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Old November 14th, 2004, 06:52 PM   #1
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LONDON | DLR, Underground, Tramlink

Hereís all of the current Stocks of train operating on London Underground, in chronological order of introduction:

A60 or A-Stock dating back to 1960, in use on the Metropolitan Line (8 cars) and East London Line (4 cars) :



1967 Stock of the Victoria Line (8 cars), fully automatically driven from its inception:



C69/C77 Stocks (C-Stocks) of the Hammersmith & City and Circle Lines, and also the Edgware Road to Wimbledon District Line service (6 cars). Built in two batches in 1969 and 1977 with minimal differences between the two:



1972 Stock, Bakerloo Line (7 cars) :



1973 Stock, Piccadilly Line (6 cars) :



D78 Stock, District Line (6 cars). The Last stock of train to be refurbished, the first units are being delivered back by the end of this year. The bare aluminium body seen here is how all of the above stocks appeared before their refurbishment during the 1990ís :



1992 Stock, Central Line (8 cars). Fully automatic, currently only the Victoria and Central Lines are (although all newer stocks have the capability, itís the signalling that needs upgrading) :



1995 Stock, Northern Line (6 cars) :



1996 Stock, Jubilee Line (6 cars, soon to be 7) :



Source:

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/faq/trains/astock.asp
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Old November 14th, 2004, 07:24 PM   #2
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Here's some older stocks which have graced London Underground...

1959 Stock which I used to drive up and down the Northern Line until they were finally replaced by the 1995 Stock in 1999:





The gloomy interior:



The Guard at the back of a 1959 stock waiting to close the doors and give the driver the Bell. This single train of 1959 stock was repainted in beautiful 1930's maroon and cream livery towards the end of its life... I have myself been Guard and Driver on this train several times:



The repainted unit at my local station, Angel:



Disappearing into the tunnel at Morden, not to re-appear for 17.5 miles!:



The Guards' Panel... It was at the front of the last carriage and as the Guard you just raised a bar across the gangway to protect yourself from the public:



Source:

http://www.squarewheels.org.uk/rly/s...tubeStock.html

The beautifully designed R-Stock of the District Line, they survived until the early 1980's before being replaced by the D-Stock. These used to rattle past my house when I was a kid and probably are to blame for my love of the Tube and consequently my career choice!:





The CO/CP Stock which was basically an R-Stock painted red... they were withdrawn before the R-Stock, but I still just remember them. Look at the way the train "flares" out at the bottom of the cars at platform level... one of the many quirky little Art Deco touches that made these trains so beautiful:



1938 Stock, worked on numerous lines but ended its days on the Bakeloo Line where it survived until the 1980s. It was similar to the 1959 Stock with the obvious exception of it being bright red, but closer inspection reveals fine Art Deco detailing that was left off the 1959 stock:





Its withdrawal from London Underground in the 1980s wasn't the end, though... It lives on on the Isle of Wight in the English Channel where it is the train of choice on their railway:

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Old November 14th, 2004, 07:29 PM   #3
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Great thread! I remember that old stock on the Northern Line, it was indeed quite gloomy.

My favorite stock is the 1992 stock, with its large windows. Too bad they didn't keep that feature for the 1995/1996 stock.
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Old November 14th, 2004, 08:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertigo
My favorite stock is the 1992 stock, with its large windows. Too bad they didn't keep that feature for the 1995/1996 stock.
I agree... Apparently it was because Customer feedback on the 1992 Stock was that people disliked the "Hall of Mirrors" effect when looking at your reflection in the opposite window. Pretty daft if you ask me; it means you can't see much when above ground as the now flat windows are much smaller in height.
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Old November 14th, 2004, 10:54 PM   #5
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The 1992 stock looks like Sci-fi. And the 1970s tube stock must've looked very impressive and futuristic back then. What a unique shape...too bad the ceiling height is so low! I kept hitting my head =(
London Underground has a lot of character, despite some of the cut/cover stock looking very old, like tin boxes (I have a thing against those New-York-style trains). Even though I'm more used to cutting-edge (bleeding edge?) systems like Hong Kong, I found myself wanting to ride the Underground as often as I could when I was in London this past summer.

Who makes the trains, by the way?
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Old November 15th, 2004, 02:08 AM   #6
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The different stocks were built by various companies; Cravens (in Gloucester I think) built the A60 Stock, most if not all of the other older stocks were built by Metro-Camell in Birmingham. The 1992 Stock was built by BREL (British Rail Engineering Ltd) in Yorkshire (either Doncaster or Sheffield, I forget) and the 1995 and 1996 stocks were built by GEC Alsthom in Birmingham, who bought Metro-Camell a few years back.

They were refurbished by various companies, some being transported as far as Scotland for refurbishment! The Refurbishment has made a huge difference to the trains, so much so that most customers assume them to be totally new trains... I'll try to hunt down some before/after photos of the interiors as before refirbishment the trains were grey and gloomy inside... pretty unpleasant.

One thing's for sure, none were built anywhere near London!
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Old November 15th, 2004, 02:52 AM   #7
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Ok a before and after... The Piccadilly Line 1973 Stock refurbished around 5 years ago by Bombardier in Doncaster...

Before... Grotty:





After... Fabulous:









The main innovations are cream (as opposed to battleship grey and canary yellow) interiors, Piccadilly Line Blue and bright yellow grabrails (as opposed to bare metal), windows cut into car ends for better security, scrolling dot matrix destination above each bank of seats, new luggage areas with padded "perch seats", new vinyl flooring (as opposed to old wooden slats), Digitised Voice Announcement (DVA), and an exterior paint job to corporate livery.

All other stocks have been refurbished to the same much more cheerful standards, except the D78 stock which is just about to start being delivered back to us refurbished.
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Last edited by Tubeman; November 15th, 2004 at 08:49 AM.
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Old November 15th, 2004, 02:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superchan7
the 1970s tube stock must've looked very impressive and futuristic back then.
The Victoria Line must have been astounding when it first opened; the first section opened in 1968 and has always been fully automatic. It reaches speeds of up to 100kmh and as you say the simple but futuristic design of the trains must have seemed really space-age in the late 1960's compared to the rattly old trains that were still clinging on from the 1920's and 30's.

How the 1967 Stock looked before refurbishment... Because they are unpainted aluminium when they were brand new they were really silvery so must have looked very futuristic:

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Old November 15th, 2004, 03:00 AM   #9
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Do the London automated stock run by SECAM/ATO? [The one that MTR (Hong Kong) runs on....

Could anyone enlighten me with the details of ATO vs ATP?

What are the costs involved in setting up a signalling system like that? Would it be too costly to setup in a sytem such as Melbourne or Sydney?
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Old November 15th, 2004, 03:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal_t
Do the London automated stock run by SECAM/ATO? [The one that MTR (Hong Kong) runs on....

Could anyone enlighten me with the details of ATO vs ATP?

What are the costs involved in setting up a signalling system like that? Would it be too costly to setup in a sytem such as Melbourne or Sydney?
I have no idea as to the ins and outs of the ATO system suffice to say I presume that the Victoria and Central Lines employ very different systems as one dates back to the 1960's and the other to the 1990's.

ATO = Automatic Train Operation
ATP = Automatic Train Protection

ATO is a complete system for automatically operating trains, which by definition includes ATP to prevent trains from driving into each other.

ATP would be found on lines which still are manually driven, but where human error is eradicated (virtually) by having the responsibility for responding to signals ultimately down to the ATP system... i.e. if the driver drives through a red signal, the train will automatically stops. With ATO the driver wouldn't have been driving the train in the first place.

In short, ATO lines have no visible signals to speak of as the drivers (if there are any) don't actually drive the trains. ATP lines have to have signals as the trains are manually driven, but they are associated with either signal or train (or both) borne equipment that stops the train in the event of it passing a red signal. All Metros worth their salt that aren't ATO must have ATP due to the frequency and spacing of trains... although criminally mainline railways in the UK have no ATP to speak of, causing several fatal crashes in recent years.

To totally overhaul the Melbourne Metro or Sydney Cityrail to make them ATO would cost an absolute bomb, but I think that all metros will one day be ATO. I suppose the logical way of doing it is line by line, coinciding with major track overhaul... this is the way that it is being done here in London.

The Victoria Line was built with ATO, the Central Line was converted a few years ago, and next it will be the Jubilee and Northern Lines as their trains are designed to run with ATO. The Bakerloo and Piccadilly Lines will follow when they get new trains (who knows when though?) and I presume the Sub-Surface Lines (District, Metropolitan, Circle etc Lines) will be at the back of the queue.
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Old November 15th, 2004, 04:05 AM   #11
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Thank you for the pics. They bring me a lot of memories when I was living in London over 20 years ago.
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Old November 15th, 2004, 04:45 AM   #12
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After visiting the Transport For London's website, which is nicely designed IMO, I realized just how tight the Underground's Tunnels are. Sad, no air conditioning, but London doesn't get that hot right...

Which lines were built with bigger sized tunnels (modern day standards) and is there air conditioning in the trains running thru these tunnels? And will they have them in future?

Cause for the tighter tunnels it seems pretty unlikely from what I read that there will ever be air conditioning in the near future (10-20 years).
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Old November 15th, 2004, 05:11 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignoramus
After visiting the Transport For London's website, which is nicely designed IMO, I realized just how tight the Underground's Tunnels are. Sad, no air conditioning, but London doesn't get that hot right...

Which lines were built with bigger sized tunnels (modern day standards) and is there air conditioning in the trains running thru these tunnels? And will they have them in future?

Cause for the tighter tunnels it seems pretty unlikely from what I read that there will ever be air conditioning in the near future (10-20 years).
Sadly London gets horrifically hot & humid every Summer without fail; there will always be spell or two / three of 30C+ (32 or 33C is typical) every year now, and Summer before last it reached 38C with very high humidity. Down on the un-airconditioned deep-level "tube" lines which are up to 80m below ground level it get ridiculously hot when its busy, you literally need a shower after getting off.

As you can tell from the photos in the first post, some trains are the size of normal overground trains (A, C and D Stocks) whilst the others are tiny in comparison (1967, 1972, 1973, 1992, 1995 & 1996 stocks)... I'll try and find a photo of two side by side to illustrate the huge difference.

The Metropolitan and District Lines were originally built as "proper" railways (they were steam-hauled) that happened to be largely in tunnel through central London. The Hammersmith & City, East London and Circle Lines are all essentially the product of these two companies (as well as the Metropolitan and District Lines, obviously). All five lines have tunnels large enough to accommodate mainline trains that lie just below street level; they were built by using the hugely disruptive "Cut and Cover" method where basically an enormous trench was dug for the railway which was then covered back up again (usually with a road). Therefore these trains are much larger than the "Tube" stocks and I personally see no good reason whatsoever why they can't have Air Conditioning installed as there are numerous gaps in the tunnel originally built to allow steam and smoke to escape from the steam engines... the heat from the Air Con units could escape here.

The "Tube" Lines came after the "Cut and Cover" Lines (from 1890 onwards) and are bored using a tunnelling machine (Greathead Shield), hence the round tunnels "Tubes" into which the trains pretty ingeniously fit. They have a tight diameter really just to minimise the amount of tunnelling required; excavating a bored tunnel to main line train dimensions would involve easily twice the volume of spoil. There are no ventilation shafts to speak of and the tunnels are hot enough as it is not to have trains running through with Air Con units belching out heat.
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Old November 15th, 2004, 08:50 AM   #14
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Really interesting thread. What an interesting job you have. thanks!
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Old November 15th, 2004, 10:16 AM   #15
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Yeah, those tube tunnels are quite small...the trains barely fit, and the trains aren't that big in cross-section by metro standards!
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Old November 15th, 2004, 10:37 AM   #16
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Here's a very unique and interesting photo that illustrates how tiny the Tube Stock trains are in comparison to normal trains:



At Chiswick Park Eastbound in 1993 an unrefurbished Piccadilly Line 1973 Stock overtakes the historic electric Loco "Sarah Siddons" hauling a rake of coaches on the District line to celebrate the line's 125th birthday.

Sarah Siddons and other locos in her class hauled Metropolitan Line Trains into Buckinghamshire into the 1960's, Sarah Siddons is the only one preserved as far as I know.
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Old November 15th, 2004, 11:18 AM   #17
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LOL, nice pic.
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Old November 15th, 2004, 02:28 PM   #18
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Old November 15th, 2004, 05:31 PM   #19
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That's exactly the sort of photo I was trying find but couldn't, well done Nick!

Westbound Metropolitan Line Train passes a Piccadilly Line Train reversing in the terminal siding at Rayner's Lane:



The Metropolitan Line A-Stock feel bigger than the D-Stocks and C-Stocks even... I think the bodies are wider? The Metropolitan Railway was built to Great Western Railway Broad Gauge (7" as opposed to the standard 4'8"!) originally so the tunnels are significantly wider than those of the District Line.
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Old November 15th, 2004, 06:19 PM   #20
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I can understand why they were building tiny tunnels in the 1890's, but why did they continue to build small tunnels on lines built later when it was actually possible to build larger ones?
Also, why are London trains so short? According to what I've read, the 6 car trains on cut & cover lines are about 300ft and tube 6 car trains are about 350 ft.
Consider that New York's IRT platforms, which are the shortest in the system, are about 525 ft long. (BMT platforms are 615 ft and IND are 660 ft)
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