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South Florida Transportation Part II

2M views 10K replies 239 participants last post by  N830MH 
#1 ·
Hey guys, Part I reached the limit...Continue over here...

Here is the original...
 
#3,162 ·
Florida offers $118M for Jax-Miami passenger rail
South Florida Business Journal - by Mark Szakonyi , Jacksonville Business Journal
Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 1:52pm EST

The Florida Department of Transportation is proposing to put up $118 million to bring back passenger rail service to the Jacksonville-Miami line if the federal government kicks in the remaining $150 million.

Federal Railroad Administration spokesman Warren Flatau said it is no known when the agency would release a third wave of grant opportunities, according to TCPalm.com, a Treasure Coast and Palm Beaches newspaper.

About $268 million is needed to allow 90 mph Amtrak passenger trains to use the Florida East Coast Railway line, connecting Florida east coast cities that do not receive Amtrak service through the current Miami-Tampa-Orlando-Jacksonville line.

The 351-mile railway line, built by 19th-century tycoon Henry Flagler, ended passenger service in the mid-1960s.
..

Read more: Florida offers $118M for Jax-Miami passenger rail | South Florida Business Journal
 
#3,164 ·
anyone know about the construction on nw 25th st? been trying to find out but haven't found any thing solid...
It's a ramp that connects the cargo area of MIA with SR 826...so in the future, trailer trucks will take that route instead of driving on NW 25th ST...
 
#3,166 ·
Florida offers $118M for Jax-Miami passenger rail
South Florida Business Journal - by Mark Szakonyi , Jacksonville Business Journal
Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 1:52pm EST

The Florida Department of Transportation is proposing to put up $118 million to bring back passenger rail service to the Jacksonville-Miami line if the federal government kicks in the remaining $150 million.

Federal Railroad Administration spokesman Warren Flatau said it is no known when the agency would release a third wave of grant opportunities, according to TCPalm.com, a Treasure Coast and Palm Beaches newspaper.

About $268 million is needed to allow 90 mph Amtrak passenger trains to use the Florida East Coast Railway line, connecting Florida east coast cities that do not receive Amtrak service through the current Miami-Tampa-Orlando-Jacksonville line.

The 351-mile railway line, built by 19th-century tycoon Henry Flagler, ended passenger service in the mid-1960s.
..

Read more: Florida offers $118M for Jax-Miami passenger rail | South Florida Business Journal
Wow, that is amazinly cheap. I guess that might be due to most of the rail line/land already being there with little more needed to be done. Can not belive it has not already been done.
 
#3,167 ·
hmm you sure? thats what i thought... but the ramp looks like its going to go over SR826... wonder what affects it will have on traffic.
Yup! That's a FDOT D6 project...dunno the details of the project per se but that ramp that seems to go over SR 826 is the one that might send traffic SB SR 826...that makes sense?
 
#3,169 ·
LOL! Love the jpeg. Our Mass Transit System is not the worst, but far from adequate to modern world cities. We have become a world destination and have been for quite sometime. We still have no real sufficient Mass Public Transit. : (
I think the transit system in Miami sucks and it is terrible , try using it and you will see, the train doesn´t go anywhere , the buses take an hour to come by and stop at 8 :00pm to some points . it is a shame and a disgrace for a city that thinks that it is a world destination because to me aside from the beaches and the clubs Miami has little to offer .
 
#3,171 ·
I think the transit system in Miami sucks and it is terrible , try using it and you will see, the train doesn´t go anywhere , the buses take an hour to come by and stop at 8 :00pm to some points . it is a shame and a disgrace for a city that thinks that it is a world destination because to me aside from the beaches and the clubs Miami has little to offer .
I Know that's right, aside from the sleek miami buses, miami dade transit itself has jumped the shark.
 
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#3,172 ·
Perhaps this would push the governor towards HSR?

A Fiscally Conservative Approach is the Right One for Florida High-Speed Rail
http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2011/01/07/a-fiscally-conservative-approach-is-the-right-one-for-florida-high-speed-rail/#comments

» If the government invests billions in this fast train project, it is not unreasonable to expect the line to cover its operating costs.

The first phase of Florida’s high-speed rail plan is by no means perfect: It is too short to produce major time savings over car trips and it fails to serve a number of downtowns along its route. Nevertheless, its construction is now fully funded and when completed in 2015 as planned it will be America’s first new fast train line. From the perspective of the Obama Administration, the project’s limited scale is a major benefit, as its relatively small budget makes it more realizable in the short term and thus more likely to serve as a model for the development of a nationwide network of similar projects.

Getting the project’s financing and construction done right, then, is of essential concern to anyone interested in establishing a well-functioning intercity rail system in the United States. Making that happen will require a serious effort to keep costs in line. A new report from the Reason Foundation notes some useful ways to do so that are worth consideration.

New Florida Governor Rick Scott, a Republican who was elected in November 2010, has not yet indicated a serious commitment to the 84-mile project that would connect Downtown Tampa with Orlando Airport. Despite the U.S. government’s decision to grant the project almost $2.4 billion of the project’s $2.7 billion budget, some Florida politicians have recently signaled that they would decline the funds if given the chance, just as have the states of Ohio and Wisconsin. The governor has suggested that he will wait until the release of updated cost and ridership reports due in February or March to make a decision; Mr. Scott says he does not want to commit any more of the state’s taxpayer dollars to what he considers a superfluous scheme.

In order to receive the federal funds, the state agreed to pay at least $280 million for the construction of the project, which would be covered by the Florida Rail Enterprise, a publicly-funded authority.

The Reason Foundation, a libertarian think-tank, released a report this week by Wendell Cox that argues that the Florida rail project’s cost and ridership estimates are likely to be way off track and that the state’s assumption that the project will be operationally profitable is not necessarily correct. The line is expected to attract 2.4 million riders annually. The Reason Foundation, and Mr. Cox himself, have established themselves as against public transport and intercity rail projects everywhere in the nation.

The report, as Robert Cruickshank chronicles extensively, has its problems. It compares projected ridership on Florida’s line to that on the Acela Express, stating that it is unrealistic for the Sunshine State’s project to attract 2/3rds of the riders of the Northeast’s premier rail line. Of course, the study neglects to mention that other rail services in the Northeast, including Amtrak Regional and many commuter rail lines, attract many times that ridership. It compares Florida’s cost estimates to those California’s high-speed project, arguing that the Tampa-Orlando corridor will cost more than estimated, without noting that Florida’s right-of-way is already entirely reserved, unlike that of the Golden State. It suggests that the project will not be operationally profitable, despite the fact that nearly every high-speed rail project completed anywhere in the world has achieved as much. (In October 2010 YTD, for instance, the Acela Express made a profit of $17.7 million on total revenues of $45.7 million.)

That said, many of the report’s conclusions — that the state either abandon the project or develop a strict and comprehensive system by which to guarantee cost controls — are reasonable and should be implemented if Florida is to move forward.

Fundamentally, Mr. Cox argues that the state should enter into an agreement with a private builder and operator that would ensure that Florida taxpayers are not stuck with construction cost overruns or operations losses. If high-speed rail projects around the world have been operationally profitable, so should the Tampa-Orlando line, and private corporations should be able to accept the risk in buying train cars and beginning services, especially since the project’s construction costs are entirely covered by the federal and state governments.

The rail authority previously announced that it expects to award a build-operate contract to a private consortium later this year. Many foreign and domestic firms have already expressed their interest in the program.

The study notes five conditions: One, the winning private bidder should assume all risks for construction cost overruns; Two, the state should have to provide no operating subsidies; Three, any changes in the project’s design that would increase costs should have to approved directly by the governor; Four, the government should provide no guarantees on debt taken on by the private companies (which should be minimal considering that the government is paying for construction); and Five, the project should be built in stages to guarantee cost controls.

Apart from the fifth condition, which seems largely unnecessary if the other four are implemented, these conclusions amount to reasonable advice to the new governor. If Florida is set on contracting out operations to a private operator (and it has been for a long time), it should take steps to ensure that risks on construction and operations are absorbed by that entity rather than by taxpayers. Similar agreements have become standard abroad.

If Mr. Scott commits to these rules, he should have no fear about devoting (largely federal) government dollars to the project — giving up on the project before at least attempting to construct it under these guidelines would be a mistake. Considering the positive response by companies far and wide to the project thus far, getting a bidder to agree to these conditions should not present much of a difficulty.
 
#3,173 ·
From another article:

"It's understandable that some are dreaming of flashy high-speed rail trains carrying tourists and residents between the two cities," said Robert Poole, director of transportation at Reason Foundation and a transportation advisor to Governor Rick Scott's administration.

and a quote from the article above:

Mr. Scott says he does not want to commit any more of the state’s taxpayer dollars to what he considers a superfluous scheme.

The first quote is from his transportation advisor who is against building HSR & Scott's quote says it all about his feelings towards the project. I'm assuming that he's waiting for some report which hasn't been disclosed yet as to who is performing it as a reason to finally kill HSR in Florida. I can hear him say " Well folks the numbers just don't add up" as an excuse to finally end the hopes of HSR. You can thank the 61,500 morons in this state that gave him that many votes over Alex Sink to win the Governorship!
California now will get another $2.4 billion for their HSR.
 
#3,174 ·
mass transit sucks in miami, we need a rail that goes somwhere extends from EAST to WEST, especially the suburbs, DORAL, KENDALL, WESTCHESTER, CUTLER RIDGE, and an extension from north to south, would make traffic alot lighter on the roads, with people taking mass transit, also parking lots should be made at eevery station with reasonable prices. I dont know if this is possible but it is something the city NEEDS.
 
#3,175 ·
^ you mean like this?




This is was the original Metrorail expansion plans after the half cent sales tax was passed in November 2002. So far only the Earlington Heights to the MIC/ Airport Connector is under construction. The rest of the plan will probably never happen.
 
#3,177 ·
SkyDive this plan was the reason I voted to increase our sales tax in 2002. It was/is a visionary plan. As of now with county establishing a rail connection to the Airport the next logical expansion should be to South Beach. It's a 5 mile extension which perhaps the county & state could afford alone just like they did with the Earlington Heights/MIC expansion because I'm sure the FEDS aren't to enthusiastic with funding MDTA now.
I would imagine most tourists who get off at MIA and want to get to South Beach would use Metrorail if it was a seamless trip instead of transferring to a Bay Link LRT system.

Also another point is now that Metrorail will be linked to the Airport the entire system should be operating 24/7 just like MIA does.
 
#3,179 ·
Does this mean that the sales tax increase in 2002 was not enough to fund the construction of all the planned extensions?
The sales tax increase since it was implemented in 2002 has raised around $2 billion dollars in 8 years I believe ( somebody correct me me if I'm wrong). The issue was that the increase was solely to fund expansion projects for Metrorail with matching funds from the Federal Government.
What happened was the transit agency was so far in the red with operational costs from previous years that the County commission diverted funds from the increased monies provided by the additional sales tax to cover the defecit from previous years.
This really is short sightnedness since Metrorail which is a single heavy rail line carries around 70,000 people per day. What bus route route carries that many people per day?
Miami Dade transit carries around 330,000 people per day most of it on buses but 1/3rd. of those passengers use Metrorail or Metromover everday. A full 8 car Metrorail train can carry about 1300 passengers in one trip which doesn't seem to be a problem since I hear the trains are always packed now.

I'm tired of settling for less & Miami needs better than this. Unless we expand Metrorail our traffic will choke this city to death.

Signed,
A fustrated Miamian! :(
 
#3,180 ·
Bob, good post and you're correct with the particulars.

I would go a step further, however, and say that the county (led by Alex Penelas) probably intentionally misrepresented the tax to voters---to the point of outright lying.

The fact is there was NEVER any guarantee the feds would match, nor could that tax alone have come remotely close to funding the extensions. The county and MDTA knew this, but never presented the full picture to voters (who certainly can't be expected to follow the intricacies of transit funding).

In essence, I think they knew all along the likelihood that this would be a funding source for nothing more than general maintenance of the existing system, rather than the grandiose plans they sold to the public.

As for the future, Mertrorail expansion has become very unlikely. The feds are hostile to it (even more so with the political change in Washington) and even MDTA no longer pushes it in anything but a theoretical sense.

Again, this is why I've long argued that alternative, less costly initiatives (like light-rail) should be planned. That's where other cities are making headway and seeing federal dollars, not with heavy-rail, and it's a shame to see Miami standing on the outside looking in with that process.

I shared the same desire as you guys for the kind of Metrorail system once envisioned, but the reality is the odds of that happening are somewhere between the Easter Bunny turning out to be real and a comet landing in your backyard. It isn't going to happen. We BADLY need a transit agency that lives in the real world and gets to work on what IS possible.
 
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