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Thameslink

508K views 2K replies 202 participants last post by  ill tonkso 
#1 ·
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#101 ·
definitely not all of it. However the Kentish Town to Elephant/London Bridge section has appeared on the tube map before.

I wouldn't be surprised if Finsbury Park/West Hampstead-Peckham Rye/Norwood Junction appears on the TfL map (as there is no such thing as a tube map now), because all these stations interchange with Overground/Underground services. That the service south of London Bridge/Elephant will only be 4tph wouldn't matter. If Crossrail goes on, then Thameslink will.
 
#107 ·
http://www.nce.co.uk/major-projects...s-thameslink-upgrade-underway/5201362.article


The upgrade to London’s Blackfriars station is underway, with tracks taken up at the east side of Blackfriars Bridge, and a significant new temporary ticketing hall installed.


When complete in 2011, the new Blackfriars station will be the first in the capital to span the Thames, using the widened Blackfriars bridge as platforms, with new stations on both sides of the river.

Network Rail’s senior project manager for the Blackfriars upgrade, Dan Athol, said the £350M upgrade would be “challenging”.

“It will be the first new station on the south bank for more than 120 years,” he said. “There are trains above, and boats below, and we are working in the middle of London,” he said.

One milestone has already been achieved: “Key output zero is to open the temporary entrance, which has a large staircase.”

Preparations include removing the tracks on the eastern half of the bridge where trains normally terminate at Blackfriars.

The next major milestone is to construct a new bridge segment to allow for the slewing of tracks once work accelerates on the bridge, which will be slid into place around Christmas.
 
#111 ·
As a regular user of Thameslink I have to say I find the start of their programme relatively amateuristic.

It seems sometimes that the railways in this country are run by advertising people instead of engineers. A great campaign for sure but if one looks at the implementation it appears all very messy and a big difference to CTRL.

Farringdon is not a building site, it is a mess. The new bridges look as if they got all measurements wrong. Nothing fits.

In fact it seems the rule that the contractors on the Thameslink programme can leave all their mess laying around. The amount of neglected building materials laying around makes tha track a perfect playing ground for vandals. That is even more so given the contractors see no need to reinstate fences properly after they open them up.

I am also surprised by the amount of signalling and other cabling not being properly protected during the works. How much work is it really to duct it properly or attach it to walls.

Finally, a lot of the new stuff seems very cheap, such as the bridge in West Hamstead. The roof and walls are in coated foam panels. At Farringdon they are also using coated foam panels. I am a bit puzzled by the use of such cheap materials for public spaces that get used very intensively and also suffer from extensive abuse.

Maybe it is because the programme has just begun and we are seeing the smaller contractors at work. But so far the difference with CTRL could not be starker.
 
#112 ·
As a regular user of Thameslink I have to say I find the start of their programme relatively amateuristic.

It seems sometimes that the railways in this country are run by advertising people instead of engineers. A great campaign for sure but if one looks at the implementation it appears all very messy and a big difference to CTRL.

Farringdon is not a building site, it is a mess. The new bridges look as if they got all measurements wrong. Nothing fits.

In fact it seems the rule that the contractors on the Thameslink programme can leave all their mess laying around. The amount of neglected building materials laying around makes tha track a perfect playing ground for vandals. That is even more so given the contractors see no need to reinstate fences properly after they open them up.

I am also surprised by the amount of signalling and other cabling not being properly protected during the works. How much work is it really to duct it properly or attach it to walls.

Finally, a lot of the new stuff seems very cheap, such as the bridge in West Hamstead. The roof and walls are in coated foam panels. At Farringdon they are also using coated foam panels. I am a bit puzzled by the use of such cheap materials for public spaces that get used very intensively and also suffer from extensive abuse.

Maybe it is because the programme has just begun and we are seeing the smaller contractors at work. But so far the difference with CTRL could not be starker.
I hear there are genuinely huge problems at Farringdon, hence your observation... I think the contractor who was carrying out the work have gone bust or something, and there are problems with the structure of the new footbridge. I'm not 100% au fait with it, but it'll be put right I'm sure... The work at Blackfriars appears to be happening very quickly and efficiently from what I see from the 63 bus, so it must be a different contractor there.
 
#114 ·
Hendon, Cricklewood and Kentish Town to close

"First Capital Connect" have effectively confirmed that a new "Brent Cross Thameslink" station will mean the closure of three stations: Hendon, Cricklewood and Kentish Town.

FREEPOST RRBR-REEJ-KTKY
Customer Relations
First Capital Connect
PO Box 443
Plymouth
PL4 6WP
Tel: 0845 0264700
Fax: 0845 6769904
Website: www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk

Ref: 4749995

Thank you for your email of 1 July 2009 concerning services around the Wimbledon Loop and Cricklewood station forming part of the Thameslink Programme.

Plans from Network Rail and RUS (Route Utilisation Strategy) do indeed mean that through services beyond Blackfriars from the Wimbledon Loop may well cease form December 2015. This is however only within planning stage and no final conclusion has been agreed. I regret to advise you that the services/timetable for this are not yet available so I unable to comment on what trains will be used. However further information is available on the following link, and will be updated accordingly when specific details are finalised:
http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/faqs/faqs_categories/public_index#question_41

There are no plans to extend the platforms at Hendon, but we could stop 12 carriage trains because new 377 stocks have selective door opening. Again I regret I cannot offer you any guideline on the services that we can offer because the timetable is far from complete.

Consultations have taken place concerning the closure of Cricklewood station and also Kentish Town once the new station at Brent Cross is open. Regrettably this is something that is also only being considered and it will be impossible for me to comment further on the matter.

It may be best if you direct any further concerns and queries to Network Rail who will be best suited to answer your queries but the fact will remain that most onward plans of at least 3 years will be held in planning and consultation stages only, so any specific answer will be unattainable.

I trust this helps with your concerns and thank you once again for contacting First Capital Connect.

Ian Davies
Customer Relations Advisor​
 
#115 ·
Hendon, Cricklewood and Kentish Town not to close

I'm pretty certain that Ian Davies has no idea what he's talking about.

The enormous amount of public notification that's gone into the TL project *all* talks about Hendon and Kentish Town remaining open to handle 6tph from the 8-car-platform lines from Denmark Hill and Elephant & Castle.

This document from the DtTmay prove more enlightening than a memo from a press officer for a company that isn't involved with the decisions in question, reciting garbled versions of whatever he's been told to recite..
 
#116 · (Edited)
This just seems ridiculous anyway.

Even if its not the universal view its still something some people think is sensible. This is typical of NR thinking too. The MML is already underserved with stations, lacking ones at places like Scratchwood - one of the best potential parkways around - and Apex Corner, even an interchange with the northern line near to the RAF Museum in Hendon.

Some people want to have only three stations between Elstree & Borehamwood on the very edge of London and St. Pancras! Mill Hill Bdy, Brant X and West Hampstead....

Maybe it would be good if there was a metro service to Elstree with the extra stations I mentioned though i don't know where it would go in town or terminate.
 
#117 ·
This just seems ridiculous anyway.

Even if its not the universal view its still something some people think is sensible. This is typical of NR thinking too. The MML is already underserved with stations, lacking ones at places like Scratchwood - one of the best potential parkways around - and Apex Corner, even an interchange with the northern line near to the RAF Museum in Hendon.

Some people want to have only three stations between Elstree & Borehamwood on the very edge of London and St. Pancras! Mill Hill Bdy, Brant X and West Hampstead....

Maybe it would be good if there was a metro service to Elstree with the extra stations I mentioned though i don't know where it would go in town or terminate.
Quite.

The Midland Railway planned on extending it's freight lines north to St Albans, but they ended up stopping south of Mill Hill.

I believe completing these and running a metro service would provide immense benefits to the Thameslink services, which could then non-stop south of St Albans aside form West Hampstead.

New SSL tunnels from West Hampstead to Notting Hill or High St. Kensington could then enable the extension of the District's Wimbledon service to St Albans.

New stations could be provided at LUL intervals without impacting Thameslink. Thoughts?
 
#118 ·
Quite.

The Midland Railway planned on extending it's freight lines north to St Albans, but they ended up stopping south of Mill Hill.

I believe completing these and running a metro service would provide immense benefits to the Thameslink services, which could then non-stop south of St Albans aside form West Hampstead.

New SSL tunnels from West Hampstead to Notting Hill or High St. Kensington could then enable the extension of the District's Wimbledon service to St Albans.

New stations could be provided at LUL intervals without impacting Thameslink. Thoughts?
I can't really see the point of extending the District Line to St Albans. Can’t really ever see it becoming a priority especially when South London still lacks a half decent tube service.

However I think it would be a disaster if NR shut the stations in question. Kentish Town in particular offers a nice interchange with the Northern Line, which in turn actually provides the integrated transport that London often misses between the over and underground.

So if need be a metro service should be adopted that could potentially run through thameslink or simply run from St Albans to SP? And if First Capital Connect do not want to run it then LO should!
 
#119 ·
Can't they just operate skip stopping until the new station opens, if ever?

This concept is quite rare in the UK but pretty good - could arguably be used on the Shenfield line too, in some cases?

Never would a train need both Hendon and Cricklewood really.


And Kentish Town would be completely stupid. If every train and every other station was going to be 12 car, I could understand operationally, but they're not! This, if anything, will boom with better services and awareness of the network.
 
#120 ·
Never would a train need both Hendon and Cricklewood really

Both these stations are a mile from Brent X, two miles from each other and nearly 2 miles respectively from Mill Hill and West Hampstead! The population in the area is very high.

While a trip service would mean both stations staying open it would reduce frequencies rather than offer the kind of service South Londoners want, i.e. Metro ones that people will actually use.

A metro service would be welcome.

Unfortunately only West Hampstead-Scratchwood M1 could easily be made Metro out of the MML.

Looking at google 6 tracks become 4 north of Colindeep Lane but the 2 extra tracks and new stations could easily be added up to Apex corner (Northway circus on the map) but getting 2 extra tracks past Mill Hill East station is more difficult unless you make it 2 side platforms or one island one and only have Metro's stopping there.

Space for Apex Corner station could just about be carved out of the trees to the west, ditto some places further north. A strategic project like this should get through planning if there are some green bits in the way. A Scratchwood station should be possible.

Elstree itself is a bit constrained and why bother making an extra tunnel south of it - just terminate at Scratchwood.


South of West Hampstead is where MML becomes 4 tracks through the Belsize tunnels so head off due south from West Hampstead.

Wimbleware would be my choice too, or possibly H&C, but with Wimbleware you can have high frequency trains going through South London. Ideally just a new SSR or tube line into South London or take over one of those many rail routes they have :))).
 
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