a high-end condo very similar to what the Museum of Modern Art has done in New York City, where there's a condo right beside it."

But ratepayers groups aren't so sure.

Sue Dexter of the Harbord Village Residents' Association said there is "a lot of opposition in the community."

"This is selling off assets to afford things we can't afford to do," Dexter said. Instead, the ROM should wait until it has the money, she said.

David Powell, president of the Huron-Sussex Residents' Organization, said it doesn't fit into the neighbourhood.

"It's just over the top, it's too big, it's so tall."

with files from paul moloney and Dana Brown

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...2154&t=TS_Home
Toronto36 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2005, 04:06 PM   #3
Toronto36
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 24
Likes (Received): 0

Here is the article from the Globe and Mail. Looks to be an interesting tower.

By JOHN BENTLEY MAYS

Friday, September 9, 2005 Page G1

Since William Thorsell became director and CEO of the venerable Royal Ontario Museum in 2000, the former editor-in-chief of this newspaper has been pulling surprising architectural rabbits out of his hat at the rate of almost one a year.

The most startling so far is architect Daniel Libeskind's hulking composition of sharp elbows and angles, commissioned in 2002 and scheduled to become the ROM's Bloor Street West entrance next autumn.

Mr. Thorsell's surprise for 2005, which the ROM unwrapped for reporters this week, is the final scheme for a 45-storey skyscraper destined to rise from the debris of the decommissioned McLaughlin Planetarium on Queen's Park, south of Bloor Street.

This structure is certainly not as strange or pugnacious as Mr. Libeskind's crystal but, to tell you the truth, I've never seen a tall building in Toronto quite like it.

Designed for the ROM by Brian Brisbin, principal in the Toronto-based international architectural office of Brisbin Brook Beynon, the tower is two distinct buildings: a 40-storey condominium block atop a five-storey, 35,000-square-foot annex to the museum.

I'll start my commentary with the five-storey building on the bottom, which promises to give a cold shoulder to a few things that Toronto architects (and right-thinking Torontonians) hold sacred.

For example, we are frequently told that the bases of tall buildings should be mindfully knit into the streetscape, providing a comfortable, inviting backdrop for the passing parade of human life. (This is something I believe to be true, as a general rule.)

There should be stores, daycare centres, coffee shops, that kind of thing -- links, in other words, between the large urban structure and the living city into which it has been inserted.

Mr. Brisbin is having none of it. His five-storey box of sheer glass folds smartly around the severe, opaque museum building within. At ground level, this austere inner building will be clad in grey limestone to match the fabric of the old museum, to which it is connected by pedestrian bridges at every level.

The lobby is forbiddingly spare. Its plain stone walls, punctuated by sharply cut, unadorned monumental doorways, has the y'all-come-in charm and hospitality of an Egyptian tomb.

The chief activation in the area around the base of the tower will be created by people coming and going through the gleaming new crystalline entrance to Museum Station next door, and the floating, spectral images (of such things as museum artifacts) projected on holographic film embedded in the glass walls of the lobby and the subway exit.

The 40-storey condominium tower, connected to its base by a dramatically slender waist, is an architectural counter play to the serious business down below. Great panels of translucent glass fabric, seemingly pinned to invisible points in the sky above the highest suites, sweep downward to the tower's hemline at a sharp angle, like the silk of a bias-cut ball gown from the Jazz Age.

Whatever their differences in artistic sense -- royal tomb and swank, respectively -- the monumental base and tall shaft of this composition share a common modernist aristocracy, a similar aloofness, and marked indifference to the proletarian bustle of the streets.

But why should they do anything else? The museum section of this project will house the facilities of an august and magnificent museum that has suffered quite enough from decades of PR-driven democratic showbiz.

It's surely time the ROM reminded the general public (as it does here) that it is, after all, the child of Victorian Toronto's taste for high style, for the rare and exquisite and imposing.

The condominium tower will feature just 100 large apartments, which may well be (as Mr. Thorsell has speculated) the most luxurious and expensive high-rise quarters in Toronto.

I see nothing at all wrong with having at least one Toronto skyscraper that looks as pricey as the people who live in it.

But is this the right location for a glamorous tower, in the generally low-rise neighbourhood of the University of Toronto? In an interview, Mr. Brisbin argued that his building will be an "icon," a powerful vertical symbol pulling attention down to the high-cultural ground it stands on, like the campanile in Venice's Piazza San Marco. (Near the ROM: the Gardiner Museum of Ceramic Art, the Royal Conservatory of Music, the Bata Shoe Museum, Victoria University, Trinity University, and other important Toronto institutions.)

I like the architect's idea for his tall building, and I like the broad-shouldered hauteur of the structure itself. I look forward to seeing how it works, when the images now available to us assume three-dimensional reality beside Toronto's greatest treasury of past beauties.
Toronto36 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2005, 04:55 PM   #4
Skybean
天豆
 
Skybean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,953
Likes (Received): 219

WOW. This thing would be very tall-- (223m / 731ft!!) as tall as the Toronto Dominion. If it will allow ROM to house some offices and if it meshes well with the crystal, it could be a good thing. I'm hopeful that this will be approved.


....If it doesn't look like the "mating seal" render
__________________
My Photos」 ● Hong Kong 1|2|3 ● Macau 1 ● London 1 ● New York City 1
Photo Threads」 ● Flying Over Hong KongCity Life Series」 ● Hong KongShanghaiSeoulTokyo
Skybean no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2005, 05:45 PM   #5
Skybean
天豆
 
Skybean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,953
Likes (Received): 219

ROM condo would tower over U of T

By JAMES ADAMS

Friday, September 9, 2005 Page A1

The Royal Ontario Museum has applied to the city's planning department for approval to erect a 44-storey, 197-metre-high condominium and office tower on the site of the defunct McLaughlin Planetarium at the museum's southern border.

The skyscraper -- which, if built, will be slightly more than one-third the height of the CN Tower -- is expected to generate considerable discussion and debate between now and its expected completion date in mid-2008. In part, this is because it's to be situated within the footprint of the University of Toronto in an area that so far has been predominantly institutional in nature, rather than residential.

The sheer presence and height of the proposed tower are "substantially in excess of what existing regulations allow," a city planner said yesterday.

"It's a significant application . . . and we will be examining it carefully with respect to existing policies for that district."

The layered-glass tower, a co-development with Toronto-based Graywood Developments Ltd., that will feature 39 floors of condominiums atop a five-storey, 3,150-square-metre podium of facilities for the ROM and other institutions, is expected to cost more than $1,000 a square foot. This in a city where $500 a square foot is considered luxurious.

The entire structure will likely contain no more than 90 units, the smallest being about 1,900 square feet, and the largest approximately 8,000 square feet.

"Certainly, it's going to be one of the most expensive buildings . . . that's ever been seen in Canada," said Brian Brisbin of Toronto's Brisbin Brook Beynon, principal architects for the project.

For William Thorsell, director and CEO of the ROM, the tower is "the last great gift to Toronto from" the $230-million Renaissance ROM project he initiated in 2001, and a "fitting bookend and balance" to the Daniel-Libeskind-designed crystalline structure currently being erected on the ROM's northern perimeter along Bloor Street W.

The metal-and-glass crystal renovation is scheduled to open to the public July 1 next year.

Mr. Thorsell was decidedly bullish yesterday about the prospects for the tower, which the ROM requires for both its administrative functions and the financing of programs and operations in its expanded quarters. With 27,000 square metres of new and renovated exhibition space coming on stream, the museum is hoping to increase its annual average attendance to 1.6 million from the current 900,000.

Besides, Toronto "needs a few expensive buildings," he said. "We've been building at $200 a square foot for years . . . Look at Nathan Phillips Square and vicinity: it's so degraded now you'd think you're in some mid-level Soviet city.''

The overall project, called ROM South, also involves a radically improved, highly accessible museum subway stop for the Toronto Transit Commission as well as landscaping and a reflecting pool along Queen's Park and an east-west extension of the north-south axis of bucolic Philosopher's Walk, to align roughly with Charles Street.

However, despite what Mr. Thorsell called "its obvious excellence" -- Mr. Brisbin likened the ROM tower to the campanile, or bell tower, in Venice's famous Plaza San Marco and Cesar Pelli's well-regarded residential tower on the site of New York's Museum of Modern Art -- it's clear some sort of fight with planners, city councillors, U of T officials or neighbouring residents is expected.

Graywood Developments recently hired Toronto lawyer Stephen Diamond to help shepherd the ROM tower through city hall and the appeals that likely will end up at the Ontario Municipal Board.

But even if it scores approval, will there be any buyers? Brad Martin, a prominent realtor in the Toronto condominium market, has his doubts. Yesterday he agreed the high-end route is the way to go for the McLaughlin site, but with the ROM residences likely to cost $2-million or more, the Graywood-ROM vision is perhaps too high-end and unrealistic in the city's competitive, condo-rich market.

__________________
My Photos」 ● Hong Kong 1|2|3 ● Macau 1 ● London 1 ● New York City 1
Photo Threads」 ● Flying Over Hong KongCity Life Series」 ● Hong KongShanghaiSeoulTokyo

Last edited by Skybean; September 9th, 2005 at 09:50 PM.
Skybean no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 9th, 2005, 07:57 PM   #6
You are to blame
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,716
Likes (Received): 14

I think this condo is way too pricey(3 to 50 million) for toronto and will not sell well at all if at all.

from ssp
the courtyard

__________________
Africa
GDP (PPP): $3.6 Trillion (2013)
Population: 1.1 Billion people (2013)


Last edited by You are to blame; September 9th, 2005 at 08:04 PM.
You are to blame no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 12:04 AM   #7
Mike in TO
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 378
Likes (Received): 0

Trump
Shangri La
Ritz
Four Seasons
ROM

Just where are all these multi-millionare buyers supposed to come from. Toronto would be better positioned to build these if there were one or two on the market. With five I suspect that the market will be divided and there is a risk that most will not be built.
Mike in TO no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 12:08 AM   #8
SD
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Likes (Received):

Looks ridiculous at this location. Bad idea.
  Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 12:27 AM   #9
Filip
BANNED
 
Filip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,900
Likes (Received): 388

It would look amazing..... the only problem is, can the market handle it? Probably not...
Filip no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 12:59 AM   #10
Travis007
Registered User
 
Travis007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,063
Likes (Received): 54

Tower looks nice...the glass wings seem to twist like the 1331 georgia building in Vancouver and the Al Durrah in Dubai. And I don't mind the location and how out of place it might seem.

But the pricing is rediculous. Starting at $3 million? I think Trump was starting from $500 K and I doubt anyone would buy the $50 million penthouse.
__________________
Flickr
Travis007 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 03:38 AM   #11
rbt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,644
Likes (Received): 11

Quote:
But the pricing is rediculous. Starting at $3 million? I think Trump was starting from $500 K and I doubt anyone would buy the $50 million penthouse.
This is a far better location than Trump. It's near Yorkville and the ROM (of course). It will likely have a direct connection to the subway line via the ROM (yes, the rich in Toronto regularly use the rail based public transit).

Graywood has plenty of experience and a good name. Perhaps they've figured out a way of having a %age of the purchase price be tax deductable as a donation to the ROM or some other secret?

If each family which contributed $250k or above (directly or via their company) for the current overhaul purchased a single unit, the building would be 30% sold.


I agree about the penthouse pricing being a little high, but they did say "up-to". The $50M penthouse would make it the second most expensive Condo in North America and likely within the top 10 most expensive homes on the continent.

Last edited by rbt; September 10th, 2005 at 04:51 AM.
rbt no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 04:17 AM   #12
416
Not in service
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Ishtar
Posts: 318
Likes (Received): 1

Reality is - only a complete fool would pay $50mil for a condo in Toronto. That'll never fly.

I can't believe i'm saying this but I think it's too tall and just not appropriate. What's the focal point here? The ROM or the condo? By the sounds of it, the ROM is just pimping themselves out to pay for their expansion. Sad.

The base looks terribly uninviting and cold. Can't imagine that space in the winter. I do like the fins at the top though and the building in general but just not there.

Lastly, I highly doubt anyone who pays $3 million for a condo takes the TTC. So the fact that there's a subway at your door is rather irrelevant.
Rich people take cabs.
__________________
“(It’s) a fun and friendly big city. Toronto is and will always be a great big egotistical city – but it knows how to work and it knows how to party.”

Julie Ovenell-Carter, Vancouver Sun
416 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 04:36 AM   #13
Travis007
Registered User
 
Travis007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,063
Likes (Received): 54

Just out of curiousity...why such high prices?

I understand that the location is second to none in Toronto with subway, downtown, Yorkville just steps away but is it because it shares the name "ROM" or does the ROM need that much money to help pay for the new Crystal addition?
__________________
Flickr
Travis007 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 04:43 AM   #14
partybits
partybits
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,452
Likes (Received): 2

I like the building myself. The use of glass will definatly complement the new ROM. The prices are crazy though. What I can't understand is that if this building is 46 stories, why is it 680ft? That's almost 15 ft per floor. A bit much for residentual. Then again, when your paying $3million+...
partybits no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 04:57 AM   #15
rbt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,644
Likes (Received): 11

Quote:
Lastly, I highly doubt anyone who pays $3 million for a condo takes the TTC. So the fact that there's a subway at your door is rather irrelevant.
I can assure you many a VP and CXO with $2M+ condos and homes take the TTC on a regular basis. I've worked with a few myself, and run into others like members of the Thompson family.
rbt no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 05:33 AM   #16
Bertez
Registered User
 
Bertez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sauga
Posts: 2,223
Likes (Received): 1

The very top of the building seems to be just glass, no "real" building. Very unique
Bertez no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 06:13 AM   #17
KGB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: TO
Posts: 5,794
Likes (Received): 43

I see no problem unloading multi-million$ condos...the area is already full of them...and only 100 to sell...I don't see a problem. Especially as this one may be able to market itself as the absolute best of all of them. Trump is just a crass name in a bad location.

Selling multi-million$ units in buildings that have $149k units is hard, as the rich like to live in exclusive buildings, which is why those building tend to sell better.

$50 million is another story though...I guess you only need one buyer, but that's a chunk of change even in expensive cities. If they market this project right, it could appeal to a wider global market though...it has a lot of international cashe possibilities if done right.

And yes, many wealthy downtowners and midtowners love to take the subway....Toronto's Yonge line has never had an image problem with being "working class". The Bloor line is a different story.


Anyway, I hope the project goes through without being mangled to death in the process. I wouldn't say the area south of Bloor around there is "generally" a good spot for this size of tower, but this particular building and location seems like a rare exception to do it.



KGB
KGB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 07:48 AM   #18
Dino Domingo
Canadiense
 
Dino Domingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The T-Dot
Posts: 1,267
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB

Anyway, I hope the project goes through without being mangled to death in the process. I wouldn't say the area south of Bloor around there is "generally" a good spot for this size of tower, but this particular building and location seems like a rare exception to do it.

KGB
If the building was completed it would also compliment the newly proposed Four Seasons Tower up the street very well if that building gets made too.
Dino Domingo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 12:39 PM   #19
samsonyuen
SSLL
 
samsonyuen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Canary Wharf > CityPlace
Posts: 8,495
Likes (Received): 279

Sounds interesting. I wonder what it'd look like amongst the U of T buildings and next to Queen's Park.
samsonyuen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 10th, 2005, 03:56 PM   #20
Regan4000
BANNED
 
Regan4000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 609
Likes (Received): 0

With currtent escalating gas prices and the fact that most businessmen don't drive to work in the first place, the subway link would be an attraction for sure.

I think it would look fine at this location, stop being such pussies, build tall buildings whenever you can, where ever you can.
Regan4000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu