Is Dubai Bankrupt??

Stylinexpat · November 22nd, 2009, 08:24 PM

Just read this article online from Bloomberg and after reading that and reading about the Japanese being unpaid Billions of dollars for their Metro work it leaves you wondering..

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...DPJCsiJA&pos=6

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aALc9BT5_B7w

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/57276...ork---official

My guess is that you will see another 50% haircut in property prices in Dubai. With financial problems looming that means banks won't be lending money for mortgages and with no banks lending along with oversupply of homes I am pretty sure we will see another big drop in property prices some time soon.

***AltinD*** · November 23rd, 2009, 12:12 AM

Not more then US & UK are ...

The-King · November 23rd, 2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stylinexpat

My guess is that you will see another 50% haircut in property prices in Dubai.

prices have started to rise again in some areas.

Whiteeclipse · November 23rd, 2009, 01:03 AM

Abu Dhabi will bail out Dubai.

Stylinexpat · November 23rd, 2009, 06:34 AM

Will take some time to stabilize means it will take some time for the dust to settle.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/57429...--central-bank

Stylinexpat · November 23rd, 2009, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltinD

Not more then US & UK are ...

The US is pretty screwed and I comment much on the UK as I have not been there recently. I have been to Dubai recently and to California and I'm sure about both of them.

Stylinexpat · November 23rd, 2009, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteeclipse

Abu Dhabi will bail out Dubai.

I believe they got money from Abu Dhabi twice already recently so if it weren't for Abu Dhabi things in Dubai would be far worse. The good thing for Dubai is that Abu Dhabi is right next door an won't let Dubai go under sort of like father and son situation to where the son is on a spending spree and the father bails his son out after he spends too much.

Stylinexpat · November 23rd, 2009, 08:48 AM

Did anyone here get reimbursed for their Amlak and tamweel shares?

Debt is climbing and without economic growth my guess is that debt will continue to steepen.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=au53RwOtvo08

ProudArabian · November 24th, 2009, 05:12 AM

Saudi arabia hasn't been effected that much from the financial break down

Stylinexpat · November 24th, 2009, 06:18 AM

Very true.. Saudi Arabia has a lot more money than Dubai has and a bigger local population. Dubai relies on expats (Most of which were basically either kicked out or forced out) and no oil money.

ProudArabian · November 24th, 2009, 06:26 AM

^ not to mention that saudi has a lot of local business rather then international enterprises

jorge antar · November 24th, 2009, 08:09 AM

Bloomberg

Dubai Surrenders Autonomy as Crisis Bolsters Oil-Rich Abu Dhabi
Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A

By Henry Meyer and Zainab Fattah

Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Until last month, a billboard at one of Dubai’s busiest roundabouts featured one photo, of Dubai ruler Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum. The new billboard says “Long live our Emirates union” and also shows United Arab Emirates President Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed al Nayhan.

Dubai’s financial woes have tamed the once-independent emirate and forced it closer to Abu Dhabi, which holds 90 percent of the U.A.E.’s oil. Sheikh Mohammed last week demoted three business aides and fired one. All had been pivotal in the debt-fueled expansion of past years, requiring Dubai’s rescue with a $10-billion loan from the U.A.E. central bank.

The global financial crisis that swept into Dubai last year not only put an end to a construction boom that saddled it with $80 billion of debt. It may also mark a turning point in the U.A.E.’s history toward a stronger central state, which investors say will make Dubai a more attractive destination by bolstering its creditworthiness.

“Abu Dhabi is pumping 2.5 million barrels a day of oil, of course you want it and Dubai to be working together,” said Emad Mostaque, a London-based Middle East equity-fund manager for Pictet Asset Management Ltd., which oversees more than $100 billion globally. “They don’t need to compete against each other,” he said in a phone interview.

Mostaque said he is positive on Arabtec Holding PJSC, Drake & Scull International PJSC and Depa Ltd, all Dubai-based construction companies expanding into Abu Dhabi.

Central Bank

Sheikh Mohammed in February turned to Abu Dhabi, holder of the world’s sixth-largest crude reserves, for a $10 billion bailout. The central bank, which has its headquarters in the country’s capital of Abu Dhabi, bought the entire bond issue.

Dubai’s ruler is seeking an extra injection of $10 billion by the end of the year, Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al-Maktoum, chairman of the emirate’s Supreme Fiscal Committee, said Nov. 16. The bond would get “majority government” participation, Mohammed Ali Alabbar, chairman of Emaar Properties PJSC and a member of the Dubai Executive Council, said Oct. 9.

The renewed financial lifeline comes as Dubai and its state-owned companies have to repay $15.8 billion of bonds and loans maturing this year, $9.2 billion in 2010, $19.8 billion in 2011 and $17.3 billion the following year, according to a Deutsche Bank AG report in August.

The sheikhdom raised $1.93 billion last month from the biggest sale of Islamic bonds in the Gulf Arab region this year. It was made possible by investors’ confidence that Abu Dhabi stands behind Dubai, said Tristan Cooper, a Dubai-based Middle East sovereign analyst at Moody’s Investors Service.

Islamic Bonds

“Assumed backing from Abu Dhabi and closer ties between the emirates bolsters investor confidence generally in Dubai and helps to attract foreign investment,” Cooper said by e-mail. Dubai’s $80 billion debts are equivalent to 100 percent of the city-state’s 2008 gross domestic product and nine times its 2008 revenue, according to Moody’s.

Since the start of the year, when Sheikh Mohammed launched a new Web site dedicated to his activities as prime minister of the U.A.E., he has been seen increasingly in public in that role. A front-page story on the Dubai-based Gulf News on Nov. 8 showed the Dubai ruler touring a new desert resort in Abu Dhabi’s Western Region with Sheikh Khalifa, who in addition to being president also leads Abu Dhabi.

The air show in Dubai this year was inaugurated by the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and Deputy Supreme Commander of the U.A.E. Armed Forces Sheikh Mohammed Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, brother of the president, alongside Sheikh Mohammed.

Dubai split from Abu Dhabi in 1833. It kept its independence thanks to the U.K., which pursued a policy of divide-and-rule in the Gulf emirates, according to the 2008 book “Dubai: The Vulnerability of Success,” by historian Christopher Davidson.

First Highway

Though Dubai grudgingly integrated with Abu Dhabi in 1971 in a federation of seven emirates, it maintained a separate army until 1996, the book said. Only in the mid-1990s was a highway built between Abu Dhabi and Dubai.

Sheikh Mohammed, 60, who became ruler of Dubai in 2006, accelerated his brother’s policy of diversifying the economy from dwindling oil supplies by transforming Dubai into a tourism and finance hub.

The emirate is building the world’s tallest tower and largest man-made islands in the shape of palm trees. This year it had to shelve plans to construct a new waterfront development the size of Hong Kong Island and “Dubailand,” a leisure park that would have been three times the size of Manhattan.

Home prices are down more than 50 percent from their peak in the third quarter of 2008, Deutsche Bank AG said on Nov. 5. Prices may drop as much as 30 percent more, UBS AG said Nov. 18.

‘Dire Straits’

“The whole strategy of diversification was a consequence of oil running out and wanting to keep their independence,” said Eckart Woertz, an economist at the Gulf Research Center in Dubai. “Now this diversification model is in dire straits and Abu Dhabi is the one that can help Dubai out.”

Dubai oil production began in the 1960s, reached a peak of about 350,000 barrels a day in the late 1980s and has now declined to about 80,000 barrels a day, said Dalton Garis, a professor at the Petroleum Institute, Abu Dhabi. The U.A.E. government says Dubai oil reserves will run out within 20 years.

On Nov. 9, Sheikh Mohammed said people who speculated about relations between Dubai and Abu Dhabi should “shut up,” at an investors’ conference in Dubai.

The ruling lines of both emirates are “the same family, not only that but the same tribe, the Bani Yas tribe,” he said. They “ruled many many tribes in the Arabian Peninsula for hundreds and hundreds of years.”

Eleven days later, the sheikh removed the governor of the Dubai International Financial Centre, Omar Bin Sulaiman, who had led efforts to transform Dubai into a Middle East finance hub. This came 24 hours after he dropped Mohammad al-Gergawi, Sultan Ahmed Bin Sulayem and Alabbar from the board of the Investment Corporation of Dubai, the emirate’s main holding company.

The centralization of the U.A.E. “could be the price Dubai has to pay for the Abu Dhabi bailout,” said Woertz. “This might cause some bruised egos here and there.”

To contact the reporters on this story: Henry Meyer in Dubai at hmeyer4@bloomberg.net; Zainab Fattah in Dubai at zfattah@bloomberg.net

gerald.d · November 24th, 2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorge antar

Bloomberg

Dubai Surrenders Autonomy as Crisis Bolsters Oil-Rich Abu Dhabi
Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A

By Henry Meyer and Zainab Fattah

Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Until last month, a billboard at one of Dubai’s busiest roundabouts featured one photo, of Dubai ruler Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum. The new billboard says “Long live our Emirates union” and also shows United Arab Emirates President Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed al Nayhan.

Anyone know which roundabout this is, and have a photo? I'm guessing possible Trade Center roundabout, but I haven't been down that way for a while.

***AltinD*** · November 24th, 2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProudArabian

Saudi arabia hasn't been effected that much from the financial break down

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stylinexpat

Very true.. Saudi Arabia has a lot more money than Dubai has and a bigger local population. Dubai relies on expats (Most of which were basically either kicked out or forced out) and no oil money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProudArabian

^ not to mention that saudi has a lot of local business rather then international enterprises

Yeah right ....

Check the multi-billion failure of the local businessman Saad ... but also Kingdom Holding that only recently returned to "proffit"

luv2bebrown · November 24th, 2009, 11:38 AM

I assumed the entire Meydaan project was on hold or something. Just saw it today. Damn that grandstand came out of nowhere! Should have known that bankruptcy or not, such a project would have never have been put on hold considering its something of a pet project of a certain very important individual.

Wannaberich · November 24th, 2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteeclipse

Abu Dhabi will bail out Dubai.

Really?When?

shagdash · November 25th, 2009, 12:21 AM

^
They already have.

Stylinexpat · November 25th, 2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AltinD

Yeah right ....

Check the multi-billion failure of the local businessman Saad ... but also Kingdom Holding that only recently returned to "proffit"

No one ever said that Saudi was crook free. Both Saudi Arabia and the UAE have their shares of local crooks. Did you forget what happened to Tamweel and Amlak along with their share holders??

***AltinD*** · November 25th, 2009, 11:00 AM

Maddoff was a crook, Saad was just a failed businessman

True Blue · November 25th, 2009, 05:08 PM

Is Dubai Bankrupt?

No it's just insolvent

Can't pay the bills as they fall due.

November 22nd, 2009, 08:24 PM	#1
Stylinexpat Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 62	Is Dubai Bankrupt?? Just read this article online from Bloomberg and after reading that and reading about the Japanese being unpaid Billions of dollars for their Metro work it leaves you wondering.. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...DPJCsiJA&pos=6 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aALc9BT5_B7w http://www.arabianbusiness.com/57276...ork---official My guess is that you will see another 50% haircut in property prices in Dubai. With financial problems looming that means banks won't be lending money for mortgages and with no banks lending along with oversupply of homes I am pretty sure we will see another big drop in property prices some time soon.

November 23rd, 2009, 12:12 AM	#2
*AltinD* Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tiranë / DUBAI / Vienna Posts: 23,181	Not more then US & UK are ... __________________ Turn me to stone / Do anything you want with me Cover my eyes / There's nothing more they need to see Turn me to stone / Before there's nothing left of me Make me a rock / And not what I appear to be ... STEREOTOMY

November 23rd, 2009, 01:03 AM	#4
Whiteeclipse Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida, USA/Moscow, RU Posts: 2,302	Abu Dhabi will bail out Dubai. __________________ Alyna-I saw Him English- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5lFl...eature=related Russian- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip0D9XuwaYY It's China's world, we just live in it.

November 24th, 2009, 08:09 AM	#12
jorge antar Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 35	Bloomberg Dubai Surrenders Autonomy as Crisis Bolsters Oil-Rich Abu Dhabi Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook\| Email \| Print \| A A A By Henry Meyer and Zainab Fattah Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Until last month, a billboard at one of Dubai’s busiest roundabouts featured one photo, of Dubai ruler Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum. The new billboard says “Long live our Emirates union” and also shows United Arab Emirates President Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed al Nayhan. Dubai’s financial woes have tamed the once-independent emirate and forced it closer to Abu Dhabi, which holds 90 percent of the U.A.E.’s oil. Sheikh Mohammed last week demoted three business aides and fired one. All had been pivotal in the debt-fueled expansion of past years, requiring Dubai’s rescue with a $10-billion loan from the U.A.E. central bank. The global financial crisis that swept into Dubai last year not only put an end to a construction boom that saddled it with $80 billion of debt. It may also mark a turning point in the U.A.E.’s history toward a stronger central state, which investors say will make Dubai a more attractive destination by bolstering its creditworthiness. “Abu Dhabi is pumping 2.5 million barrels a day of oil, of course you want it and Dubai to be working together,” said Emad Mostaque, a London-based Middle East equity-fund manager for Pictet Asset Management Ltd., which oversees more than $100 billion globally. “They don’t need to compete against each other,” he said in a phone interview. Mostaque said he is positive on Arabtec Holding PJSC, Drake & Scull International PJSC and Depa Ltd, all Dubai-based construction companies expanding into Abu Dhabi. Central Bank Sheikh Mohammed in February turned to Abu Dhabi, holder of the world’s sixth-largest crude reserves, for a $10 billion bailout. The central bank, which has its headquarters in the country’s capital of Abu Dhabi, bought the entire bond issue. Dubai’s ruler is seeking an extra injection of $10 billion by the end of the year, Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed Al-Maktoum, chairman of the emirate’s Supreme Fiscal Committee, said Nov. 16. The bond would get “majority government” participation, Mohammed Ali Alabbar, chairman of Emaar Properties PJSC and a member of the Dubai Executive Council, said Oct. 9. The renewed financial lifeline comes as Dubai and its state-owned companies have to repay $15.8 billion of bonds and loans maturing this year, $9.2 billion in 2010, $19.8 billion in 2011 and $17.3 billion the following year, according to a Deutsche Bank AG report in August. The sheikhdom raised $1.93 billion last month from the biggest sale of Islamic bonds in the Gulf Arab region this year. It was made possible by investors’ confidence that Abu Dhabi stands behind Dubai, said Tristan Cooper, a Dubai-based Middle East sovereign analyst at Moody’s Investors Service. Islamic Bonds “Assumed backing from Abu Dhabi and closer ties between the emirates bolsters investor confidence generally in Dubai and helps to attract foreign investment,” Cooper said by e-mail. Dubai’s $80 billion debts are equivalent to 100 percent of the city-state’s 2008 gross domestic product and nine times its 2008 revenue, according to Moody’s. Since the start of the year, when Sheikh Mohammed launched a new Web site dedicated to his activities as prime minister of the U.A.E., he has been seen increasingly in public in that role. A front-page story on the Dubai-based Gulf News on Nov. 8 showed the Dubai ruler touring a new desert resort in Abu Dhabi’s Western Region with Sheikh Khalifa, who in addition to being president also leads Abu Dhabi. The air show in Dubai this year was inaugurated by the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and Deputy Supreme Commander of the U.A.E. Armed Forces Sheikh Mohammed Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, brother of the president, alongside Sheikh Mohammed. Dubai split from Abu Dhabi in 1833. It kept its independence thanks to the U.K., which pursued a policy of divide-and-rule in the Gulf emirates, according to the 2008 book “Dubai: The Vulnerability of Success,” by historian Christopher Davidson. First Highway Though Dubai grudgingly integrated with Abu Dhabi in 1971 in a federation of seven emirates, it maintained a separate army until 1996, the book said. Only in the mid-1990s was a highway built between Abu Dhabi and Dubai. Sheikh Mohammed, 60, who became ruler of Dubai in 2006, accelerated his brother’s policy of diversifying the economy from dwindling oil supplies by transforming Dubai into a tourism and finance hub. The emirate is building the world’s tallest tower and largest man-made islands in the shape of palm trees. This year it had to shelve plans to construct a new waterfront development the size of Hong Kong Island and “Dubailand,” a leisure park that would have been three times the size of Manhattan. Home prices are down more than 50 percent from their peak in the third quarter of 2008, Deutsche Bank AG said on Nov. 5. Prices may drop as much as 30 percent more, UBS AG said Nov. 18. ‘Dire Straits’ “The whole strategy of diversification was a consequence of oil running out and wanting to keep their independence,” said Eckart Woertz, an economist at the Gulf Research Center in Dubai. “Now this diversification model is in dire straits and Abu Dhabi is the one that can help Dubai out.” Dubai oil production began in the 1960s, reached a peak of about 350,000 barrels a day in the late 1980s and has now declined to about 80,000 barrels a day, said Dalton Garis, a professor at the Petroleum Institute, Abu Dhabi. The U.A.E. government says Dubai oil reserves will run out within 20 years. On Nov. 9, Sheikh Mohammed said people who speculated about relations between Dubai and Abu Dhabi should “shut up,” at an investors’ conference in Dubai. The ruling lines of both emirates are “the same family, not only that but the same tribe, the Bani Yas tribe,” he said. They “ruled many many tribes in the Arabian Peninsula for hundreds and hundreds of years.” Eleven days later, the sheikh removed the governor of the Dubai International Financial Centre, Omar Bin Sulaiman, who had led efforts to transform Dubai into a Middle East finance hub. This came 24 hours after he dropped Mohammad al-Gergawi, Sultan Ahmed Bin Sulayem and Alabbar from the board of the Investment Corporation of Dubai, the emirate’s main holding company. The centralization of the U.A.E. “could be the price Dubai has to pay for the Abu Dhabi bailout,” said Woertz. “This might cause some bruised egos here and there.” To contact the reporters on this story: Henry Meyer in Dubai at hmeyer4@bloomberg.net; Zainab Fattah in Dubai at zfattah@bloomberg.net __________________ http://www.dubai.cl

November 24th, 2009, 11:38 AM	#15
luv2bebrown Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Unknown Posts: 2,060	I assumed the entire Meydaan project was on hold or something. Just saw it today. Damn that grandstand came out of nowhere! Should have known that bankruptcy or not, such a project would have never have been put on hold considering its something of a pet project of a certain very important individual. __________________ Check out some Dubai street scenes

November 23rd, 2009, 06:34 AM	#5
Stylinexpat Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 62	Will take some time to stabilize means it will take some time for the dust to settle. http://www.arabianbusiness.com/57429...--central-bank

November 23rd, 2009, 08:48 AM	#8
Stylinexpat Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 62	Did anyone here get reimbursed for their Amlak and tamweel shares? Debt is climbing and without economic growth my guess is that debt will continue to steepen. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=au53RwOtvo08

November 24th, 2009, 05:12 AM	#9
ProudArabian Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 384	Saudi arabia hasn't been effected that much from the financial break down

November 24th, 2009, 06:18 AM	#10
Stylinexpat Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 62	Very true.. Saudi Arabia has a lot more money than Dubai has and a bigger local population. Dubai relies on expats (Most of which were basically either kicked out or forced out) and no oil money.

November 24th, 2009, 06:26 AM	#11
ProudArabian Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 384	^ not to mention that saudi has a lot of local business rather then international enterprises

November 25th, 2009, 12:21 AM	#17
shagdash Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Dubai Posts: 209	^ They already have.

November 25th, 2009, 11:00 AM	#19
*AltinD* Moderator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tiranë / DUBAI / Vienna Posts: 23,181	Maddoff was a crook, Saad was just a failed businessman __________________ Turn me to stone / Do anything you want with me Cover my eyes / There's nothing more they need to see Turn me to stone / Before there's nothing left of me Make me a rock / And not what I appear to be ... STEREOTOMY

November 25th, 2009, 05:08 PM	#20
True Blue Champions Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,024	Is Dubai Bankrupt? No it's just insolvent Can't pay the bills as they fall due. __________________ "people will judge you on what you can build, not on what you can destroy". Barack Obama 20th January 2009.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode