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Blackpool | Tram System | U/C

388K views 1K replies 127 participants last post by  Johnny de Rivative 
#1 ·
I thought it was time Blackpool Trams had a thread.

Currently the 12 mile Tram line is closed for the first time in it's 120 year history whilst the track is relaid.

It's a massive job and is due to be completed by Easter, the new track will be able to carry the planned introduction (when the government eventually coughs up the cash) of the new Light Rail Low Floor Trams as seen in cities like Nottingham etc.

Apart from the new Trams, the other long term plan is to build an extension to Blackpool North Train station as part of the Talbot Gateway Project: http://www.reblackpool.com/reblackpool/pages/DMBlogsPage.aspx?PageID=503

Passanger wise, the Blackpool Tram system carries around 6.5 million people a year and is an essential form of transport between North Shore and South Shore and Blackpool and Cleverleys and Fleetwood.

I took some photo's last week of the current work and I will be amazed if they can complete the work and have the line open by Easter. For as hard as they are working and they are working really hard in some terrible conditions, the trackbeds are flooding before they can relay the concrete support base:

This picture is at Central Pier:



This picture is at Bispham and really shows the flooding, it's like a bomb has gone of:



no it's not a canal, it's a trambed somewhere under there:



Here is Bispham station:



and here is an engineer trying to pump the water out:



Despite of the rain, progress was being made, here is the scene out side Cliffs Hotel on the North Shore on Sunday:



and by Wednesday, most of the track was in position to be laid:



I'll add more info and pictures of Blackpool's tram network over the months to come.

One of the reasons I'm moving to Blackpool is because of the Tram system there, it's the Daddy of all tram systems.
 
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#2 ·
Blackpool's luxurious luck was to keep the tram. The bad luck is that it will struggle to compete for Whitehall money when other bigger and arguably more attractive and pressing LRT schemes are afloat.

However you could imagine a very progressive idea of building on the existing scheme by having spurs off to the station, football ground and the airport.

There is also scope to have a tram/train scheme that embracing the current heavy rail lines via the two town centre stations to Preston as well as that little used goods line to Fleetwood.

However unsure about the economic argument. What do people say? Certainly Blackpool needs a renovation. But are people outside the town bothered enough?
 
#11 · (Edited)
Very good post Heatonparkcakes and I agree with you. Like you said Blackpool did well to keep one of it's lines sadly it didn't keep the other major one which was the Marton route which took you from the North Pier, past Blackpool North station to the Hospital and right round Blackpool down to the South Pier. Blackpool like other towns had many people who thought trams were outdated and cars were the future and when the system was in major debt in the early 1960's pushed for the closure of the Lytham Road, Dickinson Road and Marton routes.

They also wanted to close the prominard route but the introduction of a fleet of single trams with no conductors was able to keep the tram system going until better times when public transport would be appreciated.

Blackpool had a plan to convert the disused rail line to Fleetwood and turn the trainline from Blackpool South to Lytham into a tramline and convert the Blackpool to Fleetwood line into a modern Low Floor Light Rail system, sadly this plan was rejected by Alistair Darling.

This was the proposed map:



So you are right Blackpool will be left to it's own devices and can't really expect too much help from central government. The work that is going on at the moment has been jointly paid for by the Dep of transport, Blackpool Council and Lancashire Council and I feel the way forward for Blackpool will be to continue to do things on the cheap and probably buy these Liverpool made trams:



Sadly this one caught fire during a trial, but has been fully repaired and will be back to continue it's trial in 2008 winter.

The good news is that Blackpool Transport made a profit of 5 million pounds last year and that it will continue to invest in it's tram system and in time will probably rebuild the line to Blackpool North Station from the pier as it's a key part of it's regeneration scheme, but it will probably have to build it with it's own money and like most things in Blackpool on the cheap and using inovative ideas like new light rail technology.
 
#7 ·
Everyone loves the balloon trams, the problem is 35 per cent of Blackpool's tourist trade is made up of elderly people who really struggle to get on them as the steps are too high.

The Balloon trams will always be around as they carry alot of people and have out lived their replacement trams (the corronation trams) by 40 years so far and will probably do so again.
 
#6 ·
The ultimate plan for the double deckers (balloon tram) when the new Light Rail trams come will be to run them partly at weekends during the tourist season, where you will have a combination of new Low Floor Light Rail Trams and traditional trams.

I'm a bit pushed for time at the moment but will post a review of the sort of tram Blackpool will ultimately get, like most things it will probably have to be done on the cheap, although that's why I like the place you really do get the impression the tram network is held together by tape and glue, it's ingenuity city to keep the whole system going.
 
#8 ·
I've been looking into the history of the tram systems across the country not just blackpool. In many places the travelling public wanted to keep the trams, they just asked whether the systems could with the help of government money for rebuilding after WW2 and refurbishment, of course the government said No, so the councils who in many cases were the owners of the networks refused to keep systems that cost more money to keep running then fares were bringing in.

I think its ironic that many places - taking Sheffield as my example (my hometown) there was a plan to reintroduce a new generation of trams within 10 years of it closing in 1960.

Blackpool was fortunate, that it kept a significant proportion of its network as it was a growing tourist attraction, but parts were closed throughout the 1960s however as Zimflyer could possible confirm that in more recent years the future hasn't always been secure, if I remember correctly, at one point during the 1980/90's the central part was earmarked for closure.

If the government is serious about reducing the number of cars on the nations roads then public transport needs much more money in the annual budgets.

It is costing the government £25bn to bale out Northern Rock which could be spent on transport issues, with this amount of money construction could start on many of the most pressing transport issues we have, such as Crossrail, Manchester's Big Bang, Edinburghs Trams and those in Bristol, Leeds, Hampshire as well as other ideas and extensions in London, Sheffield, Liverpool and Glasgow, and would provide initial funding for other areas to explore ideas.
 
#9 ·
I think they are great and it would really be worth investing in the system. I'd love to see them replace the trackbed with a grassy one like on parts of the bordeaux and other trams. It would bring a nice bit of green to the prom and freshen up its grimy image. Like this:



As I said on the P&C I think the tram would be great if extended to Lytham and over a ribble crossing to Southport.
 
#14 ·
Finally after years of set back and risk of closure, Blackpool is to recieve 85.3 million pounds to convert the system in to a modern Light Railway which will also include 16 modern Trams.

The money will be made up of

£60.3 million from the government and a combined
£25 million from Blackpool and Lancashire Councils.

http://media.netpr.pl/notatka_92794.html


This is the best news ever and will be essential for Blackpool's long term success and is worthy of a banana: :banana:


I'll post more information as regards time scales as I find out about it.
 
#16 ·
Good for you. Any idea how Blackpool persuaded Whitehall to cough the cash up? Maybe (erm) they read these forums.

For those who cant open up the link
Blackpool's iconic tram set for £85million upgrade
PRNewswire-GNN London 1 February

London, 1 February /PRNewswire-GNN/ --

DEPARTMENT FOR TRANSPORT News Release (018) issued by The Government News
Network on 1 February 2008
Plans to move forward with a £85.3 million refurbishment of the historic
Blackpool and Fleetwood tram system were announced by Transport Minister
Tom Harris today, with the Government contributing £60.3million to the scheme.

The upgrade will bring the network up to 21st century standards and
boost regeneration of the area. This investment is the centrepiece of the
Government's forthcoming response to the Blackpool Task Force report which
recommended ways to regenerate the area.

Improvements will include refurbishment of the track and tram stops out to
Fleetwood, as well as 16 new fully accessible trams. The historic trams will
continue to serve Blackpool's famous seafront promenade.

Today's decision means that Blackpool Council can now start detailed planning
for the work. Subject to successful procurement of the materials required,
the full refurbishment could start in late 2009.

Rail Minister Tom Harris said:

"At over 120 years old, the Blackpool and Fleetwood tramway is part of the
local heritage as well as an important part of the local transport system.

"I want to make sure that tourists and local people alike can continue to
enjoy the tram in years to come and make sure it lies at the heart of the
town's current regeneration plans.

"We will continue to work with the Blackpool Council, Lancashire County Council
and local MPs so they can deliver a modern tramway that is attractive to
passengers and value for money for the taxpayer. I am glad that we are working
towards safeguarding the future of this iconic system for future generations."

Communities Secretary Hazel Blears :devil::devil:added:

"This tram investment is a huge boost for Blackpool and an important part
of our package of measures in response to the Blackpool Task Force report.
I am determined to ensure that we do everything possible to boost jobs,
skills, transport and regeneration in Blackpool."

The Blackpool and Fleetwood Tramway carries nearly 4 million passenger trips
a year, around 75% of which are visitors to Blackpool.

Blackpool's good news comes on the same day that Tom Harris also announced
the final go-ahead for a £102million package of improvements to Manchester
Metrolink.

Notes to Editors

1. The Government has already contributed £11.8 million for emergency works
to the tram.

2. Blackpool's tram system consists of a single route from Starr Gate near
the South Pier, along the promenade and then to Fleetwood.

3. Government's contribution to the scheme is capped at £60.3 million with
Blackpool and Lancashire Councils contributing £25 million between them.

4. The Blackpool Task Force was established to review "the totality of
economic, social and environmental development plans in the Blackpool
area." (Statement by Tessa Jowell MP, 28 March 2007)

5. The Blackpool Task Force members are the Northwest Development Agency,
Blackpool Council, ReBlackpool, English Partnerships and the Government
Office for the North West.

6. The report was published in July 2007 and is available here:
http://www.nwda.co.uk/news--events/press-releases/200701/task-force-report-proposes-a-n.aspx

7. The Government has been working with Blackpool and regional agencies
to develop responses to its recommendations. An overall response will be
published in the coming weeks.

Press Enquiries: 020 7944 3066
Out of Hours: 020 7944 4292
Public Enquiries: 020 7944 8300
Department for Transport Website: http://www.dft.gov.uk
 
#17 ·
Good for you. Any idea how Blackpool persuaded Whitehall to cough the cash up? Maybe (erm) they read these forums.
exactly heatonparkincakes, I remember your words from last week about Blackpool being unlikely to get help from government and when you said it I totally agreed with you and thought yep the solution will have to come from within Blackpool.

I think they have been lobbying Westminster for ages and have scaled the plans back and back and have tried to raise local funding, they have also been running lots of publicity campaigns saying the line was threatened with closure. I think the two local Labour MP's helped as well as their seats would have been threatened if the money didn't come through.

Good news for Blackpool. I'll look forward to seeing what the new trams look like.
I've heard and this is only a rumour that they were looking at 16 trams from Skoda at a million pounds each.

Timescale wise, it looks like it will take five years to complete (as most of the work will be done during each winter) which includes organising the contracts and tenders, the Fleetwood line will be the hardest bit as it's all urban. If the bids can be organised quickly (which I doubt), work could start winter 2008, realistically it will be November 2009.
 
#18 ·
This article is from todays Blackpool Gazette, to summarise it construction is to start in November 2009 and will last four years. There will be a tram every 10 minutes instead of the current 20 and some of the older trams will be refurbished to be used during peak season when the trams are packed.

All of the platforms will be slightly raised from the ground so as to allow easy access for wheelchairs and prams.

Advertisments will go out in the European press for an invitation to tender some time in the spring.

This is so exciting and I've been buzzing for the last 24 hours :)

http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/blackpoolnews/Stateoftheart-tram-system-four-year.3737541.jp

BLACKPOOL'S new state-of-the-art tram system will be completed within four years.
That is the confident prediction of transport chiefs after the Government rubber-stamped an £85m upgrade of the resort's famous and much-loved network.

The funding, as exclusively revealed in yesterday's Gazette, will see a full revamp of the line, 16 modern trams brought into service, an extension of the Rigby Road depot and the refurbishment of tram stops.

Work is expected to start on the improvements late next year and be completed by 2012.

Steve Burd, managing director of Blackpool Transport, said: "This investment from the Government will guarantee the long term future of the tramway.

Great

"It is essential and it is great that it has now at long last been achieved."

The Government will contribute £60.3m to the overall £85.3m cost, with Blackpool Council and Lancashire County Council putting in around £12.5m each.

The cash is on top of the £11.8m the Government gave two years ago to fund emergency repairs.

The best heritage trams will be retained under the scheme, but commuters will benefit from a new fast link service.

It is planned to carry out all the improvements between the end of the Illuminations and Easter during the three years of the programme so that the line remains open during the summer season.

A European-wide procurement process will now begin, but the new trams are expected to be 30 metres long and capable of carrying around 80 seated passengers, with additional wheelchair and pushchair space.

They will be low floor trams with full disabled access and will pull up at one foot high boarding platforms.

Once a manufacturer is chosen, a prototype will be built and tested before the first of the new vehicles start carrying passengers.

And once production begins, the trams are expected to be delivered at the rate of two a month.

They will be able to travel at a maximum speed of 70km per hour but will largely operate at significantly lower speeds for safety reasons. However trams will be given priority at road junctions to help speed up journeys.

The service will run at 10-minute intervals and the journey time from Squires Gate to Fleetwood will be around 55 minutes, compared to the current 64 minutes.

Additional trams from the historic fleet will also be refurbished to run extra services between Starr Gate and Cleveleys at busy times and for special excursions.

The Rigby Road depot will be rebuilt and extended on to Blundell Street car park to fit the new fleet and maintenance facilities in, and overhead electrical wiring will be upgraded to deliver more current to the new trams.

Philip Higgs, of the Lancashire Transport Trust, said: "It is good the scheme aims to mix new trams with the heritage trams which are an iconic part of Blackpool, but travellers want something more modern to ride on for an all-year round service."
 
#19 ·
I expect this is a political payoff for Blackpool being done over with the Supercasino decision.

With Blackpools economy seeming more fragile than ever the closure of tram system would be seen as wanton neglect by many.

Blackpool was long the only city in the UK with a tram system, and for many a visit to Blackpool during a family holiday, has a ride on its clackity old trams firmly lodged in their minds. It would almost seem a betrayal of those old memories to let the trams die in Blackpool. While this may seem a strange reason to keep the tram in Blackpool. I expect it had strong political pull as many MP's in the North would support their retention even though it does not affect the constituents directly.
 
#22 ·
This is brilliant news...!

Obviously government trying to silence the angry masses still vexed about having their tram and casino hopes dashed... no doubt Mancs, Scoucers and the Yorkshiremen of Leeds who have had their tram plans well and truley screwed right over will be appeased if it means at least the historic Blackpool trams the world are so fond of are saved.
 
#23 ·
I fully support this. However it is just another screwed up thing really. The government are willing to fork out money for a tram system in a town (where the tram system carries less than 7m people a year), just because there was an old-generation style tram there before, yet they can't seem to find the money to build tram networks in the major cities- Supertram was to carry over 21m people a year for example.

Still, good for Blackpool. I'm sure it would be a different story though if the trams had been taken away in the 50s.
 
#27 ·
Don't forget though Leeds No 1, we were not asking for 500 million we were asking for 60 million and the rest of the money has come from Blackpool and Lancashire councils.

The fact the system carries 6.5 million passangers when it has had so little investment bodes well for how many it will carry when it is rebuilt. Blackpool transport last year made a profit of 5 million pounds last year so the numbers of people both tourist and local using trams and buses in Blackpool is high.

The other essential thing on why the trams can justify the existance is they are essential form of transport in carrying tourists from their hotels in the north shore to the the south, they are in short a key to the existance of Blackpools illuminations and tourist industry linking up Bispham to the Pleasure Beach, the Piers, the Tower etc.

Apart from the essential work they provide in ferrying tourists from hotel to to venue, the trams are a key link to Fleetwood which does not have a train station, so much so I read in the local Fleetwood paper that the locals were saying that trade in Fleetwood is down significantly whilst the trams are closed for the winter rebuilding this year.

So I think after years of neglect, Blackpool deserves to have some money spent on it and it's a big part of our regeneration plans.

As for Leeds I'm sorry you didn't get the Supertram, you deserved it and were totally messed about, but like I said there is a big difference in 500 million and 60 million and Blackpool is expert at making a little money go along way.
 
#25 ·
Well I think that was one of their reasons, but it never really was a true reason. The main reason they pulled it, they claim, is because the costs rose to £800m. Of course, when Supertram was given the go-ahead it was less than £500m. If the government hadn't of kept delaying it, costs would have stayed below £500m (I think it was £355m? something like that). Central government refused to give the reasons for its cancellation to the City Council (Not sure how under the Freedom of Information Act..), so most local people think that the government never truly intended on ever letting Supertram go ahead. I think there is some corruption behind it somewhere; and the same can be said for all the other tram schemes that were cancelled. I don't really want to turn this into a thread about that though :S

I am very pleased to see that at least somewhere is getting investment in transport, even if it's not really for the right reasons!
 
#28 ·
Definately, it would be good if the work was kept locally, I know the last new additions to the tram fleet were converted buses built in 1977 (I think) and they were built in Preston.

What ever the design of tram we get, they will have to be very hardy trams, and able to deal with sand, rain, and sea water.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Just a brief but important update from British Trams Online today:

http://www.britishtramsonline.co.uk/feb08/newsblackpool2.html

Basically work is on course for a 17th March hand over (my birthday hoorah) and trams are due to run again on the 21st ready for Easter which is excellent news.

I'm pretty certain the company behind the construction works will win the main contract to rebuild the rest of the line starting in winter 2009, as they have been really impressive.

There are also some recent pictures of the ongoing work, including the first surface laying:

http://charlescleworth.fotopic.net/p48265256.html

and lots of work on the loop at the Pleasure Beach stop:

http://charlescleworth.fotopic.net/p48416840.html
 
#32 ·
New Trams

Contract notice issued at the end of May.

The Blackpool and Fleetwood Tramway ("Tramway") is one of the unique features of Blackpool. The Tramway is currently operated by Blackpool Transport Services Limited ("BTS"), a subsidiary of Blackpool Borough Council. Much of the current Tramway infrastructure dates from the 1930s and the Contracting Authorities are currently undertaking a programme of refurbishment of the existing infrastructure. In January 2008, the Contracting Authorities obtained programme entry approval from the Department for Transport in respect of the refurbishment of the Tramway, including the track and tramstops and the procurement of new trams for the system ("Project"). As the Contracting Authorities already have the requisite legal powers to procure the implementation of the Project, the Department for Transport has confirmed that the Contracting Authorities do not need to obtain Conditional Approval prior to launching the procurement process. As part of the Project, the Contracting Authorities wish to procure a fleet of approximately 16 new trams which will operate over the whole of the Tramway. This notice therefore advertises the procurement by the Contracting Authorities of the design, manufacture, supply and commissioning of approximately 16 trams and related spare parts and tools. Whilst the Contracting Authorities currently envisage procuring a fleet of up to approximately 16 new trams, the contract may also include an option or other mechanism (to be exercisable at the sole discretion of the Contracting Authorities) for the Contracting Authorities to subsequently procure additional trams from the successful candidate. It is envisaged that the contract may also require the successful candidate to supply spare parts and tools for a specified period from the date of commissioning of the first tram. Furthermore, this procurement may also include an option or other mechanism (exercisable at the discretion of the Contracting Authorities) for the selected tram supplier to maintain the new trams pursuant to a maintenance agreement to be entered into by the tram supplier with BTS. The contract will require all trams, spare parts and tools to be compliant with the Rail Vehicle Acessibility Regulations 1998 (as amended from time to time), Railway Safety Principles and Guidance (as amended from time to time), the requirements of the Disability Discrimination Acts 1995 and 2005 and other applicable legislation and guidance. Offers to supply the maintenance services only (i.e. without an accompanying offer to supply the trams) are not invited. The successful candidate will be required to: (1) comply with all relevant legislation including but not limited to the Rail Vehicle Acessibility Regulations 1998 together with the Railways and Other Guided Transport Systems Safety Regulations 2006 or the Railways and Other Transport Systems (Approval of Works, Plant and Equipment) Regulations 1994 (as applicable) and to assist the Contracting Authorities and the Contracting Authorities' appointed operator of the tramway in complying with their respective obligations thereunder; and (2) comply with all relevant guidance, including but not limited to the relevant parts of the Railway Safety Principles and Guidance 1996 (as amended), the Office of Rail Regulation's Safety Publication 2 "Guidance on Tramways" dated November 2006 (as amended) and any applicable Tramway Technical Guidance issued by the Office of Rail Regulation (or its successor) from time to time. Further information in respect of the proposed agreement will be provided in the pre-qualification questionnaire which may be obtained from the address specified in Annex A.I.
 
#34 ·
I didn't say small town. But the government is willing to invest in a tram line that serves an area of 300,000 people (and for the majority of people living inland isn't that useful), but isn't willing to invest in a 3 line system serving an area of over 750,000 people.

It's not a waste of money but there are priorities; infrastructure needs improving in the UKs major cities before in the towns.
 
#35 ·
I think you underestimate the condition of the Blackpool system. Its held together by scotch tape. This investment is needed right now and I think the cultural loss to this country would be very significant if one of the oldest working tramways in the world was allowed to fall by the wayside. All this is is a 60 million investment which is spent not only on the tram system but the rest of the promenade. This is peanuts. You're on about a 500 million investment. If you dont get your new lines built it is certainly not because the government spent a pittance on Blackpool.
 
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