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Old December 18th, 2014, 03:49 AM   #101
USF802
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I wonder if UT students would use a water taxi. They flock to Uber and Lyft, so I'd imagine they most likely would if it was reasonable. Especially if a 6-8 person water taxi and all they could pre-game say a Lightning game on it (similar to the eBoat rentals) that people drink on.

However, I don't suspect UT letting any company to build anywhere near or on Plant Park for a dock.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 03:53 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post
It says it takes up to a day to post them once submitted. I didn't see the other one yet that I submitted earlier either.
Oh, ok.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 03:59 AM   #103
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There are a bunch of minor POIs, but not necessarily major ones, as one would see in cities with more urban development.

How do you break this up, and get enough passengers to make it worthwhile? How do you even access some of them by boat?

Rick's on the River/marina
Waterworks Park/Ulele
Lane Park
Straz
Curtis Hixon/Museums/Malios
UT
Channel 8/Trib
Aloft/Riverwalk hotels
Convention Center
TGH
Harbour Island
Marriott
Arena/Cotanchobee Park/history museum
Channelsdie Shops
Tampa Bay History Museum
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Old December 18th, 2014, 04:01 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by tamparican View Post
Not to fire up any more speculation than was already announced in the plan earlier today, but there was one article I ran across earlier that brought up again the Flour mill and the rail line acres by it, mentioning as we already knew that if a deal can be made to relocate the mill and close up the rails, it would free up about 10 acres...making a case for a baseball stadium there in future additions to the plans. The article mentioned a few of the issues that are lingering around such as two slivers of parcels worth $2million- between Nebraska and Jefferson that the owners are refusing to part with (Vinik holds the parcel wedged in between both of theirs). It also mentioned how Vinik would seek around $30 million in reimbursement from CRA to cover the costs of fixing the grid/streets and adding landscaping etc (which is very tiny fraction compared to the billion in private financing); I specifically bring that up b/c in the comments section of the article of course there were some people complaining about Vinik wanting to use up taxpayer money for this project (yet in perspective its a tiny fraction?!?!).. Interesting was the piece stating that Vinik is trying to get the channelside plan ready by May so that he can show it to major retailers at a Las Vegas Convetion..

Also good to note is that there would almost be two seperate $1 billion projects taking on simultaneously (the airports $943M project). This is very good news, considering all the recently announced and approved lofts/projects buldings that are in the works or will begin constrcution within a year or two as well.
Yeah this is disappointing and considering most of the planned buildings are high rises, albeit small ones, the planned Ferg's sports bar designed from container ships will likely look out of place. The district is modeling to be a hub of activity, whether at night for games and events, or in the middle of the day with all the office space planned and having a single use sports bar in that property is not the best utilization. Ferguson, behind the original St. Pete location, menu and all is not to be fully blamed since the owner is, Jay Mize, is responsible for the land it sits on, etc. But this isn't the first time the Ferg's name has irritated me today, since this exact same restaurant was the focal point of an article today, complaining about the idea of the Rays leaving since it will hurt their business in St. Pete, yet they are the ones opening in Tampa....

And yes, the flour mill will look sorely out of place but the price tag they seem to be asking for appears beyond ridiculous.

Edit: and the idea of Ferg's selling to Vinik...

Source: Tampa Bay Times

Quote:
Regardless of the area's future, Mize and Ferguson said they plan to make Ferg's the new gathering spot before and after concerts at the Times Forum, and, of course, the hockey games.
More: http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...63339#comments
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Old December 18th, 2014, 04:12 AM   #105
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I think for an urban core water taxi, there is two ways to look at it. It could either be geared towards the everyday residents living in and around the core. Or be geared towards the tourists and convention goers, with either a medium between those to, or centric to one of those.

I think, personally, that it should be initially geared towards the tourists and convention goers. In part because, in terms of residents within the golden 1/4 mile is relatively low, even lower when it comes to the summer months.

The convention goers would be centrally concentrated to the newly expanded convention district and would most likely utilize a water taxi more often than say a resident.

In terms of that, I would think the main hub station at Cotanchobee park/History Museum/Arena/Marriott with other stations at TGH, the Convention Center, Curtis Hixon/Malios/Straz/Art and Children Museums and finally the Heights and UT if it's feasible.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 04:19 AM   #106
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As for Fergs, Mize and Ferguson knew exactly what they were doing. They knew the Vinik land would eventually be developed, and heck probably even got a glimpse of the plans before they decided to set up shop across from the Arena. They clearly went with the containers knowing full well they would have to pack bags in less than a decade, if that. But they also knew they would basically have a easy shoe in, to any retail space they wanted once the buildout is complete.

I'm willing to bet the Fergs ends up in the bottom of the new Vinik hotel anchoring the TampaLive corridor to the Plaza. I say this because this would be the building most likely to be completed first. And by then, the Fergs that is to the Rays, would be deep rooted to the Fergs that is the Lighting by then.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 07:55 AM   #107
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Some articles...


Are Jeff Vinik's downtown Tampa office space plans too ambitious?

Susan Taylor Martin
Tampa Bay Times Senior Correspondent
Wednesday, December 17, 2014 2:09pm



Quote:
TAMPA —With nearly 14 percent of downtown Tampa's office space currently vacant, Jeff Vinik's plans to add 1.1 million more square feet might sound ambitious and even unrealistic.

Yet commercial real estate experts say downtown could support its first new office tower in a generation as more and more top-flight companies jump on the national trend toward re-urbanization.

"If the city of Tampa is ever going to change its image as sort of a big, back-office market, it's going to happen in downtown,'' said Larry Feldman, whose Feldman Equities is co-owner of the Wells Fargo Center on South Ashley Drive.

"All the best employers in the county with the high-value, high- paying jobs you want are going to come downtown,'' Feldman said. "I think the days of big Fortune 500 companies being in the suburbs is a thing of the past.''

Larry Richey, a senior managing director of Cushman & Wakefield, agrees.

"With both individuals and companies wanting to be in the most urban environments, we need this space to accommodate the demand right now,'' he said. "A tenant of a couple-of-floors size looking in downtown Tampa, especially if they want a higher floor with a better view — there are virtually no options for those tenants right now.''
Continued here...
http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...itious/2210557
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Old December 18th, 2014, 08:00 AM   #108
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Can Jeff Vinik the hockey owner also become Tampa's rainmaker?


Robert Trigaux
Tampa Bay Times Senior Correspondent
Wednesday, December 17, 2014 8:03pm



Quote:
TAMPA — If the man with a $1 billion "vision plan" for Tampa's downtown Channelside district —Tampa Bay Lightning owner Jeff Vinik — can deliver on his "world class" and newly dubbed "Waterfront District," then all the hype at Wednesday's project unveiling can be forgiven — and may prove well deserved...
Quote:
But this is a bold and complex project whose success depends on many hard-to-predict factors. Here are five takeaways gleaned from Vinik's morning presentation and an afternoon sit-down Wednesday with Vinik and Buckhorn.

1. Vinik is not just another real estate developer...

2. Vinik's got a powerful team behind him...

3. Billionaire Bill Gates' money, via his Cascade Investments firm, is a major backer of the Vinik project...

4. Vinik's project would elevate the Channelside district from a hodge-podge mix of parking lots, failed retail shopping and an undersized convention center to a powerfully branded and walkable urban destination for Millennials, empty nesters and a sophisticated workforce...

5. Playing the social media card, Vinik wants his project to be influenced by community input captured on an exclusive "crowdsourcing" website. Go to www.tampawaterfront2020.com to offer project ideas...
For full article,click here...
http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...nmaker/2210653



I think #4 is overstating things just a bit, but anyways...
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Old December 18th, 2014, 08:07 AM   #109
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haha... CL's headline keeps it real... Otherwise, the article seems to run down the same basics as everyone else...


New Vinik plan gives downtown Tampa a walkable urban hub, like most cities already have

Posted By Kate Bradshaw
Creative Loafing
Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 7:54 PM


http://cltampa.com/politicalanimal/a...e#.VJJ79nuNMTo
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Old December 18th, 2014, 08:10 AM   #110
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And we can always count on the Trib to go there...


Vinik plan requires public infrastructure money

BY CHRISTOPHER O’DONNELL
Tampa Tribune staff
Published: December 17, 2014


Quote:
TAMPA — The revitalization of Channelside will not come free for taxpayers.

The $1 billion development plan unveiled by Tampa Bay Lightning owner Jeff Vinik Wednesday will largely be funded by private investment but will require tens of millions of tax dollars to pay for improving roads, sewers and utilities.

Vinik’s plan calls for realigning streets north of Amalie Arena into a more conventional grid system, including the extension of Old Water Street through to East Cumberland Avenue. Planned new hotel, apartment complexes and offices will also require new sewers, utilities and water mains.

The money will come from one of Tampa’s Tax Increment Financing or TIF districts, where every year a portion of property taxes are set aside to pay for new infrastructure and other projects that help revitalize the area.

“The ask will be significant; the infrastructure costs will be significant but we are prepared to help in conjunction with the county,” said Tampa Mayor Bob Buckhorn. “It’s a win-win for us but it will not be cheap.”
Article continued here...
http://tbo.com/news/business/vinik-p...oney-20141217/
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Old December 18th, 2014, 01:53 PM   #111
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Wow can't believe that last article purposely states how the $1Billion development is LARGELY FUNDED with private funds, yet they carefully word the next line indicating it will require tens of millions of taxpayer dollars to fix up the broken grid downtown!.. I say that $30M they are asking for reimbursement over years from the CRA is well worth improving the street layout in those areas, as well as rain drainage improvements, landscaping etc. Seriously you have a man and his team investing a solid $1B into your city with their own $, yet are complaining about your tiny $30m share of fixing up the streets to make it work!?

On another note, I think they should incorporate some kind of Film studio (whatever happened to the idea that was being pitched around for a small film studio in Channelside a while back from some company?). It's apparent that more and more films are considering the area for their projects. Perhaps the studio itself could take up the footprint somewhere else, but a nice DT office to help lure projects in to the area would be nice.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 02:09 PM   #112
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so any thing going on to get rid of the conagra plant and I am assuming with these new renderings no shot of getting the rays to channelside?
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Old December 18th, 2014, 02:38 PM   #113
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As the mayor has repeatedly put the focus on the river being the center of downtown, it seems likely that it will continue to become a more integral part of the city. Water taxis are a great idea once there are easy access points and the projects are completed.

I can just see taxis running all over the place, what a great way to avoid the traffic, see the city and get there quickly....our river is one of the most underutilized I have seen in a city this size...hope the river truly becomes the connection to all the surrounding downtown areas...including areas north like Seminole Heights.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 02:43 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPAman22 View Post
Yeah this is disappointing and considering most of the planned buildings are high rises, albeit small ones, the planned Ferg's sports bar designed from container ships will likely look out of place. The district is modeling to be a hub of activity, whether at night for games and events, or in the middle of the day with all the office space planned and having a single use sports bar in that property is not the best utilization. Ferguson, behind the original St. Pete location, menu and all is not to be fully blamed since the owner is, Jay Mize, is responsible for the land it sits on, etc. But this isn't the first time the Ferg's name has irritated me today, since this exact same restaurant was the focal point of an article today, complaining about the idea of the Rays leaving since it will hurt their business in St. Pete, yet they are the ones opening in Tampa....

And yes, the flour mill will look sorely out of place but the price tag they seem to be asking for appears beyond ridiculous.

Edit: and the idea of Ferg's selling to Vinik...

Source: Tampa Bay Times



More: http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...63339#comments

I don't believe the owners of the new Tampa Fergs have anything to do with the original St Pete location except for the naming rights purchased...they are completely separate owners.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 02:46 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post
And we can always count on the Trib to go there...


Vinik plan requires public infrastructure money

BY CHRISTOPHER O’DONNELL
Tampa Tribune staff
Published: December 17, 2014




Article continued here...
http://tbo.com/news/business/vinik-p...oney-20141217/

Just reporting the facts, I don't believe anyone with a little knowledge would overlook the boom this will result in with increase tax revenues.Certainly they are not trying to down the project in terms of public dollars, in fact it actually shows what a small investment the public is having to make compared to the huge private investments.

It is really a matter if perspective when reading the article.

These were the mayors words...

Quote:
“The ask will be significant; the infrastructure costs will be significant but we are prepared to help in conjunction with the county,” said Tampa Mayor Bob Buckhorn. “It’s a win-win for us but it will not be cheap.”
More good points in the article..

Quote:
It’s unclear how those changes would be funded but Buckhorn said establishing the streetcar as a reliable robust transit system could also help convince residents about the benefits of mass transit.

Buckhorn said the investment will pay off with a return in extra property taxes, jobs and the impetus that revitalization of Channelside will give to the city’s overall economy.

“For the first time, the people of the community realize the magnitude of what we are about to embark on; they realize what an undervalued asset this has been for 20 years but more importantly the potential,” Buckhorn said.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 02:52 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TPAman22 View Post
Yeah this is disappointing and considering most of the planned buildings are high rises, albeit small ones, the planned Ferg's sports bar designed from container ships will likely look out of place. The district is modeling to be a hub of activity, whether at night for games and events, or in the middle of the day with all the office space planned and having a single use sports bar in that property is not the best utilization. Ferguson, behind the original St. Pete location, menu and all is not to be fully blamed since the owner is, Jay Mize, is responsible for the land it sits on, etc. But this isn't the first time the Ferg's name has irritated me today, since this exact same restaurant was the focal point of an article today, complaining about the idea of the Rays leaving since it will hurt their business in St. Pete, yet they are the ones opening in Tampa....

And yes, the flour mill will look sorely out of place but the price tag they seem to be asking for appears beyond ridiculous.

Edit: and the idea of Ferg's selling to Vinik...

Source: Tampa Bay Times



More: http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...63339#comments
Ardent Mills is poised and ready for sale. They have removed this property from the public shares and already have duplicated the operations in Georgia as I recall reading a few months back. Surely with the changes in the roads overall, getting trucks there will be increasingly more difficult and the new development will surely have an effect on the Mill.

This will be a prize piece of land, the longer they wait, the more it will be worth. Now that the vision is out there, its seems reasonable that the mill will be looking for an out with a decent payday to boot...

Here is an article I don't recall seeing.

Quote:
A baseball stadium project would mean moving an adjacent flour mill at a cost estimated at $70 million or more. Downtown redevelopment funds could pay for infrastructure costs related to the project. Current owner Ardent Mills confirmed last week that it is open to discussion.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgo...-sites/2209260
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Old December 18th, 2014, 03:00 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamparican View Post
Wow can't believe that last article purposely states how the $1Billion development is LARGELY FUNDED with private funds, yet they carefully word the next line indicating it will require tens of millions of taxpayer dollars to fix up the broken grid downtown!.. I say that $30M they are asking for reimbursement over years from the CRA is well worth improving the street layout in those areas, as well as rain drainage improvements, landscaping etc. Seriously you have a man and his team investing a solid $1B into your city with their own $, yet are complaining about your tiny $30m share of fixing up the streets to make it work!?

On another note, I think they should incorporate some kind of Film studio (whatever happened to the idea that was being pitched around for a small film studio in Channelside a while back from some company?). It's apparent that more and more films are considering the area for their projects. Perhaps the studio itself could take up the footprint somewhere else, but a nice DT office to help lure projects in to the area would be nice.
Sure, they are just reporting the facts in this development plan. I saw no where any suggestion of it being a negative. In fact, they note how it will be beneficial. I think if your assuming that the article is bias, your going to look for something to prove it.

Tens of millions is a lot and if not overshadowed by the billion private investment, it would seem even more needed to make note of it. Should they not have mentioned the 30 million of tax dollars? That would be a poorly written article IMO.

Again, total mention of the positives and not one negative in relation to the tax money being used.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 03:13 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian72 View Post
Ardent Mills is poised and ready for sale. They have removed this property from the public shares and already have duplicated the operations in Georgia as I recall reading a few months back. Surely with the changes in the roads overall, getting trucks there will be increasingly more difficult and the new development will surely have an effect on the Mill.

This will be a prize piece of land, the longer they wait, the more it will be worth. Now that the vision is out there, its seems reasonable that the mill will be looking for an out with a decent payday to boot...
Vinik already purchased the Southgate site, presumably for growth or intentions of selling for a profit, but the price tag for the conagra site seems ridiculous from what I've seen. Vinik is providing plenty of office space, retail, and the housing units have sprouted around him. Also forgotten is the near guarantee that the remaining parking lot next to the plaza will become a condo tower. Basically, these developments are already suiting the demand, and Vinik's timeline suggests that it can be filled, but not instantly. It would require something with lots of ambitions to meet their desired selling point, and to challenge Vinik. I imagine Vinik considered the property, and walked away when it was not economically feasible or profitable.
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Old December 18th, 2014, 03:19 PM   #119
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Vinik and the SPP are really the only investors with the capital and desire for this property aside from baseball. Guess we will see today how that is going with the St Pete councils decision....

I am certain there is communication from Ardent though, I see no reason for them to want to remain there. The flour shakers are extremely old, the location is not easy access. A place like this would do best in Gibsonton, Riverview or Polk...perhaps they will come down to reality and strike a 50 mil deal....
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Old December 18th, 2014, 03:25 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian72 View Post
Sure, they are just reporting the facts in this development plan. I saw no where any suggestion of it being a negative. In fact, they note how it will be beneficial. I think if your assuming that the article is bias, your going to look for something to prove it.

Tens of millions is a lot and if not overshadowed by the billion private investment, it would seem even more needed to make note of it. Should they not have mentioned the 30 million of tax dollars? That would be a poorly written article IMO.

Again, total mention of the positives and not one negative in relation to the tax money being used.
The negative is the very article's title: "Vinik plan requires public infrastructure money? and the very first line: "The revitalization of Channelside will not come free for taxpayers." is a very poor depiction of the article that is otherwise a rather positive or factual one. It's almost like here's a positive article and our take on the Vinik Plan, but instead let's steer the focus of it's goal in the heading and opening to taxpayer funding even though it only amounts to about 2.8% of the total expenses related to this whole project that'll rake in millions in economic development and activity for the city as a whole. I just think it should've perhaps worded and opened the article better by indicating that YES there will be some taxpayer money involved albeit on a small scale when regarding the scope of the project, emphasize it as a smart financial investment if anything, rather than emphasize the requirement of taxpayers needing to partially fund this projec, since the article actually does a good job of explaining why picking up the costs needed are beneficial to the local economy. That was my 2 cents about it.
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