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South Florida Transportation Part II

2M views 10K replies 239 participants last post by  N830MH 
#1 ·
Hey guys, Part I reached the limit...Continue over here...

Here is the original...
 
#3,081 ·
I have a car and I'm also currently taking the metro. But I'm used to taking the metro because I'm from the northeast. But as you pointed out people aren't going to give up their cars. Public officials don't value public transportation because the people who vote for them don't value public transportation. In places like Miami its viewed as a means of transportation for poor people.

So while some people watch America falling behind most people don't see it because to them you can't fall behind in something that you don't care about. It would be like if you told people that Asia has the best ping pong players. Most Americans wouldn't care as long as we still have the best football, baseball and basketball players.

It wont be until years later when more people have moved back to the inner cities that people will begin to realize the value of public transportation.
Another problem is a lot of large American cities have so much sprawl. Atlanta, Charlotte, Houston, Dallas and Phoenix are examples of this. In order to have sufficient and useful transit systems in those cities, it would take Billions upon Billions of dollars. It's easier to put up a 10 lane freeway for most cities and that's what they have been doing. It's funny, people think of those newer "modern" cities as being ahead of cities in the Northeast and Midwest, but cities in those regions are well ahead in the area of mass transit. Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Chicago and Washington, D.C. have the best transit systems in this country by a good margin.

So the problem in a lot of cities is perception, which has been mentioned, and just the overall size of the system to be useful for a large portion of the city and metro area. Go to a city like Boston or Chicago and you will see a ton of people dressed nicely going to work riding the bus or taking the subway.
 
#3,083 · (Edited)
I've always thought of that too, that all transit in South Florida should be unified, like it is in the areas you mentioned. In Minneapolis, the transit system even spans to cities outside of the metro, such as St. Cloud. It would make things easier for pre-paid or monthly cards, instead of having to have one for each county, make it so that if it works on public transit anywhere in the 3 counties, it will work anywhere else in the 3 counties.
Unified systems are common elsewhere and I also believe it would benefit South Florida, even though there are no plans for it actually happening.

It wouldn't necessarily mean an extension of heavy-rail (the cost involved makes it extremely unlikely the feds would want any involvement and local gov can't come close to funding it) but I do believe that a tri-county approach could lead to much more sensible, unified planning and certainly more political pull locally and at the federal level.

You could use any number of other transit systems for contrast, such as SEPTA here in the Philadelphia area. It covers virtually the entire metro region and even crosses a state border, with train service through Delaware and nearly to the Maryland border---as well as integration with subway and rail lines into the New Jersey suburbs. That's a huge number of people using the same transit agency---all of them desirous of improvements and extensions to the system---and with multiple representitives in Congress. Contrast that to the South Florida model where MDTA or BCT or whoever are much smaller 'fiefdoms' concentrating mostly on one county rather than the entire region and you can see why the political muscle gets diffused and is largely innefective. The three counties can literally find themselves squabbling over the same limited funding, which clearly isn't productive at all.

Years ago (decades, really), there was much talk about a unified 'super' transit agency for South Florida but that idea seemed to fade---mostly because I believe those in their individual little fiefs didn't want to lose whatever power they imagine themselves having rather than being part of a bigger organization working towards common regional goals.

It would be healthy to see that idea revived.
 
#3,086 ·
Shula, Gratigny to get new extensions
The Gratigny Parkway and Don Shula Expressway could both get extended within the next few years.
BY CHRISTINA VEIGA AND THOMAS JOHNSON

CVEIGA@MIAMIHERALD.COM

The Miami-Dade Expressway Authority is planning two major highway expansions, one at each end of the county.
In South Miami-Dade, MDX plans to extend the Don Shula Expressway over Florida's Turnpike in West Kendall. And to the north, the authority plans to fill in the missing link of the Gratigny Parkway between I-95 and 32nd Avenue.
The projects, which would cost into the nine-figures, will be financed by tolls. Construction probably won't start for several years, but the agency kicked things off this week with community meetings to discuss the plans with neighbors, users, and the businesses that would be affected.
``It does not appear that this is going to close any homes or businesses,'' said MDX spokesman Mario A. Diaz. ``All that will have to be determined at the end of the study. So there's no hard answer.''
In spite of the economic slump, MDX is able to forge ahead with its plans because the road projects are planned up to 30 years in the future, said spokeswoman Cindy Polo.
``Everything that deals with transportation is usually down the line,'' she said. ``Those projects have been talked about for a long time.''
The Shula will get a new ramp extending the highway west to 137th Avenue.
The authority also has a more stable funding source, since it relies on tolls and not tax funding, Polo said.
``If our economy keeps going down, our plans will still stay on track and we'll continue to still have the jobs,'' she said.
SHULA EXTENSION
In Country Walk, plans call for a ramp taking the Shula over the turnpike's Homestead Extension, then about 20 blocks west, probably to 137th Avenue.
``It's definitely needed,'' said Rolando Figuerado, a traveling salesman who lives in Country Walk. ``It would help me to get to the connecting highways.''
But the connector may cause problems for homeowners, businesses, a pineland preserve -- or all three.
MDX showed residents several possible routes for the extension last week.
The leading proposal would follow 128th Street. The new highway would go down the center of the route, with service roads on either side providing access to businesses.
``I think the increased traffic flow might help businesses,'' said John Meizosi, who lives in the nearby Bonita Lakes development.
Meizosi, 35, was less enthused about two other proposals that would build the connector within 60 feet of his neighborhood.
``They're going to get a lot of pushback from us,'' he said.
Business owners also expressed concerns about one of the alternative plans, which would place the connector ramp along Southwest 136th Street.
The proposal -- as well as a third that would create an on-ramp at Southwest 136th Street and off-ramp at Southwest 128th Street -- would also clip a portion of the Tamiami Complex Pineland Preserve. That would require state approval, officials said.
Rolando Garcia, who owns the building and a restaurant at RGB Plaza on Southwest 136th Avenue and Southwest 135th Terrace, said those plans would cause worse traffic delays than already exist.
``I'm going to be losing business,'' he said. ``It would kill me.''
GRATIGNY EXTENSION
Business owners in Westview had similar concerns when it comes to proposed expansion of the Gratigny. The parkway currently ends at Northwest 32nd Avenue, forcing traffic to drive through a business area for about two miles before recaching I-95.
Maria Marquez, whose bakery, La Aurora, has been in the area for 27 years, said the through-traffic is good for her business.
``With the economy, we don't need this,'' Marquez said. ``We need all the trucks coming through.''
Others worried about the effect the expansion would have on property values and the community.
``I think they're going to destroy the neighborhood,'' said Abel Rodriguez, a nurse who has lived in the area since 1983. ``They're going to destroy the fabric of the community, just like they did in Overtown.''
For now, the projects are only funded through the current study phases. A final cost and timeline have yet to be decided, though officials forecast construction could begin as early as 2016 on the Gratigny. The Shula connector could be complete by 2017. And there is always a possibility nothing will be built at all, officials said -- depending on the outcome of the studies.
Officials said they will take into account resident feedback and plan more public workshops to come.
The agency is also planning other projects, including a westward expansion of the Gratigny to the Turnpike and improvements to the South Miami-Dade express bus lanes along U.S. 1.


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/09/...igny-to-get-new-extensions.html#ixzz10fJTUQTy
 
#3,088 ·
I was scouring the SFECC Alternative Analysis presentation file, a 100+ page document and found two things I found particularly interesting (apart from the alternatives themselves of course).

The first, is this image of a concept for "town center" stations which would be built in areas where mixed-use development already exists (i.e. Midtown in Miami-Dade County or Hollywood Station in Broward):




The second is even more interesting. Many of us have seen the rendering of the multi-modal Downtown Miami Station the DDA shows at its meetings and information sessions. However, in this PDF, I found an image I'd never seen before which depicts a mid-rise tower surrounded by a completely covered station hall and platform area next to the existing Government Center Station:



I quite like the proposal although it goes unmentioned throughout the rest of the presentation so its seriousness comes into question...
 
#3,089 ·
It's probably just some simple first though renderings of what would happen, how would it look, and where it would be. These designers are just showing off their first thoughts of how the project would look/work. It would almost certanly change if this project gets further along.

Just my thought of what you are showing us.
 
#3,091 ·
The proposal for the Government Center station reminds me of the Transbay station they are building in San Francisco.
They need to build it.
 
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#3,092 ·
Bridge or tunnel considered for proposed commuter train to cross New River in downtown Fort Lauderdale

Artist rendering of a high level arch bridge. The view is from Andrews Avenue facing west. (Communikatz, Inc., courtesy)

By Michael Turnbell, Sun Sentinel
5:29 p.m. EDT, October 5, 2010



Bridge or tunnel? The city of Fort Lauderdale seems poised to plunge into another contentious debate over the best way to get people past a body of water.

A decade ago, the fight was over what to do with the 17th Street Causeway over the Intracoastal Waterway.

Today, it's the Florida East Coast Railway and a proposed commuter train that needs to cross the New River in downtown Fort Lauderdale without being held up by boats.

State officials have proposed three options:

A $53 million, 65-foot tall fixed bridge;

A $66 million, 45-foot drawbridge;

Or a tunnel that could cost up to $530 million.

The existing railroad drawbridge won't work for passenger rail service because it stands open most of the time so boats can pass underneath. It is lowered for about a dozen freight trains a day. But the number of daily trains would double, even triple, with the addition of passenger service.

Residents in high-rise condo towers near the tracks say a high-level bridge would be an "ugly eyesore" that would cut through the heart of the city.

"I don't think the general public realizes the impact this could have on property values and the marine industry," said Riverside Park resident Charles Read.

Boat owners argue the fixed bridge could cut off ocean access to the tallest boats moored west of the tracks or those that are serviced at boatyards and marinas along the South Fork of the New River.

"It might actually totally exclude a boat I've owned for 20 years from getting to our dock," said Ralph Alter, who also lives in Riverside Park.

In March 2009, planners surveyed boats along the New River between the Andrews Avenue drawbridge and Interstate 95. They found the average height of the tallest sailboats was about 55 feet, with the tallest at 67 feet.

A marine operator that works at River Bend Marine Center told planners that at least two sailboats a month require a vertical clearance between 80 feet and 85 feet. Occasionally, there is a boat that reaches 95 feet in height.

The taller boats time their trip at low tide so they can pass comfortably under power lines that stretch 80 to 100 feet over the river west of the tracks.

The marine operator said the average height of boats he serves is 63.5 feet, an intentional design by many sailboat manufacturers driven by the 65-foot clearance under fixed bridges on the Intracoastal Waterway. The 17th Street drawbridge is 55 feet tall.

The proposed fixed bridge over the New River would have to begin rising north of Davie Boulevard on the south end and south of Sistrunk Boulevard on the north end to reach 65 feet over the New River.

Such long approaches are necessary to avoid closing streets that would pass under the span, said Scott Seeburger, project manager of the study for the Florida Department of Transportation.

The 45-foot tall drawbridge would have the same start and end points as the 65-foot span. But it would cost $66 million, the higher cost attributed to the drawbridge machinery. It would not have to be opened as often as the existing drawbridge, which is four feet above the water when lowered.

Two tunnel options would bury the tracks under the river and downtown from Davie Boulevard to Sistrunk Boulevard.

One would use a "cut and cover" construction method and build the tunnel in two phases over 23 months. Boats would be restricted to half the channel during construction. It would cost between $325 million and $335 million.

The other option would bore under the channel and maintain existing boat traffic. But it would cost $510 million to $530 million.

Any passenger rail stations built in downtown Fort Lauderdale would be elevated if a bridge is built or under ground if the tunnel is chosen.

A tunnel wouldn't be unprecedented in Florida, but it would add hundreds of millions to a project estimated to cost more than $2 billion if officials chose to put a commuter train on the FEC between Miami and Jupiter.

State officials also are considering building a road for buses next to the tracks for exclusive use by rapid transit buses. But analysis suggests rail is being favored over buses because the company that owns the FEC opposes the construction of a busway next to the tracks but doesn't object to sharing the tracks with commuter trains.

Fort Lauderdale is home to the state's only public underwater tunnel — the Henry Kinney Tunnel on U.S. 1, which replaced a low-level drawbridge in 1960. A $1 billion tunnel is under construction to connect Miami's MacArthur Causeway to the Port of Miami.

Opponents back the idea of commuter trains on the FEC, but argue that a tunnel is the best, less obtrusive option to cross the New River.

"The illustrations make the [FEC] bridge look very graceful in the artwork. We don't believe the final structure will look like the illustration at all," said Bob Granatelli, a spokesman for five downtown condominium associations representing 1,000 homeowners.

Residents fear the bridge and its approaches will look similar to the 55-foot tall span that was built for Tri-Rail over the South Fork of the New River.

The bridge is just west of the I-95 bridges over the river, which also are 55 feet tall. It begins rising where Davie Boulevard crosses the tracks and ends at the State Road 84 overpass. Unlike the proposed bridges for the FEC, the Tri-Rail bridge does not cross any streets.

"That is the type of ugly, massive, intrusive, structure that will be built in our backyards," Granatelli said. "Many of us escaped the 'El' train running right past our windows in New York City."

State officials say the Tri-Rail bridge looks "bulkier" because it was built to handle both freight and passenger trains.

But CSX freight trains continue using the existing drawbridge because the Jacksonville-based freight railroad objected to the use of an additive that helps cure and strengthen concrete in the bridge supports. The company apparently feared a repeat of the April 2004 bridge collapse on a Tampa expressway.

Seeburger said the planning is just beginning. More detailed analysis of the river crossing will begin next year.

"Some have interpreted our bridge drawings as creating a big wall. Actually, the higher level bridges would be built on columns, except at the ends where they come to the ground," Seeburger said.

"Look at the 17th Street Causeway. I'm sure if you compared the initial renderings with what got built I'm sure they were dramatically different. If we choose to do a bridge, this will go through that same design process."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/br...r-bridge-tunnel-20101005,0,6753719,full.story
 
#3,093 ·
^^^Miami already has a tunnel boring machine on order for the Port of Miami tunnel project. Could Broward save some money by hiring the same company Miami is using for the tunnel project to build the New River rail tunnel in Broward? Possibly saving money on the cost of a tunnel boring machine, in return this particular construction company lands the rail tunnel job. Could this be feasible?
 
#3,096 ·
The bridge is pretty ugly, IMO. Looks like a typical concret highway overpass with an arch over the river...

Bridge option... sucks, for a lack of a better word. As the article mentions, it was span north of Davie Blvd to south of Sistrunk, with the highest point over the river. That's a 1.5 mile long bridge cutting right through the city. It will be a huge eyesore, especially with that design. Hopefully we'll just make the investment when the times comes, and go with the tunnel.

I'm curious what an elevated commuter rail stations looks like, though.
 
#3,097 ·
an elevated train would not increase house property. Instead it would make it less attractive to live there because of the noise, just imagine a huge 50ft or 100ft structure couple of feet away from your house. In my case I would be looking to move out of there soon...

Why are we so afraid to use the best technology in order to live a more accommodate life and save money in the long run.
Just look at an example of manhattan, one of the primary reason trains are underground is because of the cost of land use. Land can be use in other ways than building a rail road. If we're to make a tunnel it would be a tremendous advantage for those who live around the area by not disrupting their livelihood. One example it went wrong... I-95 drive thru Overtown, it doesn't matter how tall is it or how low is it, it matters if is visual.
 
#3,098 ·
I see the NIMBYs including the boating community is now bitching about a 65 foot bridge! Uh get smaller sails idiots! These people are more worried about their sailing hobby than the general good of the community.
As for what elevated stations would look like I would imagine they would look just like the Metrorail stations.
PS : I like the rendering of the arched bridge.
 
#3,100 ·
State on track for bullet-train funds

State on track for bullet-train funds.
Posted on 10.21.10

The U.S. Secretary of Transportation says the federal government's vision to build a national high-speed rail system would take 25 years to build and cost $500 billion.

BY ALFONSO CHARDY
achardy@ElNuevoHerald.com

Florida may learn next week whether the Obama administration will give it the $1.1 billion it needs to start construction of a bullet train track between Tampa and Orlando that eventually might be extended to Miami, U.S. Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood said Wednesday during a conference call with reporters.

In answer to a question from El Nuevo Herald, LaHood said his agency plans to announce new grants next week -- part of a broad strategy to gradually build a national high-speed rail system that would cover most of the country, take more than two decades to complete and cost about $500 billion. Florida hopes its request for more than $1 billion will be among next week's grants.

The vision outlined by LaHood resembles the strategy the federal government followed since the 1950s to build the landmark interstate highway system that now crisscrosses the country. It has been built in chunks over decades at a cost of almost $129 billion.

``Our plan is to connect 80 percent of America, high-speed inter-city rail, in the next 25 years at a cost of $500 billion,'' LaHood said.

Besides discussing high-speed rail, LaHood talked about nearly $600 million in grants for transportation projects in 40 states including Florida which will get more than $41 million for three projects, including one at the Port of Miami.

The more than $22 million going to the port, announced by Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., last week, would be used to refurbish a freight-train line from the Port of Miami to the FEC Hialeah Railyard.

Earlier this year, the Florida Department of Transportation requested $1.1 billion from the Federal Railroad Administration to begin building the Tampa-Orlando leg, plus $8 million to advance the Orlando-Miami segment.

President Barack Obama traveled to Tampa on Jan. 28 and announced Florida would receive $1.25 billion for the Tampa-Orlando project, half of what the state initially sought.

A map of designated high-speed rail corridors on a Federal Railroad Administration website --http://www.fra.dot.gov/

While building a Tampa-Orlando segment would be a coup for Florida, transportation experts say only extending the line to Miami would make the project viable given the volume of international tourists who start Florida trips in Miami and the fact the state's densely-populated urban areas are in South Florida.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/10/21/1883534/state-on-track-for-bullet-train.html


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/10/21/1883534/state-on-track-for-bullet-train.html#ixzz130lUgpwt
 
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