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Old December 16th, 2008, 09:40 PM   #21
jonknee
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Quote:
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WAAAAAAAAAY too much parking
It's 760 spots for 650 apartments. How is that in any way "too much" parking? Are you high? This allows for people who have two cars (couples).
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Old December 16th, 2008, 09:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
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It's 760 spots for 650 apartments. How is that in any way "too much" parking? Are you high? This allows for people who have two cars (couples).
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Old December 16th, 2008, 10:13 PM   #23
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Parking is the sole reason I didn't buy at either Skypoint or Element.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 10:17 PM   #24
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The lack of available guest parking and getting guests onto your floor is what really turns me off about living in a tower. I have people over all the time, it would really get old if they had to find a metered space and then I had to travel down to the lobby to let them in.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 10:56 PM   #25
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Am I high??!

Without being patronizing, do you know anything about parking requirements in dense and thriving urban environments? Let me tell you, they're certainly less - often, less than one spot per unit. If that bothers you - a real urban experience - then perhaps you aren't as "urban-minded" as you thought.

Precisely these sorts of requirements undermine notions of urbanity. Not only is it possible, but it is entirely feasible to enact much stricter parking restrictions. It is a cultural issue, I suspect, but that does not make it any less of an issue for us as Tampa residents. If they can overcome this issue in the Portlands of the US (the cities we, btw, fashion ourselves after - but only superficially), they can overcome it here.

Out here, at Berkeley - where I study Urban Design and Planning, this wouldn't fly. Under any circumstances. And this is not some liberal utopian vision for city building - it works.

This is a serious issue that needs to be confronted with a more extensive transit network and stricter design guidelines. You might think of it as commercial suicide for a developer, but I see it as the clear, logical and feasible step forward.

Let me repeat that - way too much parking
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Old December 16th, 2008, 10:59 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonknee View Post
The lack of available guest parking and getting guests onto your floor is what really turns me off about living in a tower. I have people over all the time, it would really get old if they had to find a metered space and then I had to travel down to the lobby to let them in.
No offense, but perhaps that means downtown living isn't right for you.

Have you considered that these lifestyle choices don't mesh with urban living?

Point out one urban environment where residents get two spots plus generous space for guests. You won't find it.

Living in San Francisco and now in Berkeley (decidedly less urban, but nonetheless...), I can vouch on top of academic experience that this is a naive perspective on urban living.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 11:01 PM   #27
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Let me finish by saying that, while I'd love for everyone to walk or use transit, I'm very much aware that may be a very distant vision for places like Tampa. That's fine. But I do not think it's appropriate to compromise the integrity of an urban environment by designing so heavily around the car. I think there are alternatives (and plenty of examples to learn from) - spaces outside of the urban center - where we can design up and maintain certain lifestyle needs. The center of the city is not the place for these compromises, however.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 11:17 PM   #28
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^In the future, please just edit and add what you need to instead of making 3 consecutive posts in the same thread in a span 6 minutes.

Ideally, of course, there would be no parking needed, but downtown Tampa will never mature if it discourages people going to it. Right now, the number one way to get there is by car unfortunatley. In the future it will be rail, and you'll be able to eliminate large parking structures. Transportation is the very backbone of the urban enviornment, if you don't have good transit (we don't) we won't have a strong urban core.

I think 1 spot per unit is quite reasonable anyway even if you don't like parking. Or to be more precise about 1.17 spots per unit, in the case of the Martin. Tampa is not New York City, Chicago, or San Fransisco and not many cities in the US are. But hey, the lack of good urban planning is one of the great problems with our country, and it needs to be fixed. I just don't think you can go from a car loving culture to designing cars out of American cities overnight and expect success.

That said, the ultimate goal in a more distant future is what you describe.

Last edited by FloridaFuture; December 16th, 2008 at 11:22 PM.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 11:24 PM   #29
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While I'm sure you feel very smart, studying urban planning in Berkeley, there's a real world out there and that world (at the moment) needs parking. It would be awesome if you didn't need a car in most parts of the country, but building a luxury apartment building in a car-driven area without parking will not make that happen. It will just mean charging less rent and having higher vacancy. In this chicken and egg problem it's the transit that comes first.

Developing is a business, not a homework project where you make your utopia.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 11:37 PM   #30
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Umm - you will not be able to eliminate large parking structures - almost no city does that - just many cities put them underground. The car will likely always be the largest means of transportation - but that should not stop other means.

Frankly, it depends where you are in SF. Most of the people I know park on the street - a bit of a pain, but not too bad. In other cities, driving is also very common. Not every city will be Manhattan. also - what is "urban" - it does not need to be 30 stories, it can be a 3 or 4, which still requires some parking on the street etc. but it is not super painful.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 01:16 AM   #31
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Last time I checked all societies were becoming more car dependant, not less. I can attest by what I just saw in Shanghai. Everyone I spoke to either had a car or wanted one. Ignoring reality is no way to plan. This is why political leaders are elected to keep the idealists in line.

And can urban planners guarantee that people will always have the same job in the same section of town. Because if you cannot, then dictating terms of how they live isn't exactly fair now is it. Over the course of ten years in Tampa, I lived in SoHo, but went to grad school at USF, then worked in Hyde Park and then worked in Tierra Verde. Such career instability is more and more common expecially in the US. Right now my wife works 2 mile from our apartment and I work about 15 miles. My job location doesn't facilitate mass transit and her hours don't for her job.

My point is you cannot design for the ideal planners urban world. Especially as the costs of car ownership continue to become more and more achievable for more people. So the 1.5 spaces per unit is a basic minimum you aren't going to see go away. If anything it ought to be closer to 1.8 - 2 per unit.

And FF mentioned "In the future it will be rail, and you'll be able to eliminate large parking structures". I wouldn't count on rail in today's economy, especially after all the stimulus and infrastructure funds improve all the roads. Afterall that is all there are current hard plans for and the Pres Elect wants "shovel ready" projects to fund. TBARTA, Hartline, PSTA have all been sitting on their collective asses, wasting time for years never finalizing anything.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 01:44 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxim98 View Post
No offense, but perhaps that means downtown living isn't right for you.

Have you considered that these lifestyle choices don't mesh with urban living?

Point out one urban environment where residents get two spots plus generous space for guests. You won't find it.

Living in San Francisco and now in Berkeley (decidedly less urban, but nonetheless...), I can vouch on top of academic experience that this is a naive perspective on urban living.
Its not even just Urban Living. I've been towed at my friends apartment complext at HCC for no reason, and he's been towed at his OWN apartment complex and one at USF. These complexes don't plan for those sort of things. I'd have to take the stance with Jonkee. It's quite easy to make a garage or some room for people to have guests even if its just one extra spot.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 03:12 AM   #33
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Limiting parking has nothing to do with being progressive and everything to do with being cheap.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 03:39 PM   #34
randommichael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxim98 View Post
Am I high??!

Without being patronizing, do you know anything about parking requirements in dense and thriving urban environments? Let me tell you, they're certainly less - often, less than one spot per unit. If that bothers you - a real urban experience - then perhaps you aren't as "urban-minded" as you thought.

Precisely these sorts of requirements undermine notions of urbanity. Not only is it possible, but it is entirely feasible to enact much stricter parking restrictions. It is a cultural issue, I suspect, but that does not make it any less of an issue for us as Tampa residents. If they can overcome this issue in the Portlands of the US (the cities we, btw, fashion ourselves after - but only superficially), they can overcome it here.

Out here, at Berkeley - where I study Urban Design and Planning, this wouldn't fly. Under any circumstances. And this is not some liberal utopian vision for city building - it works.

This is a serious issue that needs to be confronted with a more extensive transit network and stricter design guidelines. You might think of it as commercial suicide for a developer, but I see it as the clear, logical and feasible step forward.

Let me repeat that - way too much parking

I wouldn't mind buildings having NO parking IF Tampa had a real mass transit system. I would ditch both of my cars if I could get around via rail. Until that happens, parking is an issue, even if you are downtown.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 05:18 PM   #35
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Not only is their a parking problem its the most expensive Florida city to park in.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 06:26 PM   #36
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Cool, Thanks Jordan
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Old December 17th, 2008, 07:09 PM   #37
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Don't jump the gun guys.

We shouldn't have created a thread until we had some renderings, and good specs on the building to place in the initial post...
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Old December 17th, 2008, 07:29 PM   #38
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^Meh. I thought we had enough specs (# of stories, height, parking spaces, park, amenities etc.) renderings of course we don't have.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 07:34 PM   #39
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Yeah, but the first post doesn't incorporate any of that... I don't have the time now, but I will clean this up later. I don't think a mod can do it anyways (I have to insert a post). It's all good my friend.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 08:12 PM   #40
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Well, the thing that I'm still clueless is if the 24 story towers includes the 4 story parking garage or not. If so, it'll make the tower 28 stories, which is good.
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