search the site
 daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > OZScrapers > Urban Spaces > Transportation

Transportation Trains, planes and automobiles.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 19th, 2017, 03:06 PM   #9401
Pakenhamtrain
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 47
Likes (Received): 28

Quote:
Originally Posted by BleakCity View Post
But truck drivers also need to possess skills in vehicle handling and reversing, operation and maintenance on a variety of different trucks, proper loading and securing of freight, route and time management, etc. Sure, a train driver needs to learn about signalling systems and safeworking, but it's not rocket science, and a train only moves in one dimension rather than two.

However whilst one can legally operate a heavy combination truck on the roads after a few days of training and passing the drive test, it can take over 18 months to certify a train driver to operate solo. Consequently we end up with shortages, high staff costs, long lead in times for upgrades, and the biggest problem, being held ransom by unions that use this inflexibility as a bargaining chip despite working conditions and salaries well beyond the demands of the actual position.

Hence why automation is so great, as it escapes the union chokehold.
You bring up trucks. Here's the licenceing requiements:
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/lice...nce-categories
You have to have experience driving on a car license before you go near a truck.
To get that car license you need to drive with a qualified driver next to you and recommended you do it on all roads and all conditions.

Now to bring it back to trains a trainee driver is essentially on his L plates with a qualified driver(OJT) until he has the relevant experience and that's only after he's passed the relevent steps beforehand.


But I go back to my point earlier. A train is a very different beast to a truck/bus/car/road vehicle.
Any idiot can throw a lever one way to make the train move and stop. Doing it safely and correctly however is a totally different matter all together. Only training and experience can teach you that.
Pakenhamtrain no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 19th, 2017, 03:11 PM   #9402
theskier
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 318
Likes (Received): 426

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pakenhamtrain View Post
You bring up trucks. Here's the licenceing requiements:
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/lice...nce-categories
You have to have experience driving on a car license before you go near a truck.
To get that car license you need to drive with a qualified driver next to you and recommended you do it on all roads and all conditions.

Now to bring it back to trains a trainee driver is essentially on his L plates with a qualified driver(OJT) until he has the relevant experience and that's only after he's passed the relevent steps beforehand.


But I go back to my point earlier. A train is a very different beast to a truck/bus/car/road vehicle.
Any idiot can throw a lever one way to make the train move and stop. Doing it safely and correctly however is a totally different matter all together. Only training and experience can teach you that.
which is why a computer should be doing it
__________________

HenryX, KJBrissy, Airvan00, marki, pintpot and 3 others liked this post
theskier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2017, 10:11 PM   #9403
Eco-rat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,083
Likes (Received): 1002

Exactly. Lost on Pakenhamtrain though
Eco-rat no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 03:04 AM   #9404
L2
Train to bintang land
 
L2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kuta, Bali, Indonesia
Posts: 5,562
Likes (Received): 370

I rode on one of these grubby old things last month, which are as old as those Hitachi trains that Melbourne dumped a few years ago, and surprisingly it was driven by a computer


Can't ever imagine full driverless here but ATC would seem logical.
__________________
L2 comes between L1 and L3
L2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 05:21 AM   #9405
L2
Train to bintang land
 
L2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kuta, Bali, Indonesia
Posts: 5,562
Likes (Received): 370

Hurstbridge's new bus service started yesterday. It exists to suppelement the train service for Diamond Creek, Wattle Glen and Hurstbridge, so that those stations essentially have a 20 minute off-peak and 10 minute peak service between the train and the bus, which connects with the trains that don't go there.

https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/route/view/11575

Not surprising that it's a marginal electorate. There are many more people using the trains up here in Diggers and I don't see them putting on any buses up here. If you miss the train your only option is to wait 40 minutes for the next one!

L2 who thinks that now this bus route exists, they ought to just stop running the choo choo service
__________________
L2 comes between L1 and L3
L2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2017, 02:43 PM   #9406
marki
Moon Transit
 
marki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 1,689
Likes (Received): 582

Its time for discussion here about get out of the crowded stuffy trains and get some cool fresh air on a ferry.

I wonder if myki will work on the new ferry, or is that just asking too much.

Maybe add capacity on the Stony Point line too.

More Island Services With New Ferry
Media Release, Minister for Public Transport, 23 June 2017
http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/more-i...ith-new-ferry/

Quote:
The Andrews Labor Government is delivering more frequent, reliable ferry services between the mainland and French and Phillip Islands.

Minister for Public Transport Jacinta Allan announced today that Searoad Ferries (trading as Western Port Ferries) has been awarded the contract to run the Western Port Ferry Service between French Island, Phillip Island and Stony Point. The new contract will boost the number of services by more than 30 per cent, including a new daily service directly from Stony Point to Phillip Island. The additional services will start in September and coincide with the introduction of a brand new vessel to the route, which has capacity for 95 passengers and better luggage storage.

Searoad Ferries is a well-established ferry operator, who also run the car ferry service between Queenscliff and Sorrento. They have been contracted to run the service for five years from 1 July 2017. The Western Port Ferry Service currently carries around 32,000 passengers a year, with that number expected to rise under the new operator.

Minister for Public Transport Jacinta Allan said: “We’re making sure locals have more reliable and regular services from French Island, Phillip Island and Stony Point.” “This boost to services is not only good for local residents, but also for the thousands of visitors to these islands each year.”

Searoad Ferries CEO Matt McDonald said: “This is an exciting opportunity for Searoad Ferries. We look forward to providing a safe and reliable service that meets the needs of the local communities through our new Western Port Ferries operation.”
__________________
-----------------------------

Too much time alone on ur keyboard ... Lets meetup instead

andymillman liked this post
marki no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2017, 03:42 PM   #9407
BleakCity
̙͈̩ͫ̎Ż̙̟̜̌ͫ́̒Hwhateͧ ̃̌va
 
BleakCity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 50͟҉0͏ ̵̧M͠҉ì͜͡l̢͢e͢s҉ 
Posts: 3,493
Likes (Received): 542

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pakenhamtrain
You bring up trucks. Here's the licenceing requiements:
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/lice...nce-categories
You have to have experience driving on a car license before you go near a truck.
To get that car license you need to drive with a qualified driver next to you and recommended you do it on all roads and all conditions.

Now to bring it back to trains a trainee driver is essentially on his L plates with a qualified driver(OJT) until he has the relevant experience and that's only after he's passed the relevent steps beforehand.
I've got a heavy combination licence.

Learning to drive a car over 120 hours would only take a month full time, not 18 months as per train drivers.
BleakCity no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2017, 09:57 AM   #9408
Tyson
Registered User
 
Tyson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,592
Likes (Received): 442

Why is the government wasting time and money on this?
Fix in the pipeline for rail bottleneck that sends Altona travellers loopy

Wouldn't it be better to just rebuild Galvin and/or Paisley with a nice big park and ride? Replace the Altona loop with a frequent and reliable bus connection. There must be barely 10,000 people in that little pocket - how does that even justify a grade separation? Especially dual viaducts that will merge back into single line anyway?
__________________
"Not all those who wander are lost."
- J.R.R. Tolkien

Eco-rat, Mischk liked this post
Tyson no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2017, 10:32 AM   #9409
L2
Train to bintang land
 
L2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kuta, Bali, Indonesia
Posts: 5,562
Likes (Received): 370

Not sure, the whinges of locals get a bit of media coverage but there's no votes in it.

Now that they're pointlessly extending the shuttles to the CBD, they're essentially operating a whole 35 minute long line, running every 20 minutes which probably needs about 5 train sets to run it, just for one suburb of 10000 people who barely use their service

(There's already 6 trains an hour from FSS to Newport bound for the other two branches, so the the addition of Laverton services is excessive)

For comparison, that's the same number of trains and their resultant operating costs as are needed to run the Sandringham line.
__________________
L2 comes between L1 and L3
L2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2017, 12:37 PM   #9410
John.S
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 97
Likes (Received): 30

Surely this is the time to extend and duplicate the Altona Loop towards Point Cook and make it a proper branch line. Justifies the duplication and frees up the roads between Point Cook and the Freeway.
John.S no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2017, 01:21 PM   #9411
KJBrissy
...........
 
KJBrissy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 16,517
Likes (Received): 3244

Nah. Build MM2 and turn Altona to Footscray into light rail
__________________
“When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter. Now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality.”

pdoff liked this post
KJBrissy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2017, 02:26 PM   #9412
John.S
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 97
Likes (Received): 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by KJBrissy View Post
Nah. Build MM2 and turn Altona to Footscray into light rail
What do you plan on doing with the tracks between Footscray and Newport? A point cook line would utilise it nicely, and could be fully segregated from the werribee line via MM2
John.S no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2017, 11:45 PM   #9413
KJBrissy
...........
 
KJBrissy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 16,517
Likes (Received): 3244

Did I not say what I'd do in my comment?

Plus there is no room in Point Cook to fit the line.
__________________
“When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter. Now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality.”
KJBrissy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2017, 02:37 AM   #9414
pdoff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 400
Likes (Received): 219

Quote:
Originally Posted by John.S View Post
What do you plan on doing with the tracks between Footscray and Newport?
They would also continue to be used by the Williamstown line.

If it's to be converted to light rail then they should seriously look at extending it North past Footscray to Highpoint, maybe even Moonee Ponds (replacing the 82). If the airport rail also goes via the Highpoint option with a few other stops along the way, with the MM2 you suddenly have a nice little network in the west.
pdoff no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2017, 03:02 AM   #9415
pdoff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 400
Likes (Received): 219

Quote:
Originally Posted by KJBrissy View Post
Plus there is no room in Point Cook to fit the line.
It would need to go underground but Point Cook has too many things going against it to justify that cost alone:

a) It's difficult to see any future benefits by extending the line further south given the air-base and the Werribee Irrigation district.
b) It's also very low density so it's difficult to know where to put station(s) that would capture sufficient walk-up passengers and, as KJB said, there's little room so where would you put a surface car-park? The time to procure parking sites was 5 years ago but now the obvious sites are gone and Point Cook's close to full.

Pros are if it was cut and cover along Sneydes Road and a Werribee East AEC heavy rail service followed this alignment instead of diverting the existing Werribee line, and with a strong bus service feeding it, I guess it could work. There's also 20,000 people in Altona Meadows that could justify a station there.
pdoff no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2017, 04:33 AM   #9416
eugenius
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Melbourne / Perth / Mackay / Coventry / Sheffield / Brussels / Birkenhead
Posts: 1,420
Likes (Received): 663

^ Skyrail. Westonia station to laverton Creek, crossing just north of Altona Sports Centre. Then either.... skyrail along centre of Queen St / Central Boulevard to Skehan Blvd, the SW over Skleton Creek, along Seabrook Linear Reserve and then Skyrail down Point Cook Road to Sanctuary Lakes Shopping Centre; or south from Altona Sports Centre, following the current edge of developments / edge of Cheetham Wetlands, cross Skeleton Creek and then skyrail along Saltwater Promenade. Or may be better as light rail (reduce costs of Point Cook Road / Queen St sections) - with Altona Loop also converted to Light Rail.
eugenius no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2017, 04:38 AM   #9417
KJBrissy
...........
 
KJBrissy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 16,517
Likes (Received): 3244

Would never get up and IMO shouldn't. What a blight.

If you want to service Point Cook better, just spur a line off nearby to the Freeway bypass and ensure high frequency buses connect with the stations.


Or maybe just massively increase the frequency and coverage of the existing buses that connect to the station.
__________________
“When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter. Now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality.”
KJBrissy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2017, 05:46 AM   #9418
Planks & Sticks
Rabid Furry Skier
 
Planks & Sticks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mulbuhn
Posts: 3,072
Likes (Received): 771

Quote:
Originally Posted by KJBrissy View Post
Would never get up and IMO shouldn't. What a blight.

If you want to service Point Cook better, just spur a line off nearby to the Freeway bypass and ensure high frequency buses connect with the stations.


Or maybe just massively increase the frequency and coverage of the existing buses that connect to the station.
The lack of bus lanes also seriously impacts the performance of the buses (from what I've heard from a friend who lived in that area). If they can give a visual image of a bus smoothly gliding through the gridlock, it might encourage a lot of people to switch from cars to buses. Unfortunately politicians rarely like the idea of "stealing" an existing lane to convert it into a bus lane, or lack the will to set aside a budget to widen the road for bus lanes.
Planks & Sticks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2017, 05:49 AM   #9419
KJBrissy
...........
 
KJBrissy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 16,517
Likes (Received): 3244

Completely agree P&S.

Also, the Freeway and rail bridges create a huge barrier that bridging becomes expensive.
__________________
“When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter. Now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality.”
KJBrissy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2017, 05:54 AM   #9420
pdoff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 400
Likes (Received): 219

Quote:
Originally Posted by Planks & Sticks View Post
The lack of bus lanes also seriously impacts the performance of the buses (from what I've heard from a friend who lived in that area). If they can give a visual image of a bus smoothly gliding through the gridlock, it might encourage a lot of people to switch from cars to buses. Unfortunately politicians rarely like the idea of "stealing" an existing lane to convert it into a bus lane, or lack the will to set aside a budget to widen the road for bus lanes.
The Point Cook side of Palmers Road now has a second lane for northbound traffic which is a bus/transit lane (vehicles with more than 2 passengers during peak). Should help PT appeal to Williams Landing station somewhat.
pdoff no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
mandurahboyz

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu