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Old December 23rd, 2012, 05:47 PM   #101
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Shit, that sucks.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 08:20 PM   #102
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I wonder how long before we see the Amscot lot bought out as well.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 08:36 PM   #103
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Probably in a couple weeks.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 10:41 PM   #104
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I hope that UT does purchase the Amscott property. Does anybody in their right mind think that area looks better with an Amscott or some nasty convenient store there? While some my quibble with the fencing, the north side of Kennedy has a vastly improved aesthetic appeal since UT started expanding.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 05:50 PM   #105
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Aesthetically, it is better. Functionally, it is worse. We should be able to have both.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 10:06 PM   #106
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I'm not sure that I would consider an impenetrable iron fence to be better looking.
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Old December 25th, 2012, 04:29 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvHighrisers View Post
I hope that UT does purchase the Amscott property. Does anybody in their right mind think that area looks better with an Amscott or some nasty convenient store there? While some my quibble with the fencing, the north side of Kennedy has a vastly improved aesthetic appeal since UT started expanding.
So we should settle for mediocre because UT doesn't know what proper urban design is? No retail in student housing I can deal with. Fencing doesn't need to exist except if keeping everything out, which it isn't. Retail in a parking garage isn't too much to ask for.
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Old December 25th, 2012, 04:40 AM   #108
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Better yet, how about if UT stayed a block off of Kennedy in the first place?
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Old December 26th, 2012, 06:16 AM   #109
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So we should settle for mediocre because UT doesn't know what proper urban design is? No retail in student housing I can deal with. Fencing doesn't need to exist except if keeping everything out, which it isn't. Retail in a parking garage isn't too much to ask for.
While I am the first to say Tampa screws many things up (including the lacrosse field) the complaints about buildings and parking garages are a bit odd. I can't think of any university that has all that and no fence, including Harvard in the middle of Cambridge.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 07:19 AM   #110
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I think a good example of Universities including retail would be USF St.Pete with the Barnes & Noble in the base of the parking garage. It isn't behind a fence, but open for the rest of the community to use. USFSP is a public university though, most publics don't have fences.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 08:52 AM   #111
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While I am the first to say Tampa screws many things up (including the lacrosse field) the complaints about buildings and parking garages are a bit odd. I can't think of any university that has all that and no fence, including Harvard in the middle of Cambridge.
How about BU on the other side of the Charles?
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Old December 26th, 2012, 02:03 PM   #112
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I'll grant you that one, and now that I think of it a few other but none have normal campuses and none are really what I would want to see in the UT spot. Though even Columbia has some fences and looks inward
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Old December 26th, 2012, 02:22 PM   #113
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Yeah I think expectations on what a college campus looks like always hits the reality of the parents of teenagers shelling out a quarter of a million dollars. I went to school in the Upper West Side and we were fenced in and it's all the parents wanted to talk about -- and none of our students had gotten shot nearby.

The lacrosse field on Kennedy is ridiculous, but the problem IMHO isn't that the north side of Kennedy is so bad it's the south side is just as bad with a new fenced in parking lot and soon fenced in school. The loss is that the southern edge is as vibrant as it should be with 5k well off or middle class young adults running around. OxEx is a great start, but sadly nothing can be done about the next three blocks after Mise En Place.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 03:25 PM   #114
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But the two go hand-in-hand. If you start with bad development, it's likely you're going to end up with bad development... especially with our city's code and spineless city council.

If UT had installed retail from the get-go, you would have several thousand college students staying in the area rather than traversing it, you'd have downtown workers and residents crossing the river, and you'd potentially have neighbors to the south and west venturing over. So, with more interest and more vibrant neighborhood, instead of seeing a private school, you might see a mixed-use development. Instead of a fenced-in parking lot, you might see something that better capitalizes on the pedestrian traffic.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 03:55 PM   #115
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The lacrosse field on Kennedy is ridiculous, but the problem IMHO isn't that the north side of Kennedy is so bad it's the south side is just as bad with a new fenced in parking lot and soon fenced in school. The loss is that the southern edge is as vibrant as it should be with 5k well off or middle class young adults running around. OxEx is a great start, but sadly nothing can be done about the next three blocks after Mise En Place.
Completely agree. It is not for the school to build retail for all. The real question is why no one else has built it for a school with 5-7000 students, many of whom live there. Crappy planning and poor decisions by developers.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #116
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Kinda hard to blame developers for the sorry state of the Kennedy Blvd corridor, when the corridor supposedly has binding design standards which would over time fix what we're all complaining about... Yet politically connected institutions like UT and TGH are allowed to waive the standards at will, while all other landowners are stuck obeying them... Who on Earth would look at what's going on along Kennedy Blvd near DT and invest? For years, it's been nobody but the OE redevelopment, which got so many tax credits, it might as well be called philanthropic.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 06:41 PM   #117
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Quote:
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Completely agree. It is not for the school to build retail for all. The real question is why no one else has built it for a school with 5-7000 students, many of whom live there. Crappy planning and poor decisions by developers.
It doesn't help that the school will fight tooth and nail if you try and open a business that sells alcohol. That cuts out most restaurants, which would be the main draw. UT is plenty happy to sell their students food and be able to tell mom and dad that there aren't any bars near by.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 07:19 PM   #118
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Quote:
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Kinda hard to blame developers for the sorry state of the Kennedy Blvd corridor, when the corridor supposedly has binding design standards which would over time fix what we're all complaining about... Yet politically connected institutions like UT and TGH are allowed to waive the standards at will, while all other landowners are stuck obeying them... Who on Earth would look at what's going on along Kennedy Blvd near DT and invest? For years, it's been nobody but the OE redevelopment, which got so many tax credits, it might as well be called philanthropic.
I have a problem with all the TGH stuff clogging up that area, but no one is following any design rules. Just drive down the road. If there are any rules, they suck.

In terms of building retail, yea, that is a developer's job. You can blame the city, too. Like I said: Crappy planning and poor decisions by developers.

As for bars, you might want to consider that there are other connected people with an interest in not having bars near UT on Kennedy.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 08:36 PM   #119
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Everyone is right, UT, TGH, polically connected individuals, & others are all to blame. But the city and city council needs to start enforcing rules and approving liquor licenses as well. But my guess is you'll see more and more UT students coming downtown than people downtown going to Kennedy for years to come because of that.

But I have to say the idea that UT would have retail is very unlikely. Even GW in DC took decades to have retail open to the public in an area that needed it. Less fencing sure, but retail for the public in dorms that students use is a garunteed lawsuit & loss of money that very few urban US schools the size of UT have.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 09:12 PM   #120
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I still can't figure out where all of you are getting this notion that in its quest to expand, that UT is entitled to all land fronting Kennedy Blvd... and that once they possess it, they no longer have to obey the laws everyone else does.

Where does it say that UT MUST acquire all land right up to Kennedy, and even across Kennedy in some places? Why couldn't they stop at North A?
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