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Old September 11th, 2016, 11:11 PM   #21
Skanky the Boricuo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC2SD View Post
Nice photos. Nice town.
I don't understand why anyone would think "Nashville looks like a midwestern city."

Midwest cities have more history and building density because of their steel-belt, industrial and transportation economies. Most midwestern cities have large, dense warehouse districts with 4-10 story monolithic brick warehouses and historical skyscrapers.

Curious, which midwestern city(s) does Nashville even remotely remind you of?
Nashville is older than most midwestern cities. It was settled in 1779. So it has plenty of unique history and plenty of dense historic development. Unfortunately, however, it has also had more than it's fair share of unfortunate urban renewal tear downs of that historic development. It all simply has to do with when a city saw the majority of it's population growth. Cities like Nashville have seen their biggest growth spurt within the past fifty years or so, and the aesthetics of the urban fabric reflect that, for better or for worse. Aside from, perhaps, a historic tendency toward shotgun houses rather than rowhouses, the only thing that really sets your average sunbelt city apart from your average rustbelt city in terms of the built fabric is the time period in which they saw most of their growth.
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Old September 12th, 2016, 12:02 AM   #22
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Here's one Midwesterner who likes Nashville ...

http://www.urbanophile.com/2012/04/1...ille-rolls-on/
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Old September 16th, 2016, 10:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC2SD View Post
Nice photos. Nice town.
I don't understand why anyone would think "Nashville looks like a midwestern city."

Midwest cities have more history and building density because of their steel-belt, industrial and transportation economies. Most midwestern cities have large, dense warehouse districts with 4-10 story monolithic brick warehouses and historical skyscrapers.

Curious, which midwestern city(s) does Nashville even remotely remind you of?
You seem to imply that Nashville is somehow below Midwestern cities...that isn't what I meant at all when I said that it doesn't look Midwestern. Southern cities can be just as old or older, just as dense or denser, and also have large warehouse districts - those aren't traits limited to Midwestern cities. I could list many cities outside the Midwest that meet those standards - several of them in the South.

Nashville looks southern because it IS southern...and it has characteristics of all American cities. I was just saying that I don't see how it looks Midwestern. It looks like most any American city of a similar size to me.
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Old September 16th, 2016, 10:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skanky the Boricuo View Post
Nashville is older than most midwestern cities. It was settled in 1779. So it has plenty of unique history and plenty of dense historic development. Unfortunately, however, it has also had more than it's fair share of unfortunate urban renewal tear downs of that historic development. It all simply has to do with when a city saw the majority of it's population growth. Cities like Nashville have seen their biggest growth spurt within the past fifty years or so, and the aesthetics of the urban fabric reflect that, for better or for worse. Aside from, perhaps, a historic tendency toward shotgun houses rather than rowhouses, the only thing that really sets your average sunbelt city apart from your average rustbelt city in terms of the built fabric is the time period in which they saw most of their growth.
Additionally, there are lots of examples of southern cities that don't fit the "average" and the same goes for Midwestern cities. I can't imagine that urban renewal didn't affect Midwestern cities in the same way it affected Nashville...look at the loss of Jobbers Canyon in Omaha - that was a real tragedy. I just can't understand the way people think they can apply all of these standards to cities within a particular region - like each city in that region fits a certain mold. If you're talking about sunbelt cities, that goes way beyond regions and there is definitely not a common factor among them - they range from New Orleans to Miami to LA to Atlanta and everything in between.
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Old September 21st, 2016, 07:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeimieLvr View Post
You seem to imply that Nashville is somehow below Midwestern cities...that isn't what I meant at all when I said that it doesn't look Midwestern. Southern cities can be just as old or older, just as dense or denser, and also have large warehouse districts - those aren't traits limited to Midwestern cities. I could list many cities outside the Midwest that meet those standards - several of them in the South.
I didn't imply anything, you're reading your insecurities into my post.
I simply don't see from these photos how Nashville (or any southern city) has similarities to a midwest city.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WeimieLvr View Post
Southern cities can be just as old or older, just as dense or denser, and also have large warehouse districts -
"Older?" When a city is incorporated has nothing to do with anything.
Which southern cities are "just as dense or denser, and also have large warehouse districts?"


Which midwest city does Nashville remind people here of?

Last edited by KC2SD; September 21st, 2016 at 08:01 PM.
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Old September 22nd, 2016, 08:37 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by KC2SD View Post
I didn't imply anything, you're reading your insecurities into my post.
I simply don't see from these photos how Nashville (or any southern city) has similarities to a midwest city.



"Older?" When a city is incorporated has nothing to do with anything.
Which southern cities are "just as dense or denser, and also have large warehouse districts?"


Which midwest city does Nashville remind people here of?
My insecurities about Nashville? LOL! How strange.

I didn't say anything about when a city is incorporated...I guess that's some kind of insecurity you have. You apparently don't know much about southern cities if you aren't aware of the large warehouse districts in even smaller industrial cities like Birmingham, Columbia, Richmond, or Chattanooga - not to mention the larger cities that have been distribution centers for more than a century like New Orleans, Memphis, Atlanta, Houston, etc. As far as density goes, there are several densely built and populated cities across the South. I don't know what you're so bent out of shape about, but I just thought it should be clarified that your generalizations about what constitutes Midwestern and southern cities don't hold up under further review. Not all, or even most, cities in a region are built the same way.

Nashville doesn't remind me of any Midwestern city because they are all different and unique in their own ways. It obviously has similarities to other American cities, but it reminds me of the old, southern city that it is. You act as if Midwestern and southern cities are on different planets when they actually have more similarities than differences.

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Old September 25th, 2016, 02:50 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by WeimieLvr View Post
I didn't say anything about when a city is incorporated...I guess that's some kind of insecurity you have.
That wasn't directed at you, if you were paying attention to the thread you would have seen that skanky said nashville was "older." Try to keep up.

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Originally Posted by WeimieLvr View Post
Nashville doesn't remind me of any Midwestern city because blah blah blah blah...
You made a dumb statement then couldn't give one example of what you claimed.

Group questions

Which southern cities are built "just as dense or denser, and also have large historic warehouse districts?"


Which midwest city does Nashville remind people here of?

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Old September 27th, 2016, 06:40 AM   #28
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That wasn't directed at you, if you were paying attention to the thread you would have seen that skanky said nashville was "older." Try to keep up.
Well, I said that because Nashville actually is older than most Midwestern cities, and I said that in response to you making the incredibly vague claim that 'midwestern cities have more history.' So what's your point? And why did you ignore the rest of my post? Come on buddy, try to keep up...

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Old September 29th, 2016, 01:35 AM   #29
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Well, I said that because Nashville actually is older than most Midwestern cities, and I said that in response to you making the incredibly vague claim that 'midwestern cities have more history.' So what's your point? blah, blah, blah..
Like I said, when a city is incorporated may have nothing to do with the overall history and culture. In Nashville's case that is certainly true. The opposite of that would be New Orleans. Same with Louisville and Birmingham to a lesser extent. So when a city is founded by itself does not make a city any more historical or culturally significant.

The real point is that midwestern cities were major league cities earlier than places like Nashville, Charlotte and other cities in the south that didn't develop the same way. If you understood how cities developed you would understand that. Midwestern cities developed with more urbanization, denser built environments and were more industrial than southern cities. That's why I'm asking why some people think that Nashville looks midwestern because I don't see a single similarity other than the river.
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Old September 29th, 2016, 07:36 PM   #30
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Double post

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Old September 29th, 2016, 07:42 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by KC2SD View Post
Like I said, when a city is incorporated may have nothing to do with the overall history and culture. In Nashville's case that is certainly true. The opposite of that would be New Orleans. Same with Louisville and Birmingham to a lesser extent. So when a city is founded by itself does not make a city any more historical or culturally significant.

The real point is that midwestern cities were major league cities earlier than places like Nashville, Charlotte and other cities in the south that didn't develop the same way. If you understood how cities developed you would understand that. Midwestern cities developed with more urbanization, denser built environments and were more industrial than southern cities. That's why I'm asking why some people think that Nashville looks midwestern because I don't see a single similarity other than the river.

It goes without saying that it isn't automatic that an older city will have a richer history than a younger city. However, it's simply logical to assume that as time passes there is an ever increasing chance that notable historical events will accumulate to build the unique local history that helps to make a place what it is.

Now, please note that I was merely responding to your vague assertion that 'Midwest cities have more history,' and not making the opposite claim that Nashville is more historic than all Midwestern cities simply because it's older. I will say, however, that I think Nashville puts forth a pretty strong historical claim given that it is 200+ years old, has been occupied by an invading army and was the location of a battle in war, is the home of three former US presidents, and is a true national hotbed in terms of cultural expression, not to mention all of the other random events that have taken place there.

All that being said, I think that your attempt to form a correlation between urbanity and history is misguided to begin with. I'm not even sure why history ever entered into the discussion at all. We're talking about the history of urban development, which believe me, I know plenty about. Actually, if you had bothered to read my previous post beyond just the part where I stated the date of Nashville's establishment, you'd see that I was more or less saying exactly the same thing you are here, just coming to a different conclusion. You're correct in your claim that Midwestern cities are historically more industrial, but my point is that the cities like Nashville and all over the south had a mass of industrial warehouses in the past too. The only reason they look like they do now, however, is not because they are in the south, but because they saw the majority of their growth in a time period in which urban renewal was, unfortunately, the growth trend of the day, which decimated their historic districts. This is why, as you rightly observed, cities like Louisville and Memphis and Richmond that saw much of their growth in the pre-urban renewal days more closely resemble Midwestern cities even though they are in the geographic south as well.
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Old September 29th, 2016, 08:20 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Skanky the Boricuo View Post
It goes without saying that it isn't automatic that an older city will have a richer history than a younger city. However, it's simply logical to assume that as time passes there is an ever increasing chance that notable historical events will accumulate to build the unique local history that helps to make a place what it is.
Then why did you claim that "Nashville is older" while failing to give any reasonable ideas why that matters?
Please stop responding, you don't make any sense. Your posts aren't logical.

I tried to find vintage, historical aerial photos of Nashville and found very little. What I did find was a small city with a small, ugly built environment. Nashville is not built or look anything at all like a midwest city. I saw one aerial photo from the early 60s that literally showed 66%+ of even small downtown Nashville was grass and surface parking lots.

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Old September 30th, 2016, 12:20 AM   #33
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So, how about we get back on the actual topic at hand instead of back and forth banter?
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Old September 30th, 2016, 01:16 AM   #34
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Then why did you claim that "Nashville is older" while failing to give any reasonable ideas why that matters? Please stop responding, you don't make any sense. Your posts aren't logical.
Okay, you sassy bird you, I don't know why there are so many ants in your knickers, because I'm just trying to have a conversation here. But either way, I'll throw you a bone and address your dramatics.

First of all, Nashville is, actually, in reality, an older place than pretty much any city in the Midwest. It isn't some silly random claim. And I stated that fact in response to your completely vague, misguided, and uninformed statement that "Midwest cities have more history" (all midwest cities? they have more history than what, Nashville? all southern cities? who knows.) If I knew what that statement was supposed to mean, I could address it better. Certainly some Midwestern cities have more history, but... yeah, confusing.

Secondly, the reason I stated that fact is because, as I JUST SAID, it's obviously not automatic that an older city has more history than a younger city, or a rich history period, but for plain and simple reasons that really should not need explaining, a place being older makes it more likely that it has a significant history, and in Nashville's case, as I detailed and you again ignored, I think that it does. But again, that's an entirely separate issue from urbanity and I'm not sure why you even brought history into this in the first place.

Thirdly, I suspect there's a reason that after completely ignoring 95% of the content I've posted in this thread only to focus on a one or two rather negligible details, you're now throwing a hissy fit and telling me to shut up. It's likely because you have absolutely zero rational counter argument, but you can't actually just come out and say you were wrong, because for some reason, apparently, this is a competition to you, I guess? You pretend that I make no sense, but I think you're really just mad that I'm making sense, and you can't handle it, so you need an excuse to justify your lack of a response. I mean how much more do I need to hold your hand and walk you through this? You seem like a smart enough person. I know you understand what I'm saying.

Quote:
I tried to find aerial photos of Nashville and found very little. What I did find was a small city with a small, ugly built environment. Nashville is not built or look anything at all like a midwest city. I saw one aerial photo from the 60s that literally showed 66%+ of even small downtown Nashville was grass and surface parking lots.
Clearly, you're now taking childish little pot shots at my city in an attempt to get under my skin, which again proves my theory that you're just angry at me for making arguments you can't counter. Regardless of the reason though, I regret to inform you that whatever sense you had that made you think that I might care, even in the slightest, whether or not you think my city is attractive, is a woefully inaccurate and untrustworthy sense, and I recommend you not using it for decision making in the future. Because buddy, I truly could care less. Please, by all means, feel free to hate it. It's all the same to me.

However, in the highly unlikely chance you are actually interested in learning something about my little burg and not just throwing a temper tantrum and slinging dung around like a baby gorilla, I'll give you my brief input on this supposed photograph "from the 60s" you claim to have seen. You and I both know it wasn't 66% vacant land. Luckily, it never got to that extreme a point. So I'll just give you the ole wink and nod on that one. Nashville was though, as I stated in that post you pretended made no sense so you'd have an excuse to not have to respond to it, the unfortunate victim of a great deal of urban renewal in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, and it did, I absolutely agree, make the city decidedly uglier. Hindsight...as they say. But PRIOR TO THAT urban renewal period, Nashville was more or less indistinguishable from a Midwest city of a similar size and stature, at least from the air, and this was my point THE ENTIRE. FREAKING. TIME. *deeeeeeep breath.* Oh, and by the way, just between you and me, here's a hot tip for you. That grass you stuck your nose up at is probably what we call a park, sweetheart. I know it's hard. I know. I'll help you through it, don't you worry.

I've included a photo below to help illustrate my point, again, just in the off chance you're actually interested in learning something and I simply misjudged your intentions (although I hate to say i, I fully expect you to just ignore this entire post too, and run far, far away from this conversation.)

Below is a photo of Late 1930's Nashville pre urban renewal. Again, I'm not making the argument that it was a metropolis, or that it was beautiful, or whatever. You're free to make up your own mind on those fronts. But there's nothing about it that distinguishes it significantly from a midwestern city of around the same size. To show that, I included a photo of Grand Rapids, which was almost exactly the same size as Nashville at that time (about 170K) and from the same time period (1940ish).

Nashville


Grand Rapids
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Old September 30th, 2016, 03:28 AM   #35
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Your post is full of senseless insults directed to ward off real discussion. The photos you posted proved my point exactly.

So yeah, in trying to learn more about Nashville's built environment from a historical perspective, that Nashville photo was one that I saw. In that photo it looks much smaller and much less dense than even a small city like Grand Rapids MI, even though they have the same population - anyone can see that Grand Rapids appears twice as large and twice as dense. The photo proves my original idea - Nashville is nothing at all like midwest cities. And when I say "midwest cities" I mean real cities like St Louis, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Kansas City, Minneapolis, etc. These cities were huge industrial, manufacturing and transportation centers that have much more built density and more historical structures still standing. And what little Nashville, Charlotte and other small southern cities had was destroyed to the point that almost nothing at all is left. Here's an example; the first photo is of Kansas City c 1930s, same as your Nashville aerial. The 2nd and 3rd photos are from 1962.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/807118199331595/

KANSAS CITY (1930s)


KANSAS CITY (1962)


KANSAS CITY

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Old September 30th, 2016, 03:53 AM   #36
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Memphis, Louisville and perhaps Birmingham...these cities have the built environment and old school industrial density that midwest cities have - to a smaller degree.

Nashville - no, not at all.
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Old December 5th, 2016, 11:03 AM   #37
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Amazing pics.....It looks magnificent. Love Nashville
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Old December 14th, 2016, 07:47 PM   #38
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Quote:
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Memphis, Louisville and perhaps Birmingham...these cities have the built environment and old school industrial density that midwest cities have - to a smaller degree.

Nashville - no, not at all.
And? Everyone knows that. What cities like Nashville and Charlotte like in historical architecture, they surpass those cities in new architecture. If you like old skylines that rarely change, then the Midwest is for you. The southern cities are where it's at now. To each their own.
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Old December 15th, 2016, 01:53 AM   #39
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Memphis, Louisville and perhaps Birmingham...these cities have the built environment and old school industrial density that midwest cities have - to a smaller degree.

Nashville - no, not at all.
Oh please post more unwanted photos of Kansas City in a thread clearly titled "Nashville"!!! People like you give your city a bad name...stop posting photos of it in the wrong threads.

Nobody here cares about KCMO right now and it's not the place for your ego. SOME Midwestern cities have great historic fabric while others don't - it's the same as any region. There is no need to act like there is a standard Midwestern template or one for any region. Every region has a wide variety of cities - both new and old. Get over it.
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Old December 15th, 2016, 01:56 AM   #40
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That wasn't directed at you, if you were paying attention to the thread you would have seen that skanky said nashville was "older." Try to keep up.



You made a dumb statement then couldn't give one example of what you claimed.

Group questions

Which southern cities are built "just as dense or denser, and also have large historic warehouse districts?"


Which midwest city does Nashville remind people here of?
There are several densely built southern cities like what you describe above...you've already named a few and there are lots of others, so there is no need for me to name any of them. Why are you so rude? I guess you don't like to be proven wrong - but get used to it because it sounds like you will find it happening often in life with that attitude. Bye.
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