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Old July 3rd, 2007, 05:54 PM   #21
HARTride 2012
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Just remember that Wal-Mart failed miserably to get a supercenter built on the PINELLAS side of Gandy, near Derby Lane cause of traffic and environmental issues...mainly traffic problems though.

Unless Wal-Mart is able to sort out some traffic troubles on Gandy, I don't see any kind of Wal-Mart store going up in S. Tampa.

Last edited by HARTride 2012; July 3rd, 2007 at 05:55 PM. Reason: add info
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 06:16 PM   #22
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^Well it is a different goverment over there too. That said I still don't think this will be approved.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 06:42 PM   #23
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^
Yes, but still. In my view, it just goes to show how difficult it is for Wal-Marts to get built in certain places because of a variety of problems.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 06:43 PM   #24
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^Which proves the entire point of my ranting...
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Old July 4th, 2007, 02:27 AM   #25
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If the Crosstown extension is dead and double decking Gandy won't fly, what about the possibility of puting overpasses at the intersections (kind of like what they are doing on US 19)? It would be cheaper and would allow for a smooth flow of interupted traffic between the Gandy Bridge and the Crosstown. Any thoughts???
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Old July 4th, 2007, 03:38 AM   #26
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I think it could work, but the roads would be a mess for YEARS!!!
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Old July 4th, 2007, 04:09 PM   #27
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Tough luck. As much as I hope a solution like that would work, I think the existing businesses along Gandy will kill that proposal before it even gets off the ground.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 03:51 PM   #28
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what businesses? most of the gandy from park/US19 is office parks, apartments, condos, and a few old mobile homes...near old industry, oh and car dealer.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 05:01 PM   #29
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Quote:
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what businesses? most of the gandy from park/US19 is office parks, apartments, condos, and a few old mobile homes...near old industry, oh and car dealer.
I'm not talking about the Pinellas side of Gandy, just the Hillsborough/Tampa side. The small existing businesses along the road probably would oppose any double decker/interchange/freeway plan that arises. I've heard complaints over the years about such a freeway being unattractive, causing excessive noise, diverting tourist traffic away. Though I'm sure FDOT will think up something suitable for the highway...someday.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 05:37 PM   #30
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It is very possible that WalMart will back down to a neighborhood Market (1/4 size of supercenters) to serve the downtown Ybor areas. Would that be an acceptable compromise to the South Tampa community. Walmart apparently will come it's just how big and where, so how do you control it?
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Old July 5th, 2007, 06:57 PM   #31
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Wal-Mart compromises mostly on aesthetics (paint job, architecture) but they do NOT back down on the size and scope of projects. So "Control" concepts are an illusion to begin.

"Wal mart will apparently come" -- no, Wal-Mart is already here and further saturation of the market is justifiably being fought around the region. As it will be fought here.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 07:02 PM   #32
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^They could have done that already, and haven't imo because they know they can't effectively compete with Publix. Not yet anyways.

And Publix seems to be well ahead of the growth curve all over the area... Just read a blurb buried in an article posted elsewhere here that Publix is building a store near Westshore and Kennedy, as part of a 4 story stacked retail center, similar to the Target/Wild Oats portion of Walter's Crossing.



On an aside... I'm more interested in this concept I heard that Wal-Mart is or was looking into of essentially breaking up a Supercenter into 3-4 separate stores all continugous to each other... Basically a power center whose anchors are all Wal-Mart brands. This would allow them to fly in under all of those big box laws, without the many product compromises of their pilot supercenter at Waters and Dale Mabry.... Anyone hear anything about that? Or about Wal-Mart's development of a multi-story supercenter for urban locations?
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Old July 5th, 2007, 07:47 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post
^They could have done that already, and haven't imo because they know they can't effectively compete with Publix. Not yet anyways.

And Publix seems to be well ahead of the growth curve all over the area... Just read a blurb buried in an article posted elsewhere here that Publix is building a store near Westshore and Kennedy, as part of a 4 story stacked retail center, similar to the Target/Wild Oats portion of Walter's Crossing.



On an aside... I'm more interested in this concept I heard that Wal-Mart is or was looking into of essentially breaking up a Supercenter into 3-4 separate stores all continugous to each other... Basically a power center whose anchors are all Wal-Mart brands. This would allow them to fly in under all of those big box laws, without the many product compromises of their pilot supercenter at Waters and Dale Mabry.... Anyone hear anything about that? Or about Wal-Mart's development of a multi-story supercenter for urban locations?
Yeah, I heard about the Publix thing in WestShore. I think they can pull that off. Kennedy is a vital, high-traffic corridor that has seen a lot of commercial properties spring up over the years. I would not be surprised if I saw a multi-story building on the highway with the Publix on the fourth level. I'm also happy about the proposed Westshore Plaza expansion. I remember when the food court was expanded and the theatre built not too long ago and all the traffic the mall has seen since then. I think the mall can succeed in their plans also. Too bad Tampa Bay Center is gone. I'm sure the increased competition from WestShore helped kill off that mall...plus the fact that Tampa Bay Center had a lot of outdated stores.

No, I haven't heard anything about this "concept" Wal-Mart is trying to bring to the table. I think it is pretty innovative, but will it fly? Maybe...I'm kind of optimistic.

Speaking of Walter's Crossing, does anyone know why Toys R' Us fled? They were in the building where Circuit City is now and was quite popular for a few years. I've been thinking either they chose not to renew their lease or Target scared them away (or both).
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Old July 5th, 2007, 08:54 PM   #34
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^The Publix on Kennedy is a no-brainer... The area has been in sore need of a grocery store ever since KnK left when the plaza they were in (SE corner of Kennedy and Westshore) was sold and renovated back in like 2001 or whenever it was.
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Old July 5th, 2007, 09:05 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post

And Publix seems to be well ahead of the growth curve all over the area... Just read a blurb buried in an article posted elsewhere here that Publix is building a store near Westshore and Kennedy, as part of a 4 story stacked retail center, similar to the Target/Wild Oats portion of Walter's Crossing.

^Here it is:

Grocery May Go To New Heights
By ELLEN GEDALIUS, The Tampa Tribune

Published: June 20, 2007

TAMPA - A grocery store on the top floor of an office building?

The idea has been tried elsewhere, and now a developer wants to give it a shot in Tampa.

St. Petersburg-based Porter Development proposes constructing a four-story building on Kennedy Boulevard, near West Shore Boulevard, with a grocery store on the top floor. It would be convenient for residents and workers near the West Shore business district.

People involved with the project hinted that the developer is talking with Publix Super Markets, but neither the developer nor the supermarket chain would confirm the speculation.

Still, developer Les Porter says the time is right to put a grocery store in the area.

'That market is in need of a grocery store pretty badly,' Porter said. 'We think it's a great location for what we're trying to do.'

Plans call for a 65-foot-tall building at Kennedy Boulevard and Gardenia Avenue. The first floor would include retail space, likely high-end shops that didn't fit into nearby WestShore Plaza or International Plaza, said Ron Weaver, a land-use lawyer whose firm is working on the project.

Offices would occupy the second and third floors - unless the developer reaches a deal with an exercise gym company. If the deal goes through - and Porter said talks are going smoothly - the gym would take up both levels.

The development would include at least 900 parking spaces, to be included in a circular parking garage with landings at each level. That would enable grocery shoppers to park just feet from the store's entrance.

Publix Super Markets on Tuesday wouldn't confirm involvement in the project. Plans for new stores are never discussed without a signed lease, spokeswoman Shannon Patten said.

This kind of project, however, is similar to other mixed-use Publix stores in places including Fort Lauderdale's high-end Las Olas Boulevard, which has a three-story supermarket. Patten said the company's growth sometimes depends on building on parcels that won't meet space requirements of traditional supermarkets. Multilevel stores, or smaller urban markets, also may offer different services than the larger locations.

She points to the company's new GreenWise Market planned in south Tampa. The 38,000-square-foot natural and organic market will fill two stories and will include an enlarged escalator that ferries shoppers and their carts to the parking lot.

The Tampa City Council tentatively is scheduled to consider the Kennedy project Oct. 25. If the plans are approved, construction would start in early 2008 and be completed by summer 2009.

Reporter Mary Shedden contributed to this report. Reporter Ellen Gedalius can be reached at [email protected] or (813) 259-7679.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/jun...ts/?news-money
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Old July 5th, 2007, 09:24 PM   #36
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^ I'd like to see more retail projects that are multiple stories. It is good use of land and provides some hope of higher density that is needed to support mass transit.
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Old July 6th, 2007, 05:59 PM   #37
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The Walmart will get built. With the amount of new redidents expected in the area, the city will approve it with conditions. They want the entire area redeveloped and Walmart has the pockets to comply with whatever request(s) the city stipulates (i.e. traffic concerns, landscaping, etc...). The area they are looking at is in need of redevelopment and the city will think of the needs of the future population base.
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Old July 6th, 2007, 06:12 PM   #38
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If Wal-Mart can pull out a multi-story design with a parking garage and what not I would be more open. No one needs another asphalt wasteland, especially for Wal-Mart. But it still doesn't feel like the right location.
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Old July 6th, 2007, 07:55 PM   #39
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I wouldn't mind an urban Wal-Mart so much...but I'd rather not see a Wal-Mart built. I'm not so sure the city would approve.
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Old July 6th, 2007, 11:52 PM   #40
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Quote:
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The Walmart will get built. With the amount of new redidents expected in the area, the city will approve it with conditions. They want the entire area redeveloped and Walmart has the pockets to comply with whatever request(s) the city stipulates (i.e. traffic concerns, landscaping, etc...). The area they are looking at is in need of redevelopment and the city will think of the needs of the future population base.
That's the problem. Wal-Mart caters to the crowd being gentrified out of the area. It doesn't make sense for them to be there imo. And if we're talking about looking forward, when the area soaks up much of the upscale overflow from the north, then there are definitely MUCH better commercial uses of that land for the neighborhood than erecting a Wal-Mart... I think that it would be wiser to build some office space and a hotel or two along Gandy, to help encourage the thousands of residents soon moving in to work and play in the neighborhood, and not clog roads going elsewhere (plus, office and hotel uses would have a generally different traffic pattern then the largely retail uses along the corridor, mitigating some of the traffic increase. And certainly much less so than a Wal-Mart Supercenter).

Smart land use planning will be crucial to making the roads in the area bearable as it inevitably densifies. Wal-Mart ain't it.
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