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Old Oak Common & Park Royal City/Transport Hub/Regeneration

273K views 1K replies 75 participants last post by  Vulcan's Finest 
#1 ·
http://www.fulhamchronicle.co.uk/fu...on-high-speed-rail-hub-vision-82029-29536176/

The above brings together all the ideas that have been floating around about OCC. One interesting mention is that Sir Terry Farrell is calling the redevelopment Park Royal City. In the video, there can be seen what appears to be a cross between DLR & Croydon Tram. Is this indicitive of the North & West London Light Rail getting tacit support?

London Reconnections has a report on this.
 
#294 ·
I'm a little skeptical about the Dudden Hill services. I suppose it's all about the connectivity at OOC - because there are no main destinations at either end.

No doubt it would be wired, and with a better line speed though, but where would interim stations be?

A Harlesden interchange, ok. Then somewhere along Church Road, a Neasden area stop and somewhere near Cricklewood Bus Garage - both good for the retail parks/Ikea etc... I suppose.

The other way, I always hoped might be for a tube or Crossrail extension to Hounslow - followed by a direct tunnel to Heathrow. I'm not convinced, but with the right interchanges, perhaps it'll be worthwhile.

--

NNML - yes, does seem a shame. Could the West Ealing - Greenford shuttles feasibly run further, to Gerrards Cross and High Wycombe? If so, that would open up a lot of places to Crossrail, and the Central line connection to OOC would be there. I am still hoping the Central line at North Acton is shifted a bit towards the NLL.
 
#297 ·
I'm a little skeptical about the Dudden Hill services. I suppose it's all about the connectivity at OOC - because there are no main destinations at either end.

No doubt it would be wired, and with a better line speed though, but where would interim stations be?

A Harlesden interchange, ok. Then somewhere along Church Road, a Neasden area stop and somewhere near Cricklewood Bus Garage - both good for the retail parks/Ikea etc... I suppose.

The other way, I always hoped might be for a tube or Crossrail extension to Hounslow - followed by a direct tunnel to Heathrow. I'm not convinced, but with the right interchanges, perhaps it'll be worthwhile.


The outer London boroughs want an orbital service that connects their radial routes together. HS2 has fortuitously come along, to possibly deliver that.
 
#321 ·
Don't know about strong views, but it seems like a waste to me. The DC lines are quite sleepy but mostly run through densely urban areas...not sure if there's much of an improvement Crossrail can offer them that would fill up a 10-car train that a more frequent DC service couldn't offer (i.e. more frequent service would probably attract more extra custom than the same frequency with trains twice as long).

It's even less useful with the AC lines, as they already have 12-car trains, so Crossrail trains would mean losing two carriages, unless the connection was part of the works to activate the passive extra platform space in the core. Crossrail isn't going to be able to improve the frequency of them either, as they aren't constrained now, with plenty of platforms at Euston and at the various turnbacks along the line out to Northampton.

I'll tell you where is constrained though - Marylebone. ...and whilst the 10 car initial units would probably still be over-provision...the speed improvements of AC would go down very well in High Wycombe, giving an opportunity for much greater modal shift. ;)
 
#328 ·
I didn't think the Tring and MK slows were 12 car, only the trains fast to Leighton Buzzard?

Crossrail will be 12 car by the time a WCML branch opens anyway. And there would still be some peaks to Euston.

I think it's an excellent plan. Access to LHR from the whole WCML will be so much better.
 
#336 ·
Having the 6 HS2 platforms below ground level in a station box certainly doesn't lend itself to that arrangement, which in this instance I don't think would be terribly useful anyway - unlike a cross-platform interchange with another metro-type service, those heading north on HS2 may have to get a train from any one of 3 platforms and wait some time for it to arrive.

Chris
 
#342 · (Edited)
I'm unclear about the GWML Crossrail stopping patterns, but will the fast/main lines at OOC (4 platforms) be full, or can they take some Crossrail trains, to leave more room for terminators (after any WCML connection opens) on the slow/relief lines (4 platforms)?

(Where will the 'fastest' GWML and Heathrow Crossrail trains stop?)

Otherwise, can you reliably turn around terminating trains dozens of times a day in the 15 minutes between WCML trains (which are also not always on time)?

I also imagine that a Crossrail train will sometimes find a big crowd of ex-HS2 passengers wanting to get on, just as it wants to leave.

.
 
#347 ·
the GWML should have been widened to 6 tracks. Crossrail should be building an additional pair to Heathrow and leaving the GWML alone
Because this isn't happening, how about another option that also provides alternative route options across west London: Crossrail to Windsor Lines via Acton Central, and GWML to Windsor Lines via Brentford.

This little swap gets over the tight four-track section through Ealing Broadway. Six-tracking from Southall west to Airport Jn is practically done anyway.

Having said that, perhaps the real constraint on GWML services is the need for a mix of express, semi-fast and local services in four tracks. Would an alternative Up Up Down Down formation help with this?
 
#348 ·
When you have decided what you want to happen at Old Oak Common, perhaps you ought to tell the London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham.

Normally all comments are listed in a report, with the local planning authority's comments alongside.

Since they are reviewing "issues and options" you really have an almost clean sheet, particularly since the London Plan is also up for review, so there is less chance of a London-wide policy overriding any cunning little plan that you want to put forward.

You can of course share your thoughts on this thread.



ISSUES AND OPTIONS FOR REVIEW

Park Royal/Old Oak Area

The Government has announced proposals for a High Speed 2 station at Old Oak Common that would connect to Crossrail and the Great Western Main Line. This would dramatically increase transport access in the area and open up opportunities for regeneration and development. The current Core Strategy policy for the Park Royal/Old Oak area does not set out a framework that would facilitate this regeneration and development potential. The council therefore considers it is appropriate to commence a review of this policy.

The council and other boroughs have prepared a draft 30 Year Vision document that sets out a possible way forward for the regeneration of this area. The Vision seeks to capitalise on the dramatic improvements to the accessibility of the area that the HS2 and Crossrail proposals would bring. The vision proposes to relocate the Powerday and European Metal Recycling waste recycling sites, as well as making changes to the regional transport network, which may have an impact on other Local Authorities within the South East.

A link to the Vision is set out below:
www.london.gov.uk/oldoak

As part of the Local Plan review process the council is seeking views on this Vision and on options for regeneration. For example:
  • Should mixed use regeneration be encouraged at Park Royal/Old Oak?
  • What do you think are the issues that regeneration in the area should tackle?

Other policy review topics

The review of policies for the Park Royal/Old Oak area will have implications for the rest of the borough, ranging from housing supply to the provision of sites for the management of waste. The council has also identified a number of other policy areas which it thinks should be reviewed.

Do you agree that the following policy topics listed below would benefit from review?
  • Regeneration Area policies, where appropriate;
  • Housing numbers, in light of the development opportunities within the Park Royal/Old Oak area and the review of the other Regeneration Area policies;
  • Hammersmith town centre – review of regeneration opportunities, with possible reference to “A4 road proposals” and the “flyunder”;
  • Employment policy and business generation;
  • Infrastructure needed to support increased growth in the borough, particularly in the Park Royal/Old Oak area;
  • Planning policy for traveller sites;
  • Planning policy for waste management; and
  • Amalgamation of the Core Strategy and Development Management Local Plan into one
  • Local Plan
Are there any other issues that the council should be looking at?
Written comments on the proposed Local Plan review can be made online at
http://lbhf.limehouse.co.uk/portal/ or sent by email or post to:
  • Email address: localplan@lbhf.gov.uk
  • Post address: Trevor Harvey, Development Plans, Planning Division, Town Hall Extension, King Street

Comments must be received by 6th September 2013
 
#352 ·
It's probably worth noting these comments from Crossrail's Terry Morgan at a recent Select Committee hearing into HS2

"...It may not be obvious, but at Old Oak Common we have had to work with HS2 quite heavily, because when HS2 comes along, there will be a new interchange station at Old Oak Common to interchange with Crossrail and it is really important that we do nothing that frustrates the plans for HS2. We have done a certain amount of work in terms of design changes to ensure that we facilitate the arrival of HS2 at some stage in the future. The relationship is very strong. By working together, we have made some changes to the design at Old Oak Common for the better."

Chris
 
#353 ·
We have done a certain amount of work in terms of design changes to ensure that we facilitate the arrival of HS2 at some stage in the future.
Have the builders been told? They are legally and contractually obliged to build the scheme as defined by the Act unless changes are formally made.

For instance they are starting to build sidings at Maidenhead which will be made redundant by the Reading rebuild, GWML electrification and TfL/Network Rail's service pattern modifications, citing "well, we haven't been told otherwise and thus have to build them"
 
#356 ·
Fulham and Chelsea are considered west London clubs, despite their SW postcode. In terms of sphere (location and fanbase), QPR will still firmly be a west London club, despite just falling in the NW area.

It's a different sphere to N5 vs N17.
 
#357 ·
QPR was of course originally a NW London club, NW10 specifically - so moving to that area wouldn't be an issue really. It would be a homecoming!

Shepherds Bush to Willesden Junction is about 5-10 mins both by train and road, it's not far at all.

I grew up in NW and many people supported QPR. There's no relevant distinction here between W and NW worth discussing..
 
#362 ·
I was just playing devils advocate.In truth I'd class willesden junc/ooc as west ldn, the a5 is the divide to the south and west of the a5 I'd class as west i.e harlesden, willesden, kilburn, cricklewood, harrow, wembley etc and to the north and east of the a5 I'd class as part of north i.e edgware, Camden, hendon,st johns wood etc.
 
#368 ·
Unless you're going to Victoria itself and within walking distance of there, it doesn't make a great difference. There would be an onward journey.

And let's be honest - people who are willing to travel by coach will go wherever you site the damn thing. It's not the most discerning mode!
 
#371 ·
From the south east of London and Kent lots of trains go to Victoria or are a simple change at Lewisham. OOC common requires a tube after a train ride - another couple of quid and longer journey. With coach and train prices not that far apart in advance it would sway some to just takes the train instead depending on the destination, including me. For example going to Wales, Birmingham or the South west where advance rail tickets are only a few quid more than coaches but currently the stations are further (Paddington, Marylebone, Euston) and require a tube. Remove that advantage the coach has and no point using it.
 
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