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Old December 27th, 2014, 01:50 AM   #61
Brian72
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On the upside, it will be fresh and vibrant.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 02:04 AM   #62
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^Unfortunately, I can't help but imagine 1600 units spread across 50 acres, turning out to be dozens of SFH and 2-story apartment buildings that look like Tempo.


Somewhere along the way, this project went from being about, and I'm paraphrasing here, "extending the downtown core across the river, so that the river eventually becomes the center of a much larger downtown core".

Into... "1600 housing units, and some commercial space spread across 120 acres".


This development would be underwhelming if it was a new suburban development. That it's supposed to be some sort of "extension" of downtown, has got to be some kind of joke.

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Old December 27th, 2014, 02:09 AM   #63
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But still, the area is just an old mess. I'll take getting rid of blighted public housing on the river for a fresh new neighborhood anyday. Of course more density is great but isn't this across from Seminole Heights and similar density for the area?
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Old December 27th, 2014, 03:48 AM   #64
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I'll actually be sad to see the old high rise senior building go. It had the gritty look of Chicago or NY housing projects and will probably be replaced with a bland 3 story cookie cutter apartment.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 04:15 AM   #65
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^Yeah, and if I'm not mistaken, it's the only one we've got left, after USF knocked down their commie blocks too.

A minor shame they can't reno it.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 04:38 AM   #66
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If nimbys can get projects stopped or stalled because of "traffic" why can we bitch and complain to the city that we think it's bot dense and urban enough?
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Old December 27th, 2014, 05:30 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post


This development would be underwhelming if it was a new suburban development. That it's supposed to be some sort of "extension" of downtown, has got to be some kind of joke.
Yeah, a cruel and evil joke
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Old December 27th, 2014, 05:40 AM   #68
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To be fair, the residential component will be on a little more than 50 acres within the neighborhood, but the "West River" area (Columbus to 275 and Rome to the river) that the article is referring to is 120 acres. Either way, it's not impressive.
Ok, thanks for clarifying. Your right either way it's not good.. here's to hoping we nail a major headquarters and create a better business climate, and fast, because that seems like it will be the only thing that can increase the developers ambition for this golden swath of land


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If nimbys can get projects stopped or stalled because of "traffic" why can we bitch and complain to the city that we think it's bot dense and urban enough?
I'm sure we can, it's a valid argument. There better some some major office, commercial and recreational amenities to make up for the depressing amount of residential
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Old December 27th, 2014, 06:01 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1115 View Post
I'll actually be sad to see the old high rise senior building go. It had the gritty look of Chicago or NY housing projects and will probably be replaced with a bland 3 story cookie cutter apartment.
I agree, sadly.

Btw, welcome to the forum! We hope you enjoy posting here! Please feel free to send me a P.M. if you have any questions.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 06:16 PM   #70
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and recreational amenities to make up for the depressing amount of residential
That's the problem. Civic amenities are largely non-rev. The more of those you have, the higher your taxpayer costs, and the lower your tax base.

Since residential development intensity is so low, there will indeed have to be relatively more development of other zoning types, like office, retail and hotel, to make up the millions of dollars in tax revenues not being created by the proposed low density residential growth. Except all of the numbers I've heard being tossed around, there's not exactly a lot of that envisioned either.

To me, this project doesn't feel like 'city building', it feels like 'taxpayer backed land development scheme to benefit the politically connected'.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 07:21 PM   #71
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I want to know how much influence, if any, the anti-tax folks like Calvert has had on shaping the course of stuff like this. I sometimes have to wonder if they're trying to pull the strings to get what they want too.
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Old December 27th, 2014, 07:28 PM   #72
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^Let's not get too paranoid.

There are reports on this stuff somewhere. I want to see the one that says the proposed intensity of development gets a high rating for fiscal soundness.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 03:59 PM   #73
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Well, I'm willing to bet what is going to wind up being constructed will be all car-centric, with zero accommodations for transit, with exception to maybe a few bus loading bays here and there on the main roads. Any possibility of anything interacting with future streetcar lines will automatically be shut down by the Calverts, et. al. because they simply don't want it becoming a transit community, but rather the same ol' car centric environment that is half assed to begin with.

My point is, if the West Bank is done right, it can serve as a catalyst to redeveloping Cypress and adding a streetcar line or two. But if muckheads like the Calverts get their way, all bets are off.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 04:44 PM   #74
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I rather it stay projects then to see all that prime land turn into a suburban style development!! Why rush? If there isn't a demand yet to expand urban living to that part of "downtown", than don't make a move. There plenty of other space to focus on.

I would be especially upset if it were true that this whole deal is to benefit a couple politically connected people that don't care.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 04:45 PM   #75
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That's just too much land to mess up
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Old December 28th, 2014, 07:03 PM   #76
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1st, it's going to happen. 2nd many of you are going to give your selves heart attacks. 3rd why so much complaining? It's a dump and going to be double the size density and doesn't have to be Brooklyn or Lincoln Park to be a great part of the city....why does everyone here believe the only right way to redevelop the city is to turn it upside down? So depressing to read these posts...many here have this idea of density that is always going to be lacking. Tampa isn't and never will be a large urban city, it's not going to happen and if it was, it would have long ago. The fact there are as many here now is from the retirement boom decades ago and suburbs developed after that. This is not a major manufacturing city. Lots of recreation and service related jobs on hotels, retail, restaurants and entertainment. aside from that it's also a tourist destination, I am happy to see the turn around in our downtowns but get a grip on reality, it's just Tampa Bay and like one or two who always post negative comments suggesting that Tampa sucks more or less, they are going to post comments that disagree with me....makes absolutely no sense. How about saying, great, redevelopment. What has anyone complaining done here besides point fingers? Go get involved in a project, put your time and money into something before being so critical of others investments and hard work.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 10:27 PM   #77
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^In case you still can't figure it out, what you think is good urban living, and what urbanists consider good urban living, are two different things.

Quote:
Tampa isn't and never will be a large urban city
Bingo. This is why Tampa will never be high on my list of places to live, no matter how hard it tries. Not my fault my parents dragged me here and I didn't know any better in my youth. Now that I know better, I know Tampa is a shitty place to live for someone who prefers urban living, like me.


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Go get involved in a project, put your time and money into something before being so critical of others investments and hard work.
Some of are presently doing so. Just not in a bottom rung market like Tampa with so much risk for so little reward. In spite of all of the news around here, I'm beyond excited that I was able to divest out of this market with ease, and buy where I bought. I've had my money stuck in real estate here for almost a decade.

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Old December 28th, 2014, 10:32 PM   #78
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Like I said, be thankful Tampa is getting action. Look, anyone can want so much more, even I wouldn't mind more density and development as much as you or anyone else does. The point is be realistic with our expectations on what is reasonable for this area. Looking at every project that way is always going to be underwhelming. Tampa is really a small city but that is starting to change. I really don't care how dense or tall the city becomes and really hope that it becomes FUNctional in the downtown areas.

Last edited by Brian72; December 28th, 2014 at 10:39 PM.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 11:19 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by densitymatters View Post
I rather it stay projects then to see all that prime land turn into a suburban style development!! Why rush? If there isn't a demand yet to expand urban living to that part of "downtown", than don't make a move. There plenty of other space to focus on.

I would be especially upset if it were true that this whole deal is to benefit a couple politically connected people that don't care.
Exactly. And I'm sure the Calverts will be one of those " connected" people at the end of the day because I can already sense that this will be an unwalkable transit death trap.
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Old December 28th, 2014, 11:42 PM   #80
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^lol

If they can just get old DT West Tampa back to being a local destination, and can get the corridor between there and SoHo fixed up (as in, no longer an automotive raceway, and no longer low density sprawl), that would be really good. If they can make Boulevard walkable from Kennedy to the river, even better. And then if they can do likewise to Cass and Cypress west to Armenia, they would be getting somewhere.

But the density that kind of urban intensification requires doesn't appear to be part of what's being proposed. What's being proposed doesn't seem to be intense enough to create a critical mass of activity that justifies the infrastructure investment, and makes the neighborhood bustling/vibrant. The plan feels more like the powers that be continue to view the project area largely as a place people drive through to go elsewhere. Not really giving it the kinds of investments and attention its favorable location warrants.

Which is why it kind of feels like taking advantage of the power of a CRA to pay off today's developers with tomorrow's taxes. Like Densitymatters said, why the rush? There are clearly way more projects going on right now, than there is demand for the supply in the near future.
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