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Old May 21st, 2014, 10:32 PM   #101
Jasonhouse
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So we pretty much figured that one out... 3 floors, around 40 or so units.

Meh... Like Brian said, at least they will generally be owner occupied... But then again, so is almost all of the existing housing stock surrounding the site.
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Old May 22nd, 2014, 02:47 PM   #102
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So we pretty much figured that one out... 3 floors, around 40 or so units.

Meh... Like Brian said, at least they will generally be owner occupied... But then again, so is almost all of the existing housing stock surrounding the site.
It would be great to see the transition of the existing residential homes between here and DT into larger parcels and/or convert to 2 - 3 story homes.

This is the closest single family home area to DT and now that DT is becoming a desired place to live, you would think this would be the next transition besides Tampa Heights coming in the next 5- 10 years.

You see this happening all over South Tampa and some places north of Kennedy already near Howard.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 02:55 PM   #103
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[IMG][/IMG]




Above are photos of the town-home construction that has begun. This area still needs a lot of infill and street work to clean it up. This is the beginning for sure and will be a nice residential area in about 5 more years.

Below are some other developments I was not expecting to see when passing by the southern edge of NOHO. Its great that they are trying to capture that old Florida historic look. Like homes built in 1920, open porches and 2 story using some character in the construction. The lack of open eves and details on the roof are annoying to see but much better then the modern style construction in this area.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old July 10th, 2014, 05:00 PM   #104
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^That's Tampa's version of urban intensification... single family homes.

At this point, there is zero chance what is being built in NoHo leads to a vibrant urban neighborhood. The city isn't investing a dime, and developers clearly aren't including any features or designs elements beyond the bare minimum required by law. It's primary allure will be its proximity to other more complete neighborhoods, which residents will have to drive to. Might as well live in the sticks and save the money, cuz it's gonna basically be the same lifestyle where your car runs your life.

NoHo could very well turn out for the better, but knowing Tampa, I wouldn't hold my breath. Look how much they **** up the city's other urbanized areas.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 05:09 PM   #105
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Well, I am not so sure that this construction is not what that area needs. There are plenty of single family homes to the east of this and there should be some transition from the larger mulitfamily projects such as NOHO and Vintage.

The real issue here would be the industrial components that litter the area. Second would be the lack of useful sidewalks and landscaping. I guess if your idea of a great city is a sea of very dense mid to high rise buildings than you should be furious.

I see this as welcome development in an otherwise blighted area. I hope the new construction continues and existing single family homes see some new life too. There are some really nice older homes and perhaps some more will be replaced with newer more expensive 2 story homes as seen in South Tampa.

When we traveled to NYC and passed through Queens, this is very much the same look. Now we can say that is all wrong but isn't NYC the place to model after? Not every single area needs to be the same and between Westshore and DT south of 275 is a great place to see new single family homes IMO, at least 2 story which for Florida is not very common and reminiscent to the early 1920's. If these were single story 3/2/2 I would not be so sure these are a good fit. Besides, I believe they only have a short depth in property and probably could not effectively built much more. These are going to look great, the focus here should be on the brown-fields, empty buildings, vacant land and the ole commercial buildings.

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Old July 10th, 2014, 06:56 PM   #106
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^Every last single family home in that entire neighborhood should eventually be torn down and replaced with multi-family.

Queens is an outlying area, this is 1/2 a mile from downtown. Queens also doesn't have to worry about adding over 500,000 new residents in the next 25 years. Hillsborough County does.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 06:59 PM   #107
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Not every single area needs to be the same and between Westshore and DT south of 275 is a great place to see new single family homes IMO
You have got to be kidding me. I know you don't know squat about urban planning, but damn dude, you think Tampa should further suburbanize the singlemost attractive corridor in the entire region for urban intensification?

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Old July 10th, 2014, 09:32 PM   #108
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You have got to be kidding me. I know you don't know squat about urban planning, but damn dude, you think Tampa should further suburbanize the singlemost attractive corridor in the entire region for urban intensification?


The Townhomes and the 2 story are not what you see in the suburban neighborhoods except in the most expensive area that have the 2 story style single family homes. Those are still suburban based on gated entries and not in city block formats.

I disagree that the entire area of North Hyde Park should be Mid-rise buildings. There is something to be said for single family homes in downtown areas. Take a look at Old North East in downtown St Pete, just a few blocks from Central, 5 to be exact, you are in the neighborhood full of homes. The difference isn't that they are single family, its the size and shape of the lot, proximity between the homes and the fact they are on city blocks.

My wife and I wanted to move there back in 2008 but even then they homes were demanding too much for the fixer uppers we wanted. Even before you get to NE you start to see some of the old homes / buildings still standing.

You can refer all you want to 'planning' but there are as many opinions as there are people. I happen to like the city homes and think it not only adds character, but some variety too. We live walking distance to downtown Clearwater and the beach. Our home is a 2 story and the homes around are similar with deep narrow lots. That is much different than the suburban neighborhoods isolated by gates and often on curved roads winding throughout.

City blocks with old homes are found near down-towns in every city I have been too, not sure how these are not a good fit in that area. Its great that there are some dense residential developments nearby but certainly your not going throw the baby out with the bath water and remove all these older homes. Many of those older homes have great character and will most likely see better days and the desire to move into this area returns. Perhaps younger urbanites will be able to afford them were as they could not afford a home in South Tampa without being down by Interbay. Perhaps a good portion will be replaced with larger homes that have character. That is ok with me too.

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Old July 10th, 2014, 09:46 PM   #109
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^Every last single family home in that entire neighborhood should eventually be torn down and replaced with multi-family.

Queens is an outlying area, this is 1/2 a mile from downtown. Queens also doesn't have to worry about adding over 500,000 new residents in the next 25 years. Hillsborough County does.
Queens is not an outlying area, its a mile or two from Manhattan not even if your don't count the bridge. Its part of the city, of course not Manhattan but its every bit a part of the city. Those homes are stacked like cigars in a box, they are close enough to touch each other.

The point was, even there the density is hard to get stations close enough to walk to. Rail is much easier to accommodate larger buildings of multiple stories. So unless we see a hurricane wipe out most of Tampa and have it replaced with 8 story mid-rises end to end, there is hardly going to be a feasible rail layout anytime soon. I still look forward to rail in Tampa either way.

Brandon, Lutz, Pasco counties are outlying areas to Tampa.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 10:02 PM   #110
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Queens is to NYC as Town N Country is to Tampa. A largely residential area next to the airport that is several miles from downtown, but adjacent to an even larger employment center (Midtown).

NoHo in Tampa would pretty much be the locational equivalent of NYC's Noho. Adjacent to downtown, next to a university, and directly in between downtown and the region's largest employment center.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 10:14 PM   #111
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Queens is to NYC as Town N Country is to Tampa. A largely residential area next to the airport that is several miles from downtown, but adjacent to an even larger employment center (Midtown).

NoHo in Tampa would pretty much be the locational equivalent of NYC's Noho. Adjacent to downtown, next to a university, and directly in between downtown and the region's largest employment center.
I see it like this, TIA is LaGuardia, Downtown Tampa is Manhattan, the river is the river and NOHO is Queens, at least for now.

Hardly can compare these based on geography but regardless, I stick with my point that the residential being built is fine, the only problem as far as I am concerned was mentioned as the old commercial buildings, lack of sidewalks and landscaping throughout this area.

I also don't feel the need to be a dictator in the cities development and unlike the liberal left that claims to be 'open minded' promoting free love and all that horse shit, I believe in real freedom for owners, developers to decide what is best for their investment using the economy over the ideals of a few that really shouldn't have a say anyways.

How would you are anyone feel to have some blow hard that lives no where near you complaining about your house, your paint, the roof, even what you do inside your home. Its seems ridiculous to express such a controlling attitude in development. I am all for dense tall buildings and seeing the city grow, but gees man, some people here need to get a grip on reality.
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Old July 10th, 2014, 11:47 PM   #112
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Townhomes in areas like NOHO is fine, considering the architecture and what the development offers. But not single family homes. Tampa hasn't changed obviously.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 01:10 AM   #113
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Brian thanks for the pics but with the exception of the brick road, it looks like typical suburbia.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 02:40 PM   #114
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Go to North East or Bayshore area of Hyde Park between Swann and Bayshore. That is close to Downtown and the homes are exactly the same, 2 stories, close together on city block streets. Of course they are historic and mostly mansions or very expensive.

Suburban homes are typically gated neighborhoods, not on city blocks, wider lots and single stories. This looks like a street in every major city I have been too, perhaps not the city center but within the 1 -2 miles from it.

The fact is this area is FULL of single family homes already and as residents there would probably agree, more of these mid-rises all over the place isn't likely what they desire.

I don't understand the obsession with the extreme density from non at all. This area was empty in terms of density, can't anyone just be happy with the progress.

I can hardly imagine taking the risk in this area as done already with such a bad mix of commercial, vacant land and low value homes.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 04:05 PM   #115
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Quote:
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Go to North East or Bayshore area of Hyde Park between Swann and Bayshore. That is close to Downtown and the homes are exactly the same, 2 stories, close together on city block streets. Of course they are historic and mostly mansions or very expensive.

Suburban homes are typically gated neighborhoods, not on city blocks, wider lots and single stories. This looks like a street in every major city I have been too, perhaps not the city center but within the 1 -2 miles from it.

The fact is this area is FULL of single family homes already and as residents there would probably agree, more of these mid-rises all over the place isn't likely what they desire.

I don't understand the obsession with the extreme density from non at all. This area was empty in terms of density, can't anyone just be happy with the progress.

I can hardly imagine taking the risk in this area as done already with such a bad mix of commercial, vacant land and low value homes.
The point is that this is one of the few areas that could blend into a true urban environment towards downtown if done right. If they put single family homes pretty much anywhere else in Hillsborough County, no one would blink an eye. This could be a cool urban neighborhood bordering DT.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 05:22 PM   #116
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Go to North East or Bayshore area of Hyde Park between Swann and Bayshore. That is close to Downtown and the homes are exactly the same, 2 stories, close together on city block streets. Of course they are historic and mostly mansions or very expensive.
That's the point. The entire downtown is ringed with low density single family homes, save for small pockets of moderate density in Ybor and just across the river in Hyde Park. Go look at the cities that Tampa claims it wants to be more like, and wants to attract the same sort of people, and then you tell us all where are Tampa's complete urban neighborhoods? Low density, auto-centric sprawl is the dominant form throughout virtually the entire city. Tampa says it wants to create vibrant urban spaces to attract new people, investment and vitality to the city. Where? The InVision plan's density is laughably low and won't even remotely be as vibrant as officials are pretending it will be. The entire plan will create housing for maybe 2500 more people than now. And they call it an expansion of downtown? Typical Tampa bullshit. To me the fact that they're thinking so small just means they want to keep the inside deals and 'campaign donation' gravy train local, and not have to involve the more monied outside players that would come in if Tampa underwent the actual urban intensification required to attract the people it says it wants to attract. Those kinds of people will not move here and live in a single family home and drive a car everywhere.

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I don't understand the obsession with the extreme density from non at all. This area was empty in terms of density, can't anyone just be happy with the progress.
500,000 people will be moving to Hillsborough County in the next 25 years. They can either blanket several hundred square miles more land with the same low density sprawl that has already trashed most of the county, or they can build more intelligently and create value, so that in the future, there is actually enough of a tax base to pay for infrastructure replacement costs. Look how a failure to build strategically is already screwing the area... Can't afford transit, can't afford to fix roads and the skyway.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 05:39 PM   #117
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The point is that this is one of the few areas that could blend into a true urban environment towards downtown if done right. If they put single family homes pretty much anywhere else in Hillsborough County, no one would blink an eye. This could be a cool urban neighborhood bordering DT.
What are you talking about, this could be the one area that could blend into a true urban environment if done right?

First of all, this area is almost 80% single family homes, the rest aside from Vintage Lofts and NOHO Flats are light industrial and commercial with the church buildings here or there.

This isn't an empty canvas that you can put down what you want, this land needs to be acquired, zoned, demoed and rebuilt to put anything like this.

Its insane to complain about what ifs for this area based on the circumstances. Maybe if the land was acquired and consolidated to build more large developments but that is not the case.

You will continue to be unhappy, not sure why anyone complaining cares.

1) You don't live there
2) You don't own property there
3) Your not spending a dime or any effort in the area
4) Your opinion is just an opinion.

We should all be happy anything is happening there. That liberal mindset is a disease, it will eat you alive. Thinking you have some better idea than those who are invested or residents of an area. Liberals believe in all this freedom unless they disagree and know what is best for you. Then it's on, no gloves and they are always right. The city, owners and developers couldn't possibly know what they are doing.

The developers have done a great job and the residents and city should be proud. The next step is getting more property in this area developed.

Lets stop complaining about every development and be proud of our city.

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Old July 11th, 2014, 05:52 PM   #118
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That's the point. The entire downtown is ringed with low density single family homes, save for small pockets of moderate density in Ybor and just across the river in Hyde Park. Go look at the cities that Tampa claims it wants to be more like, and wants to attract the same sort of people, and then you tell us all where are Tampa's complete urban neighborhoods? Low density, auto-centric sprawl is the dominant form throughout virtually the entire city. Tampa says it wants to create vibrant urban spaces to attract new people, investment and vitality to the city. Where? The InVision plan's density is laughably low and won't even remotely be as vibrant as officials are pretending it will be. The entire plan will create housing for maybe 2500 more people than now. And they call it an expansion of downtown? Typical Tampa bullshit. To me the fact that they're thinking so small just means they want to keep the inside deals and 'campaign donation' gravy train local, and not have to involve the more monied outside players that would come in if Tampa underwent the actual urban intensification required to attract the people it says it wants to attract. Those kinds of people will not move here and live in a single family home and drive a car everywhere.
The city that Tampa Claims to be like? Every city is unique but certainly the single family homes near down-towns are common and desirable. You have this notion that it needs to be a certain density and its doesn't matter were, your always going to complain. Your not going to see blocks of single family homes torn down for more Vintage Lofts. You will see areas that are available developed within their means. Only in this forum do I continue to hear there ideas of what the city is doing wrong. Who says filling our city with higher density is the right thing, who says that owners and developers can't build what they want. Left to people like you, Tampa would be all but abandoned by new development for lack of satisfying your excessive density requirements.

Tampa is it's own city and Invision is a great tool. I am sorry that you and others here are so disappointed with the city. Perhaps you guys can get together, go purchase some land, get it rezoned and build some great stuff! Then I can critique everything from my armchair....


Quote:
500,000 people will be moving to Hillsborough County in the next 25 years. They can either blanket several hundred square miles more land with the same low density sprawl that has already trashed most of the county, or they can build more intelligently and create value, so that in the future, there is actually enough of a tax base to pay for infrastructure replacement costs. Look how a failure to build strategically is already screwing the area... Can't afford transit, can't afford to fix roads and the skyway.
That or they can not move here if they agree with you, who needs them right, the NIMBY's I hear about all the time. Again, get involved and invest in this communities development. Not here or complaining at a public forum. Invest your dollars and time on some development.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 06:12 PM   #119
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Why do you always turn it into a Left-Right issue!?!

https://theweek.com/article/index/26...embrace-it-too

Building walkable vibrant urban neighborhoods benefits all and is smart policy, no matter what your political persuasion. Last it the style of new developments does substantially effect me and all of us.
1. Correctly developed urban neighborhoods raise property values for the entire region. 2. It substantially provides a stronger tax base for our municipalities so that we can have or more services or reduced ad valorem tax rates (I threw you some conservative red meat) 3. It's reduces the need for sprawl and lessens congestion. 4. It makes our region more desirable to companies which increases the number of jobs. 5. It increases our regions desirability for tourists. 6. It protects our the natural habitat from sprawl and allows for future generations to enjoy natural Florida not the paved over hell hole. And I could go on and on.

No one is advocated tearing down single family homes. Hyde park and the old bungalows create a wonderful neighborhood full of charm. But where the opportunity presents itself new developments in such close proximity to the CBD should be developed with some sort of forward visions and density.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 06:46 PM   #120
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^You're wasting your time.
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