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Old May 24th, 2012, 01:13 AM   #61
kingchef
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i've lived in the ham, and moved back to memphis almost 3 years ago. i like both cities, but both needed new direction w/ mayors. both got that problem solved. memphis is hated by its rich suburbs, as is b'ham hated by hoover, vestavia hills, homewood, and mountain brook. memphis proper is growing and prospering, as is its suburbs in state, as well as out of state. in fact, desoto county is the 33rd fastest growing county in the u.s., and fayette county is ranked as #87. i think most large cities, like memphis proper, is hated by suburbia. there is a big difference in inner city population of memphis and that of b'ham.

the real thing that i envy about b'ham over memphis is the setting of b'ham. it is really a pretty area. not to much mountain, but enough to enjoy; however, there is no river, unless you count the cahaba or warrior, and that's a bit of a stretch, when compared to the big m. in defense of shelby, tn, it has a great deal of rolling landscape and natural beauty, but the city would be very attractive sitting, at least in part, on some big hills...just my preference.

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Old May 26th, 2012, 09:52 PM   #62
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i've lived in the ham, and moved back to memphis almost 3 years ago. i like both cities, but both needed new direction w/ mayors. both got that problem solved. memphis is hated by its rich suburbs, as is b'ham hated by hoover, vestavia hills, homewood, and mountain brook. memphis proper is growing and prospering, as is its suburbs in state, as well as out of state. in fact, desoto county is the 33rd fastest growing county in the u.s., and fayette county is ranked as #87. i think most large cities, like memphis proper, is hated by suburbia. there is a big difference in inner city population of memphis and that of b'ham.

the real thing that i envy about b'ham over memphis is the setting of b'ham. it is really a pretty area. not to much mountain, but enough to enjoy; however, there is no river, unless you count the cahaba or warrior, and that's a bit of a stretch, when compared to the big m. in defense of shelby, tn, it has a great deal of rolling landscape and natural beauty, but the city would be very attractive sitting, at least in part, on some big hills...just my preference.
I have relatives in Collierville who were thinking about moving to DeSoto County because the Memphis government was trying to consolidate Memphis schools and schools in the suburbs into one big Shelby County school system. They said Memphis schools are really bad and they don't want their 11 year old son (my cousin) with poor quality schools.

Has this happened? or did it just blow over and nothing came out of it?
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Old May 26th, 2012, 09:55 PM   #63
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In my life I've lived in Japan, Germany, Hungary, South Carolina, Virginia, all over North Carolina, and all over California. I've now lived in North Carolina 9 years, and I must say, North Carolina seems to be the only southern state that's gotten it's shit together.

The whole South is a hellhole, and outside of Raleigh, almost all major southern cities have disgusting crime rates. I'm grateful to live in Raleigh, I moved here 2 years ago from Fayetteville, and that place is no exception to what I've said. Also, its sad to see places like Charlotte that are so nice, yet have such horrible areas and high crime rates. The South needs a savior, glad to see its starting to get some attention.

To directly answer your question though, I think the areas that DON'T need too much help are Raleigh, Atlanta (except for crime), Nashville, Northern VA, Charleston, Charlotte (once again except for crime), Asheville, and literally that's all I can think of haha. Every other city is shit, I'm just glad I go back to Cali and North to NYC for well over half the year.

I will also say the worst areas that need tremendous amount of help are ALL of Alabama and Mississippi, basically every sizable city in Louisiana, just about every major city in Florida (in terms of developing some type of culture, and lowering crime and unemployment), and a lot of small towns in between the large cities, for instance High Point in NC is about as nice as Senegal.
What?? Hellhole? Do you know why so many people from the North and the West are moving to the South? Because it's nice and people want to live here. There's more to the South than Southside Memphis or West B'ham, etc.
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Old May 29th, 2012, 10:50 PM   #64
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well, according to the stats, about as many move from desoto co, ms as move to the southern memphis metro, specifically desoto county. of course, i accept your statement about your relatives in collierville at face value, but, if you check shelby county schools, you'll find them doing very well in standardized testing and the placement testing for tennessee children. shelby county schools are considered some of the best in public schools in tennessee and the south. as for colliervillle, they do particularly well, even though a good deal of eligible public school students attend high quality private schools, which is also true for the majority of white students, asians, endo-europeans ,etc., in memphis proper, who want to avoid the city schools. their are several city schools, however, that are ranked the highest in tn. i know one is white station. the charter schools and college prep schools are all very good.

from what i have heard, desoto county schools are very acceptable to most, as far as public schools. they have the largest school system in the state of ms, as of about 3 years ago. their growth hasn't slowed, as many people are moving into the area from southern alabama, other parts of the country, and international immigrants. all of that area is experiencing explosive growth, including marshall and tate counties, because of the new manfacturing and industrial plants being built. the new hospitals will be opening soon, as will one of the high tech labs. still, i would not, if i were a tn want to give up collierville for hernando, olive branch, southaven, walls, or horn lake. perhaps your relatives want to get the little bit of farm land that is left, before the loop cuts across the counties. still, right of domain would make them subject to dealing w/right of way issues.

i have no children, but if i did i would put mine in private school in the city proper. they have excellent catholic, church of Christ, episcopal, university, etc. schools, and that is the way the majority of those who deal w/ this issue in memphis deals w/ it. the memphis city schools gave up their charter last fall, and shelby county schools will be assuming the 163,000 registered students w/in that system. that number will be added to the shelby co system, which has about 47,000 students. the suburbs are looking into forming independent school districts for their municipalities, but a court has mandated that these actions have to wait until the year that the merger plan is to begin, which is 2014. i think that more will likely place their children in private schools, if they don't get the independent school districts. you do realize that nashville-davidson county schools had to be taken over by the state because they were so poorly run and the students performing so poorly. that system has only approximately 78,000 students. i don't know how many private and home schooled. the same about shelby, i don't know how many private and home schooled students live in shelby county. i do know that memphis was the 7th largest school district in the nation.

as for the south, generally, needing a savior, i think we've done pretty well w/out one being appointed from the north, northeast, and the west. the south is now the largest sector of the u.s., and it is expected to maintain that growth through 2020, w/ 133 million residents. that will be the lions share on residents throughout the u.s. as for crime, the poster obviously doesn't have clue about the crime problems in nashville and charlotte. particularly, nashville, which has been in the top 10 fbi violent crime reports about 4 times in the last 5 to 6 years. crime occurs in the south, disproportionately amongst blacks, as much as in the north, northeast among hispanics, latinos, and blacks, and in the west, especially among hispanics and latinos. most of these chicago daily murders are gang related, the same in la, phoenix, houston ,dallas, minneapolis, detriot, miami, etc. chicago being the worst of all. so, i would not get into the south's crime rate over cities in the north and the west. people are people, no matter what color.
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Old June 7th, 2012, 01:03 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by kingchef View Post
well, according to the stats, about as many move from desoto co, ms as move to the southern memphis metro, specifically desoto county. of course, i accept your statement about your relatives in collierville at face value, but, if you check shelby county schools, you'll find them doing very well in standardized testing and the placement testing for tennessee children. shelby county schools are considered some of the best in public schools in tennessee and the south. as for colliervillle, they do particularly well, even though a good deal of eligible public school students attend high quality private schools, which is also true for the majority of white students, asians, endo-europeans ,etc., in memphis proper, who want to avoid the city schools. their are several city schools, however, that are ranked the highest in tn. i know one is white station. the charter schools and college prep schools are all very good.


you do realize that nashville-davidson county schools had to be taken over by the state because they were so poorly run and the students performing so poorly. that system has only approximately 78,000 students. i don't know how many private and home schooled. the same about shelby, i don't know how many private and home schooled students live in shelby county. i do know that memphis was the 7th largest school district in the nation.
Actually White Station and Memphis city schools are completely absent from the list of the nation's/state's top high schools. On the other hand Nashville, although it does have schools with problems, continues to top the lists of America's best schools. Hume Fogg is almost always included as one of the nation's top 50 schools and MLK makes frequent appearances as well.

For 2012 there are two lists one by US News & World Report and one by Newsweek

For US News & World Report the top public high schools in the state:
#1. Hume Fogg - MNPS Nashville (49th nationally)
#2. MLK Jr. - MNPS Nashville (80th nationally)

(Nashville MSA area schools in Williamson and Sumner Counties rounded out the top 4 and had a total of 5 schools on the list. The Memphis MSA had 2 schools from the Shelby County district (Houston at #7 and Collierville at #9) Both Knoxville and the Tri Cities had more schools on this list than Memphis.

For Newsweek:
#1. Hume Fogg - MNPS Nashville (36th nationally)
#2. MLK Jr - MNPS Nashville (90th nationally

Again, Nashville MSA area schools rounded out the top 4 and had 6 schools total on the list. Memphis had 3: Collierville at #5, Houston at #8 and Germantown at #11.
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Old July 12th, 2015, 09:51 PM   #66
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Birmingham ills

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It is a bad sign to be losing population amidst so many cities with large gains, but I kinda like the skylines of Birmingham and Memphis. They both have pretty nice density and a mix of older/classic towers with some more modern ones. I hope they all can turn things around in the near future...maybe the economy will keep improving and that will restart the southern population boom.
. Bham's ills stem from all the smaller cities that have surrounded and threaten to strangle the city. They have limited the tax bas and coupled with poor leadership in the city have caused slow to negative growth.
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Old July 12th, 2015, 10:32 PM   #67
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. Bham's ills stem from all the smaller cities that have surrounded and threaten to strangle the city. They have limited the tax bas and coupled with poor leadership in the city have caused slow to negative growth.
Are you saying that growth has been limited or declining due to an inability to annex? That has happened to other cities too without the same affect.
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Old July 12th, 2015, 10:57 PM   #68
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Throughout the US, state capitols are generally booming....and many of them have easily become the premier city in their state. (or are in the process of becoming such)

examples: Indianapolis, Columbus, Nashville, Oklahoma City, Atlanta....

But Columbia, Tallahassee, and Raleigh seemed to have been left in the dust. For some reason I keep thinking Columbia would top this list, if I were compiling this sort of thing.

A quick read on Columbia shows it to be a progressive city....a good city with lots going for it----so I don't quite understand why Greenville and Charleston (and even Myrtle Beach) get so much attention.

Of course Raleigh has a large/significant sister city that dilutes Raleigh's development, and Raleigh is indeed growing. But still, North Carolina is now a mega-state. Seems like it's capitol city's downtown and urban fabric would be kicking major ass.

Poor Tallahassee got pushed aside decades ago. (and oddly enough, I've spent a little time there, and I think it's one of Florida's nicest cities)
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Old July 12th, 2015, 11:05 PM   #69
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^it's in-state competition with Columbia's case. Charleston is more historic and coastal; Greenville is close to mountains and more "quaint." Columbia has its own brand of charm but one that's not as "generally popular" for lack of a better term.

anyway, 3 years later:

Columbia - big student housing boom in and around downtown, lots of new low and mid-rise construction with some high rise construction starting to get announced.

Birmingham - railroad park seems like a huge success. lots of downtown and southside low and mid-rise projects while conversions of historic buildings downtown continue to residential and service.

Memphis - i'm going next week with wife and baby en route to Nashville; any advice?

i'm going to stand by Jackson has the city that needs the most help; it has nice old bones, some great food (but not as many places as a city its size should have open on the weekends) but seems generally dead on the weekends except for special events.

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Old July 12th, 2015, 11:06 PM   #70
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San Diego is ok....but is too close to MX. I do not like states that border MX.
Donald Trump posts here?

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Old July 12th, 2015, 11:14 PM   #71
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Birmingham - railroad park seems like a huge success. lots of downtown and southside low and mid-rise projects while conversions of historic buildings downtown continue to residential and service.................


..........I'm going to stand by Jackson as the city that needs the most help; it has nice old bones, some great food (but not as many places as a city its size should have open on the weekends) but seems generally dead on the weekends except for special events.
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Alabama and Mississippi find themselves at #49 and #50 in almost every measurable stat of American states, don't they.

I guess we shouldn't be surprised that their main cities aren't social/economic magnets.
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Old July 13th, 2015, 08:08 AM   #72
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Alabama and Mississippi find themselves at #49 and #50 in almost every measurable stat of American states, don't they.

I guess we shouldn't be surprised that their main cities aren't social/economic magnets.
gotta disagree in part about Birmingham/Mobile and to a lesser extent Huntsville, especially when a friend's wife from Portland describes the reputation of Birmingham as "Portland of the south."

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Old July 15th, 2015, 05:30 AM   #73
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Alabama and Mississippi find themselves at #49 and #50 in almost every measurable stat of American states, don't they.

I guess we shouldn't be surprised that their main cities aren't social/economic magnets.
West Virginia says hi!
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Old July 15th, 2015, 08:05 AM   #74
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West Virginia says hi!


When I was a kid in the 60s, it was always West Virginia poverty this/West Virginia hunger that...

Ya never hear that about W. Va. these days.
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Old July 17th, 2015, 02:01 AM   #75
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Birmingham's downtown is going gangbusters with historical building restoration - early Chicago style skyscrapers being renovated into residential, hotels, restaurants. The development in the Parkside area of downtown is literally amazing - transforming from a desolate, decaying warehouse district into completely new neighborhood with restaurants, grocery store, coffee shops and the development is on fire. The Avondale section of Birmingham is another amazing story...the restaurants Brewery, pubs that have located there in the last two years has completely transformed that area. Birmingham is recognized as a leading Foodie city and it has the restaurants to back it up. Time Inc. just moved their test kitchens for two dozen magazines, web magazines to Birmingham, citing the local culinary industry and talent. Birmingham will play host to the 2021 World Games as well. A signature Marriott is under construction and a Weston has been completed downtown........The Rotary Trail pedestrian path linking Avondale to Railroad Park will bring significant development. Most people do not realize what is happening in Downtown Birmingham...an organic growth....southern hipster flair. You will be pleasantly surprised. Birmingham is well on its way of becoming a destination city for tourist looking to experience the "genuine" Southern U.S..The Dirty South....fantastic local food, a slew of historical brick buildings......Birmingham's got Soul...it's cooking and the word is getting out...finally.
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Old July 17th, 2015, 03:33 PM   #76
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When I was a kid in the 60s, it was always West Virginia poverty this/West Virginia hunger that...

Ya never hear that about W. Va. these days.
They still don't have the internet over there, so we figure if we all keep quiet and to ourselves it won't rouse anything from them thar hills.

- - - - -

In all seriousness, I assume we're talking skylines or urban development forms, no? If so, and taking into account that different cities have different needs, I'll toss my vote in with Memphis. Most other mid-sized cities in the southeast seem to be on balance with their economy and ambition, but Memphis seems lost between aiming for actual skyscrapers and modernity vs. retaining the small-scale, tight urban form of historic cities like New Orleans. It's as if the economic issues they've wrestled with over the past 2 decades have left them undecided which direction to follow.

Plus, they have great resources to pull from so it's not as if they're bereft of identity. The river, the blues and music scene, the BBQ, a big university and an NBA team. (Am I the only one that feels sad the Pyramid didn't succeed?) It's not as if they're losing business and people to another nearby, bigger city, save possibly St. Louis, but I still think there's cause for Memphis to reform and revitalize their urban core and feature some new high rises. Plus, if they could turn the corner it's a city that could truly take off, much like Oklahoma City is experiencing now.
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Old July 17th, 2015, 04:18 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by lancetop View Post


When I was a kid in the 60s, it was always West Virginia poverty this/West Virginia hunger that...

Ya never hear that about W. Va. these days.
I'll preface my comments by saying this is moreso directed towards a socio-economic assessment rather than skylines.

Minus the panhandle and maybe Huntington/Charleston, West VA is incredibly sad. I say that with an empathetic approach since I grew up in Southwest VA. We always lamented about how bad our lives were compared to NOVA and such. Then we would travel in West VA and would count our blessings, as the saying goes....

Parts of southeastern WV look like ghost towns. "Cities" and hubs of activity look like small towns with one stop sign. It's borderline creepy and immediately puts me in a state of sadness. The only comparable areas I've been to that remind me of that are parts of Northeastern SC and Southeastern NC. Albeit, I'm not as well-traveled as some of you, so you have to factor that in. I've (sadly) never visited Mississippi or Alabama :/

For skylines, I've always been disappointed with Raleigh. I know it has the big sis to the south and the Triad to the west, but still.... it has enough clout/influence and wealth to have more than it does.
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-------Newport News-182,000
--------Alexandria-149,000
---------Hampton-136,000
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Old July 19th, 2015, 04:54 AM   #78
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North Carolina Red Headed Stepchild

Fayetteville NC

Its along I-95

Next to the largest US Army base

Large River runs through it

Large HBCU and community college plus a thriving unc affiliate university just 30 minutes away

Very diverse population unlike most southern cities

But very similar to small town southern cities with all the damn retard NIMBYs that hate growth and funding mass transit.

Metro Population almost 390k
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Old July 19th, 2015, 09:31 AM   #79
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Fayetteville NC

Its along I-95

Next to the largest US Army base

Large River runs through it

Large HBCU and community college plus a thriving unc affiliate university just 30 minutes away

Very diverse population unlike most southern cities

But very similar to small town southern cities with all the damn retard NIMBYs that hate growth and funding mass transit.

Metro Population almost 390k
i did a photothread on Fayetteville in 2012; while it "needs help," downtown was much nicer than i expected and had recent housing developments and wasn't dead on a random weekday afternoon

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Old July 19th, 2015, 09:33 AM   #80
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i just got back from a small vacation with 2 nights in Memphis; it doesn't need "help" unless you're talking shiny new tower, which IMO Knoxville needs more than Memphis.

in fact, Memphis has moved into my favorite US cities and one i definitely plan on visiting again because South Main is so pedestrian friendly it reminds me of the pedestrian only zones all over Europe. the city also seemed to have cut down or reduced the aggressive panhandling which annoyed me so much when i last visited 8 years ago.

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