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Old August 16th, 2005, 10:03 PM   #61
LSyd
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^ Charlotte is utopia; don't question it.

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Old August 16th, 2005, 10:26 PM   #62
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Vulcan, there's really no need to be a smartass. If you can't handle valid rebuttal, don't enter a debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
^Hey, this is great information. I honestly did not know how much Charlotte has evolved. The last time I was in Charlotte was 2003. There was a lot of new urban construction at that time and redevelopment of Charlotte's massive historical district; but apparently there has been a huge bohemian expansion since then.
I'm not sure if you intended to be correct about this, but you're pretty close. The amount of renovation and urban construction in Charlotte is remarkable. Districts like NoDa, SouthEnd, Plaza-Midwood are all making massive strides. Even in well-to-do districts like Dilworth you see a lot more urban-artsy development than before. And yes, all the above are large historic districts. Most cater to the faux-bohemian spirit that currently dominates American liberalism -- the kind that can afford to buy a $5,000 painting to go in their studio loft.

That's not to mention the possible effects of an old industrial complex inside the 277 loop being converted into an entirely new entertainment district.

Quote:
Charlotte’s major downtown universities, UNC Charlotte and Davidson, are helping to fuel the expansion.
Substitute Johnson C. Smith (historically black) and Johnson & Wales, and you're correct.

Quote:
Next time this study is conducted (with more current information); Charlotte will probably have its rightful position at the top of the ranking. If not, that will be the concrete evidence for everyone that this study is bull shit.
Has anyone here yet argued that Charlotte is the most liberal city in the South? No. One would have to be extremely, extremely stupid to think such a thing... especially when we're only a couple of hours away from the REAL most-liberal city, Asheville. Charlotte was only used as a control model against Birmingham to illustrate why B'ham's ranking might plausibly be inflated. For some reason, you felt the need to attack Charlotte itself (and the forumer who made the comparison) rather than respond directly on point.

Is there a particular reason for all the anti-Charlotte venom coming out of central Alabama?
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Old August 16th, 2005, 11:17 PM   #63
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^ There are absolutely no hard feelings. If you want to be truly be diplomatic about the situation, you will see that the comparison between Birmingham and Charlotte was brought up in a derogatory manner. The first statement from the other party was a derogatory statement about Birmingham's demographics and based on those demographics - how could this city possibly be liberal. It went from there. Please realize that there are two sides to this.

Having said that, I'm really impressed with all the projects you have listed in Charlotte (No Joke). I think it's a beautiful city w/ much going on. Charlotte has a bright future.

At the same time Birmingham deserves some respect. It has a lot happening as well. We have an incredible amount of old architecture. The original turn of the century skyline is intact, including the heaviest corner on earth and City Federal Building (27 stories built-in 1913 as the tallest building in the South). All these buildings are being refurbished.

Although, it was stated that I'm completely clueless about my city, I do know that we are:

*Fasting growing auto region in the U.S. (Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai) are located in Cent Alabama

* Second largest biotech center in the Southeast (behind Raleigh) anchored by the UAB medical complex (On Southside)

* South's second largest banking and insurance center (behind Charlotte)

* Home to Saks Fifth Ave and many other Fortune 500 Corporations

* Among the top ten largest technology centers in the south.

* The South's largest magazine publishing center: Southern Living, Cooking Light, Southern Accents, Coastal Living, Mental Floss among many other magazines published in Birmingham

We are not a bunch of uneducated AA and Rednecks. If someone is diplomatic and fair, it influences me to do the same. There is no problem here.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 12:13 AM   #64
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I don't really think of liberalism when I think of Bham, opens my eyes I guess.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 01:24 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
^ It's a little hard to read, however the Southside of Birmingham voted for Amendment One.
Sorry sir, but you don't get off that easily. And remember, your comment was...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
"Most precincts in Birmingham city passed Amendment One".
http://www.al.com/specialreport/?taxplan/jefferson.html

Central & Northeast Birmingham
11,702-Yes 15,152-No

Bessemer & Southwest Jefferson County
4,422-Yes 12,664-No

East Jeffco & East over the Mountain
7,156-Yes 21,250-No

Birmingham & North Suburbs
12,183-Yes 33,318-No

Northwest Jefferson County
2,883-Yes 11,127-No

Over the Mountain Central
21,238-Yes 28,078-No

Southwest Birmingham & Suburbs
3,636-Yes 5,466-No

I like the precincts you selected thought. I see you've got a few "over the mountain" ones in there for the Southside.

And to clarify, this whole "thing" started when I made a simple comment about
Birmingham being so liberal (i.e. Democratic) because of the tremendous amount of "white flight" the city has had to deal with. And I simply stated that, for comparisons' sake, Charlotte and Mecklenburg County have not had as much white flight, is actually a majority white city and county, yet the city and county's two primary governing bodies remain majority Democratic. Despite these being "facts" and not my opinion, I was ridiculed and called a "racists" for saying them.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 02:10 AM   #66
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yep you are correct Sir. I suppose that study has some major flaws. I extend the most sincere apology I can possibly express.
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Old August 17th, 2005, 04:56 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
^ There are absolutely no hard feelings.
None at all.

Quote:
At the same time Birmingham deserves some respect.
Hopefully there'll be no argument about that one
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Old August 17th, 2005, 04:57 AM   #68
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Mocha! LOL
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Old August 17th, 2005, 05:38 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justadude
None at all.



Hopefully there'll be no argument about that one
Hope not

Last edited by Vulcan; August 17th, 2005 at 05:46 AM.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 07:01 AM   #70
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In this study, I wouldn't define liberal as progressive, like many people would. I think they are looking at pure voting records, in which case, NY does indeed have a Republican mayor, but I think we all know which city is more "progressively liberal". Republicans in New York would be Democrats in Bham... not really, but you get my point.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 08:25 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHigh529
In this study, I wouldn't define liberal as progressive, like many people would. I think they are looking at pure voting records, in which case, NY does indeed have a Republican mayor, but I think we all know which city is more "progressively liberal". Republicans in New York would be Democrats in Bham... not really, but you get my point.
I agree. As I have stated in this thread. Birmingham is a deep south southern city with a mostly Black democratic population, hence in this study the conclusion is made that Black democrats are liberal (which is not necessarily true). Birmingham Native Condelleeza Rice is proof that many Blacks are choosing the Republican party. And many Blacks Democrats do not agree with many of the issues important to liberalism.

The mostly White area of Birmingham is Southside. The whites in the Southside of Birmingham tend to be more liberal than the typical southern white (both in voting and idealogy). Since the study focuses on the 'city proper" and not the county suburban areas, the conclusion was made from this study that Birmingham, because of its majority black democratic population in addition to a white democratic inner-city enclave is a liberal city.

I learn much from posting this thread. Do not assume Blacks are liberal just because they are Democrat. Southern Democratic whites, on the other hand, are typically moire liberal than their southern Republican counterparts.

So be it, that is the logic behind this study (from my perspective).

Last edited by Vulcan; August 20th, 2005 at 05:49 AM.
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Old August 18th, 2005, 10:03 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
Do not assume Blacks are liberal just because they are Democrat.
And that, I believe, is the moral of the story.
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Old August 20th, 2005, 02:15 AM   #73
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I just discovered this in the Birmingham News:
A least it gives some insight from the source that created the list.

Birmingham lands on most liberal cities list
Thursday, August 18, 2005


Birmingham is the 19th most liberal city in America and the most liberal in the Southeast, according to a study released Wednesday.

The study, conducted by the nonpartisan Bay Area Center for Voting Research, examined voting patterns of 237 American cities with populations of 100,000 and more and ranked them on liberal and conservative scales. They used results from the 2004 presidential election.

"We did it along the basic national state of mind of what's considered liberal and conservative," said Lindsay Hogan, a researcher with BACVR.

Among other Alabama cities included in the study, Huntsville ranked 138, Montgomery ranked 154 and Mobile ranked 167.

Detroit topped the list as the most liberal city in America, followed by Gary, Ind., Berkeley, Calif., Washington, D.C., and Oakland, Calif.

Provo, Utah, was ranked as America's most conservative city, followed by Lubbock and Abilene, Texas, Hialeah, Fla., and Plano, Texas.

The cities atop the two lists epitomize the nation's "political, economic and racial polarization," Jason Alderman, a center director, said in a release announcing the poll's results.

The center is based in San Francisco.
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Old August 21st, 2005, 09:45 AM   #74
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Just for comparison, Epodunk.com ranked the nation's most liberal cities in November 2004, and their list looks quite different than the one under discussion here. Check out the article here, which also includes the criteria used.
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Old August 21st, 2005, 06:23 PM   #75
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^ You liberals just can't resist bandying about the term 'emprire', can you ?
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Old August 21st, 2005, 06:27 PM   #76
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Austin's liberalism may be a tad overblown. Sure, more liberal than Texas as a whole.
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Old August 21st, 2005, 07:13 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
Austin's liberalism may be a tad overblown. Sure, more liberal than Texas as a whole.
I suspect you are right. But, as is the case with many cities that are considered liberal, you have to take into account the surrounding area.
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Old August 22nd, 2005, 12:15 AM   #78
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Well, Travis county (Austin is the county seat) votes Democratic in almost every election, as well. The reason the city of Austin may not vote as overwhelmingly Democratic as some may expect, is because like many cities, we have annexed every year for decades. There are parts in the city of Austin now within Williamson county; which is a very conservative county. So, these outlying areas now in the city limits skews how "old Austin" still is extremely liberal.

This can show up in not just presidential elections, but everything from our congressman Lloyd Dogget (although the right-wing TX legislature tried to gerrymander Austin out of a congressman), to our mayor and council members.

There is also an important fact of voting Democratic, does not mean you are particularly liberal. Many people support Democrats for a variety of reasons such as being more supportive of welfare, being more open to immigration, and not being so tough on crime; but are not very keen on gay marriage or abortion.

I suppose in order to understand how liberal Austin is, you'd have to actually just experience it. It's about the percentage of vegetarians or those who eat organic foods. It's about the percentage of homosexuals, and how there isn't a need to hide it.It's having trans-gendered people run for city council, and actually receiving over 10% of the vote.Itshaving extremely strong enviromental ordinances. Building an extraordinarily nice homeless shelter, where as most cities do just about everything they can to get rid of them. It's having Eeyore's Birthday (I can't even begin to explain). There are countless more reasons, but they're things you'd just have to see in action to understand.

There are many people I know who have moved here from the Bay Area, and said in many it reminds them of back home. I am not saying it is that liberal, but I know it is the most liberal in Texas by far, and is amongst the most liberal in the country.
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Old August 22nd, 2005, 01:27 AM   #79
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I thought it was interesting that Travis County went big for Bush in 2000. Also, an episode of City Confidential which profiled the Madeliene Murray O'Hair murder case, interviewed a number of austinites who were bemoaning, at that time, how the city had become more consevative over time.
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Old August 22nd, 2005, 01:36 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
I thought it was interesting that Travis County went big for Bush in 2000. Also, an episode of City Confidential which profiled the Madeliene Murray O'Hair murder case, interviewed a number of austinites who were bemoaning, at that time, how the city had become more consevative over time.
Where are your numbers about Travis County? I realize in 2000 it did go for Bush, but I highly doubt it was by a "big" margin. Also, I only mentioned Travis County to show it's not like only the city of Austin is liberal, and outside it immediately becomes very conservative; it does mostly vote Democratic, as 2004 and many other elections show.

And some television show I've never heard of is your basis for saying Austin isn't very liberal? Okay; but I live here and will tell you even if it's not as liberal as it once was, it is still extremely liberal.
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