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Old July 11th, 2014, 08:16 PM   #121
StPeteNative
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I know. I've tried not to respond because it does no good. But this claim was so far from reality.

Old square peg round hole.
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Old July 11th, 2014, 08:38 PM   #122
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Once this area is built out completely with homes and apartments then I'd like a Walmart nearby, some strip malls & chain restaurants to give the area the ultimate suburban feel. I want to see parking lots full of SUV's. **** Carrollwood!
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Old July 14th, 2014, 04:18 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StPeteNative View Post
Why do you always turn it into a Left-Right issue!?!

https://theweek.com/article/index/26...embrace-it-too

Building walkable vibrant urban neighborhoods benefits all and is smart policy, no matter what your political persuasion. Last it the style of new developments does substantially effect me and all of us.
1. Correctly developed urban neighborhoods raise property values for the entire region. 2. It substantially provides a stronger tax base for our municipalities so that we can have or more services or reduced ad valorem tax rates (I threw you some conservative red meat) 3. It's reduces the need for sprawl and lessens congestion. 4. It makes our region more desirable to companies which increases the number of jobs. 5. It increases our regions desirability for tourists. 6. It protects our the natural habitat from sprawl and allows for future generations to enjoy natural Florida not the paved over hell hole. And I could go on and on.

No one is advocated tearing down single family homes. Hyde park and the old bungalows create a wonderful neighborhood full of charm. But where the opportunity presents itself new developments in such close proximity to the CBD should be developed with some sort of forward visions and density.
Sorry, I certainly do not try to make this a left or right issue, its what I see reflected here. The left talks about this notion of freedom ( for them ) but are quick to want to control everyone else including corporations and have this idea that they have some rights over private property owners in this forum.

The fact is, the city allowed this, nothing was done that could be considered a crime or illegal.

The reality is, the few that are taking the risk have done a great job. The city does need to improve the sidewalks, street-lighting and landscape as I already noted a few times.

The definition of walk-able may involve some key points but certainly what some here view as 'walk-able' is very specific. Just knowing people are moving there is all the proof you need that its good development. I would have serious doubts about living in that area at this stage of development.


There would be no development if the requirements touted here were so enforced, and I believe somehow that many would be fine with that. More of the same and no change just because its not exactly what you wanted.

I really see an issue here with how some react to many developments and completely ignore the properties that are vacant, abandoned or neglected which is the real issue with the downtown area.

If there were more conservatives here, there would be much more excitement about the developments and less criticism. Sure there would be discussion about things but not this negativity and hatred for anything perceived as the 'right'.
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Old July 14th, 2014, 04:25 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Mayberry View Post
Once this area is built out completely with homes and apartments then I'd like a Walmart nearby, some strip malls & chain restaurants to give the area the ultimate suburban feel. I want to see parking lots full of SUV's. **** Carrollwood!


Great, lets make every property owner that wants to develop their land have to build really high density. Nothing will get built, your lucky to see Vintage Lofts and NOHO in this area. Sure if it was 2006 NOHO would probably had a garage instead of parking lots, heck, Vintage would have completed phase 2 of their planned development. Again, we should be thankful that any meaningful development is happening here and IMO its looking good.

There is a Walmart nearby on Kennedy. Who cares, the city isn't going to transform, it will improve, slightly. Deal with the facts and stop dreaming and enjoy your life a little.

Not sure why people would live in this city that is not even close to how they want to live?
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Old July 14th, 2014, 05:27 PM   #125
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It is time to stop now. There is no use to this discussion which goes to the heart of zoning v. private property rights.
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Old July 14th, 2014, 06:13 PM   #126
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Not sure why people would live in this city that is not even close to how they want to live?
Neither do native born college grads, over half of whom leave this area as soon as they are financially capable of doing so. Only Detroit sheds more homegrown talent than this area.

Real prosperous city that people with your "If its good enough for me, it's good enough to force onto everyone else" mentality have built here. Lol
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Old July 14th, 2014, 11:53 PM   #127
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Quote:
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Neither do native born college grads, over half of whom leave this area as soon as they are financially capable of doing so. Only Detroit sheds more homegrown talent than this area.

Real prosperous city that people with your "If its good enough for me, it's good enough to force onto everyone else" mentality have built here. Lol

Where do you get these statistics from?
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Old July 15th, 2014, 04:04 AM   #128
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I am sorry I cannot let these assertions go unanswered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian72 View Post
Just knowing people are moving there is all the proof you need that its good development. I would have serious doubts about living in that area at this stage of development.
Is this good development? People move here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian72 View Post
There would be no development if the requirements touted here were so enforced, and I believe somehow that many would be fine with that. More of the same and no change just because its not exactly what you wanted.
As opposed to Vancouver or Portland which have some of the most stringent zoning and land use requirements in North America.
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Old July 15th, 2014, 04:31 AM   #129
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^That image apparently doesn't allow hotlinking...

http://www.inspirationgreen.com/asse...as%20vegas.jpg
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Old July 15th, 2014, 04:38 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A. View Post
Where do you get these statistics from?
I garbled that one up... It's a majority of local tech grads who ultimately move elsewhere, not all college grads in general. However, it is also true that Tampa as a metro loses more of its own homegrown talent than most other large US metros do. This is something local leaders have been trying to address with getting transit started and business incubators, but that stuff is being started so late, that most of the rest of the country is way ahead.
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Old July 15th, 2014, 10:35 AM   #131
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Non

Quote:
Originally Posted by StPeteNative View Post
I am sorry I cannot let these assertions go unanswered.
The point is that for an area as rough as NOHO, developers and residents are moving in. Obviously that in itself indicates the area is coming back to life.

I never said it was perfect, only that you have to agree it's higher density and like kind of development for the neighborhood. Personally I think NOHO has a long way to go but this is a good start.

Wasn't able to see your photo in the link, what's it of?


Is this good development? People move here.
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Old July 15th, 2014, 07:53 PM   #132
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^I provided a link to it above.
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Old July 15th, 2014, 09:03 PM   #133
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It says access denied when I clicked the link...
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Old July 15th, 2014, 09:22 PM   #134
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The market will dictate the types of development that happens. Urban-ism is just starting to take effect and will drastically change the way people live. With that will come a change in developments as our needs for transportation, commerce and social interactions change. This all takes time, Tampa didn't become an empty wasteland overnight.

Regardless of what we want, developers have no choice but make a return on their investments. For example, including retail in the ground floor is a decision based on the market, not the lack of interest or not having vision. We still see vacant units in prime locations built into developments.

10 - 15 years there will be different developments than we see today. What I am trying to convey is that we have to accept that market control and push it as much as we can accepting the supply and demand.
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Old July 16th, 2014, 01:40 AM   #135
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Jesus... That website REALLY don't want people to see that ugly ass sprawl, do they? Copy paste the link into a new tab if you want to see it...
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Old July 16th, 2014, 09:53 AM   #136
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Personally I love the old housing stock and the numerous old buildings throughout NOHO. IMO its important that we don't destroy all of these old single family residences and old low rises commercial buildings that give NOHO its historic character. They should be saved, renovated and re-purposed over time. I know that these structures are low density but without them the area will be void of any historic grit and ambiance. This does not mean that i want this area to stay low density.

For all the reasons that has been discussed, its extremely important that the city guides the future development efforts towards a much higher density, multi-use, walkable and transit oriented extension of downtown like invision suggest. NO MORE SPRAWL, PERIOD. All the remaining empty land and failing dilapidated warehouses that have no historic character should be zoned for Medium - High Intensity developments. There will come a time when this area is completely built out and occasionally a lovely historic houses or two that is holding up a decent amount of land has to go to make way for 50+ units to replace it.

I hope to one day see a Noho that once built out and has the density needed to support a vibrant community that is walkable, mix-use and transit oriented that would resemble a true extension of downtown capable of giving the countless thousands of future residents the downtown like experience they're looking for.

The trick would be could they city and developers team up in common interest to accomplish this and still keep the historic character of the neighborhood. This area has the ability to become a nice blend of old and new and will one day be its strong point.


Basically the old charming single family residences and new (hopefully high density, mix use) developments could co-exist very nicely
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Old July 19th, 2014, 03:35 AM   #137
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Basically the old charming single family residences and new (hopefully high density, mix use) developments could co-exist very nicely
Too bad high end home builders are tearing historical houses down at a feverish pace, in order to build upscale single family homes that sell for twice as much. Given the area, and what surrounds the area, a huge chunk of those houses will be razed and rebuilt by the end of this decade. Same thing that happened down in Port Tampa... most people don't even realize that there are entirely new subdivisions down by Tanker Way Gate.

Unless the existing residents band together like Seminole Heights did, expect the area to morph into something completely different.
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Last edited by Szemeredy; July 19th, 2014 at 03:51 AM.
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Old July 19th, 2014, 06:32 AM   #138
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Really not missing much if most structures in the NoHo area are eventually turned over imo. It's certainly a part of any long range growth plan I've seen in recent times. In time, basically the entire swath of the city north of Kennedy and south of I-275 is projected to become some higher level of density, whether it's townhouses all the way up to midrises. And they also want several million sqft of office space to develop over time in between Westshore and DT too. That ain't happening with low density single family homes and bare bones infrastructure that presently exists.
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Old July 19th, 2014, 07:09 AM   #139
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Quote:
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Really not missing much if most structures in the NoHo area are eventually turned over imo. It's certainly a part of any long range growth plan I've seen in recent times. In time, basically the entire swath of the city north of Kennedy and south of I-275 is projected to become some higher level of density, whether it's townhouses all the way up to midrises. And they also want several million sqft of office space to develop over time in between Westshore and DT too. That ain't happening with low density single family homes and bare bones infrastructure that presently exists.
Midrise/townhouse/office isn't exactly out of character for the area's history, either. NoHo was originally an industrial district, with most of that already having been razed decades ago.
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Old July 21st, 2014, 02:36 AM   #140
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Too bad high end home builders are tearing historical houses down at a feverish pace, in order to build upscale single family homes that sell for twice as much. Given the area, and what surrounds the area, a huge chunk of those houses will be razed and rebuilt by the end of this decade. Same thing that happened down in Port Tampa... most people don't even realize that there are entirely new subdivisions down by Tanker Way Gate.

Unless the existing residents band together like Seminole Heights did, expect the area to morph into something completely different.

That is too bad and you're probably right, I just hope they don't do the same in Port Tampa and tear down single family to put back single family.
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