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Old August 27th, 2005, 05:12 AM   #101
TexasBoi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
To repeat, mine was the modest claim that Austin is not quite as liberal as its reputation on this forum (and among liberals).
2000 was not a typical election result for Austin and Travis County. They are usually democratic and pretty much liberal. Also Austin is more liberal than it is conservative.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 05:15 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by TexasBoi
2000 was not a typical election result for Austin and Travis County. They are usually democratic and pretty much liberal. Also Austin is more liberal than it is conservative.
I agree with this much. I'd switch Austin and Dallas in this particular study.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 05:20 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by BhamDKH
dano, you forgot to list when we have to drive to the B'ham airport to get in our private jets when we travel anywhere! Just kidding (mostly). I agree with you and Fear of Heights that there is a rift between us Brookies and the city of B'ham and that Birmingham would see a lot of progress if the city leadership would stop being inept and get the Mtn. Brook power base on board with it, but I disagree with how you've insinuated (sp?) that we don't like downtown except for work, football, or festivals. 4 years ago, OK, but not as much now. While the old farts will never change, most of my friends (I'm a young guy) here and I like to go downtown to the great new restaurants, galleries, etc. that have opened in the last few years. AND we like Lakeview on the weekends (except for Club Chaos and the crowd it attracts). Until the past few years 5 points was cool but there's too much trash there now (sleazy people at the clubs, muggings in the alleys for which 5 Points businesses have asked the police to try and crack down on). And now the loft district has some neat bars like the U that my friends and I like. Point is, B'ham has its attractions year-round for the younger, upwardly-mobile Mountain Brook crowd.

Also, I hope people won't get the impression that all of us Brookies are elitist jerks. Sure I know people here who are, but there are also many nice, grounded people who despite their success remain decent and humble. I hope B'ham and Mtn. Brook can start cooperating some time soon and get Birmingham where it needs to be.
man, i hate to remind you, being from the brook and all, but you're scaredy white-bread suburbanite.

trash in five points? yeah, but there's plenty in fakeview, err, lakeview, as well. they just spend more of their crack money on their wardrobe.

muggings in five points? i live near the hood. i've never had a problem with crime. but i've had *******s try and pick fights with me when i've been in fakeview. because i'm not an elitist snob. i feel more comfortable as a white man in ensley than i do in fakeview (except for on tap or the liquor store.)

**** the brook and its over priced prices. but i'm all up for some drinking and reconciling.

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Old August 27th, 2005, 05:25 AM   #104
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Yeah, I said I was through arguing with you about a week ago. Little did I know I would continue to see you post about a subject in which you're confused.

It's funny you bring up minor points I made in regards to things that don't show in any numbers, things you'd just have to see to understand. I guess you can't understand anyway.

As far as the comments about me being anxious, you seem to have forgotten what I said about Austin being too liberal for my tastes at times.

You have consistently refused to be direct; just as you now refuse to answer up to your claims about Bush winning Travis decisively.

Lastly, I say you're obsessed because this thread isn't about Austin. I did not bring up Austin, and had quit posting in this thread. You for some reason have this need to continue posting about my city. Why?
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Old August 27th, 2005, 05:27 AM   #105
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i have got to say i disagree with dano. while he's right, mostly, at least about the older generation, he's too far removed and probably sunburned to know what's going on.

i know plenty of conservatives who are in the suburbs (young ones, my fellow law students) who want space in city federal so they can walk to work, and to five points/lakeview. put a few bars downtown to vary it away from the yuppie end of things, and they won't have to leave it.

they were awed when i told them about going into the cabana.

downtown rennaissance is only a matter of how successful, not whether it happens.

although a great disparity remains on over the mountain vs. city residents, although over the mountainers seem to enjoy coming in for work still, especially security guards.

just a summary of what i've seen in the past 6 months.

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p.s. i live on the intersection of highland park/5 points/redmont park. i'm not sure which one i fall into. when i lived a block north, i was in redmont park. now, i don't know, but it doesn't matter.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 05:36 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic
Yeah, I said I was through arguing with you about a week ago. Little did I know I would continue to see you post about a subject in which you're confused.

It's funny you bring up minor points I made in regards to things that don't show in any numbers, things you'd just have to see to understand. I guess you can't understand anyway.

As far as the comments about me being anxious, you seem to have forgotten what I said about Austin being too liberal for my tastes at times.

You have consistently refused to be direct; just as you now refuse to answer up to your claims about Bush winning Travis decisively.

Lastly, I say you're obsessed because this thread isn't about Austin. I did not bring up Austin, and had quit posting in this thread. You for some reason have this need to continue posting about my city. Why?
nic -

Between the two of us, I'm the one who had the numbers. First, the study, the subject of this thread, which had Austin just the 93rd most liberal city in the nation. Second, the 2000 election. Now, 46-41 is decisive to me. But I won't argue with you if you disagree. Your counter-argument amounted to justification-by-mere-assertion.

Again, I'll meet you halfway. I acknowledge that Austin (city proper) leans liberal, although a recent the Austin-Statesman recently described the city council as 'moderate and business-friendly'. But I'd switch Austin and Dallas in the rankings. Certainly Austin is a top 50 liberal city, for better or for worse.

And try not to worry so much about me.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 05:43 AM   #107
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aside from that, i can't believe that the "Birmingham," or "over the mountain" people have commented here but not on some photo threads here. bleh.

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Old August 27th, 2005, 05:59 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
I agree with this much. I'd switch Austin and Dallas in this particular study.
That said. If you was to flip these two cities. I don't believe Dallas would be 93. I think it would be higher. In fact, I honestly believe Austin should be higher than 32 and Dallas is right where its at if you was to somehow switch it. If you again look at the past election results like this study states. Kerry carried the city decisively but Bush carried the Suburbs decisively. Thus why the vote was 50% to Bush and 49% to Kerry in Dallas County.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 06:03 AM   #109
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Core of Birmingham urbanized area: Many of these communities share many of the same ideologies, some are more diverse than others:

Mt. Brook
Homewood
Birmingham: Southside, Highland Park, Redmont, Forest Park, Crestwood, Lakeview, Downtown Birmingham, Avondale, Woodlawn, College Hills, Bush Blvd, Ensley Highlands

Not everyone in Mt. Brook and Homewood / over the mountain are conservatives, if you consider ideology and philosophy.

Last edited by Vulcan; August 27th, 2005 at 06:10 AM.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 06:07 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
Core of Birmingham urbanized area: Many of these communities share the same demographics, some are more diverse than others:

Mt. Brook
Homewood
Birmingham: Southside, Highland Park, Redmont, Forest Park, Crestwood, Lakeview, Downtown Birmingham, Avondale, Woodlawn, College Hills, Bush Blvd, Ensley Highlands
i wouldn't group Mountain Brook withe rest. Redmont, Homewood...sort of. but Forest, Crestwood, "Downtown" (it's several smaller ones,) Woodlawn, College Hills, Bush, Ensley, Highlands...a few more, Norwood among them, yeah, there's a good deal in a loose way sharing the same demographics, although some are more centric than others.

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Old August 27th, 2005, 06:12 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSyd
i wouldn't group Mountain Brook withe rest. Redmont, Homewood...sort of. but Forest, Crestwood, "Downtown" (it's several smaller ones,) Woodlawn, College Hills, Bush, Ensley, Highlands...a few more, Norwood among them, yeah, there's a good deal in a loose way sharing the same demographics, although some are more centric than others.

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I was editing when you posted.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 06:15 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
nic -

Between the two of us, I'm the one who had the numbers. First, the study, the subject of this thread, which had Austin just the 93rd most liberal city in the nation. Second, the 2000 election. Now, 46-41 is decisive to me. But I won't argue with you if you disagree. Your counter-argument amounted to justification-by-mere-assertion.

Again, I'll meet you halfway. I acknowledge that Austin (city proper) leans liberal, although a recent the Austin-Statesman recently described the city council as 'moderate and business-friendly'. But I'd switch Austin and Dallas in the rankings. Certainly Austin is a top 50 liberal city, for better or for worse.

And try not to worry so much about me.
How can 46%-41% with Nader getting 10% in Travis County in 2000 be a decisive Bush victory?

So, basically your basing your opinion off of a study with questionable results, a single election from nearly five years ago involving the entire county, which for the stated reasons was a fluke, a t.v. show that isn't even about politics, but an aethiest, and some friends for all I know live in the suburbs (even if technically they live in the city limits)?

My opinion is based off of the fact that I have lived in virtually every part of this city for my entire life (that is 26 years), and have witnessed/experienced what I know isn't common in most cities in this country (like I've stated before, I have travelled extensively due to family, work, and vacation), the fact that Austin has a very long history of voting Democratic in every election, our county votes Democratic in every election as well, minus 2000 where again it has been explained why, and intangibles which I've stated before.

Your supposed meeting half way by saying Austin, the sixteenth largest city in the U.S., is only in the top 50 most liberal cities in the U.S. is a joke. I personally would think in cities over 100,000 Austin would be in the top 10 liberal cities, certainly top 20. I realize you think number of vegetarians, homosexuals, a city's enviromental ordinances, etc. are just oh so funny to mention, but that is a good indication of how "liberal", not just Democratic a city really is.

One other note, you could take out many square miles of basically suburban areas, and leave a more compact city of 300,000 (our current city population is approximately 700,000) and have an extremely liberal city. I bring this up, because as it has been stated with places like Atlanta and Birmingham, as well as Orlando, their city limits don't cover near as much area as Austin's. Thus, we have areas that in those cities are suburbs. I mean, even with all that other population, the city still manages to be very Democratic/Liberal, but that is just another thing to wrap your mind around.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 06:19 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasBoi
That said. If you was to flip these two cities. I don't believe Dallas would be 93. I think it would be higher. In fact, I honestly believe Austin should be higher than 32 and Dallas is right where its at if you was to somehow switch it. If you again look at the past election results like this study states. Kerry carried the city decisively but Bush carried the Suburbs decisively. Thus why the vote was 50% to Bush and 49% to Kerry in Dallas County.
I'm just hoping that this group will divulge their methodology. Maybe 'liberal' for them is the percentage of Democrat vote within the city proper ?

And of course I understand very well that the city proper will always be more liberal than the metro. At the same time, we don't generally think of a city in quite those restrictive terms.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 06:21 AM   #114
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It's just a damn liberal invasion
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Old August 27th, 2005, 06:23 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan
It's just a damn liberal invasion
THEY'VE EVERYWHERE!!! OMFG!!! the stench is overwhelming!!!

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Old August 27th, 2005, 06:34 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Nic
How can 46%-41% with Nader getting 10% in Travis County in 2000 be a decisive Bush victory?

So, basically your basing your opinion off of a study with questionable results, a single election from nearly five years ago involving the entire county, which for the stated reasons was a fluke, a t.v. show that isn't even about politics, but an aethiest, and some friends for all I know live in the suburbs (even if technically they live in the city limits)?

My opinion is based off of the fact that I have lived in virtually every part of this city for my entire life (that is 26 years), and have witnessed/experienced what I know isn't common in most cities in this country (like I've stated before, I have travelled extensively due to family, work, and vacation), the fact that Austin has a very long history of voting Democratic in every election, our county votes Democratic in every election as well, minus 2000 where again it has been explained why, and intangibles which I've stated before.

Your supposed meeting half way by saying Austin, the sixteenth largest city in the U.S., is only in the top 50 most liberal cities in the U.S. is a joke. I personally would think in cities over 100,000 Austin would be in the top 10 liberal cities, certainly top 20. I realize you think number of vegetarians, homosexuals, a city's enviromental ordinances, etc. are just oh so funny to mention, but that is a good indication of how "liberal", not just Democratic a city really is.

One other note, you could take out many square miles of basically suburban areas, and leave a more compact city of 300,000 (our current city population is approximately 700,000) and have an extremely liberal city. I bring this up, because as it has been stated with places like Atlanta and Birmingham, as well as Orlando, their city limits don't cover near as much area as Austin's. Thus, we have areas that in those cities are suburbs. I mean, even with all that other population, the city still manages to be very Democratic/Liberal, but that is just another thing to wrap your mind around.
The study, the 2000 election, the Austin-Statesman's assessment of the city council, testimony of Austinite friends. Taken together, forming the impression which leads to the modest suggestion that Austin might not be quite so liberal as we commonly hear. Though I happily grant that it is a liberal city.

But I don't get the impression that you're big on nuance.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 06:35 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by LSyd
THEY'VE EVERYWHERE!!! OMFG!!! the stench is overwhelming!!!

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Actually, being a bit of a conservative, I was thinking of putting a WE ARE EVERYWHERE bumper sticker on my car.

Or do you think that's already taken ?
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Old August 27th, 2005, 06:54 AM   #118
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Why are you downplaying what you have said? In one post Austin's just liberal for Texas, or just like any "university town", or a top 50 liberal city; but then you also have said, it may just be a little less liberal than what people think. Now, you bring up a Statesman article, without a link, as more evidence.

Why do you care? I went back and looked at your first post involving Austin, and no one was even discussing Austin when you posted. There had been 2 or 3 posts about being surprised about Dallas ranking higher than Austin, but it wasn't some discussion involving many people over many posts. I have an idea, visit Austin, and make a opinion then. Or, if you don't want to, talk about your hometown of Orlando. This is getting really old, and if you agree let it go.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 06:59 AM   #119
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Take two of these and call me in the morning.
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Old August 27th, 2005, 07:06 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic
Why are you downplaying what you have said? In one post Austin's just liberal for Texas, or just like any "university town", or a top 50 liberal city; but then you also have said, it may just be a little less liberal than what people think. Now, you bring up a Statesman article, without a link, as more evidence.

Why do you care? I went back and looked at your first post involving Austin, and no one was even discussing Austin when you posted. There had been 2 or 3 posts about being surprised about Dallas ranking higher than Austin, but it wasn't some discussion involving many people over many posts. I have an idea, visit Austin, and make a opinion then. Or, if you don't want to, talk about your hometown of Orlando. This is getting really old, and if you agree let it go.
Yes, it does grow tedious. Perhaps we'll agree somewhere down the road on another issue.
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