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Old May 17th, 2006, 05:16 AM   #101
Lexy
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Just because the towers aren't as tall as Jax's doesn't mean it shouldn't be as "impressive" as Jcksonville's Lakelander. Come on. Both of us know that it's all about what happens at the bottom of the 40+ story towers being proposed in Jacksonville and Nashville. That is where the life is at. LOL!! It the feeling of community and neighborhood that the bottoms generate. As I can tell, none (well almost none of them) of the major towers in Jacksonville have set backs. They are just one big long wall that shoots straight up from the the ground to the last floor. And some addition on the side that is 6-10 stories tall doesn't count. it is a law in Nashville that the tower must have setbacks on all sides if it is over 20 stories high. Ground to tower relation with the skyplane is a HUGE factor in the life of the streets below.



::::::::ISCLAIMER:::::::::
Height should have NOTHING to do with the overall impressivness when viewing these list for either of the cities. That should honestly be the last thing on ones mind. Urbanity iw what it is all about folks. How does this tower(s) contribute to the life of the city and the life of the streets if faces? That is what it is all about.
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Old May 17th, 2006, 05:30 AM   #102
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Don't get to caught up in my statement. I was just commenting on the shear number of proposals in the works. It shouldn't be too shocking considering the rapid growth of all of Florida's metros right now. The exact same thing is taking place in Miami, Orlando, Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, Fort Myers, St. Petersburg and Sarasota. We're definately going to have to get it together transit wise, or else many of our cities are going to be screwed.

I kept the Jax list, only to downtown projects over 10 stories, because it would get out of hand and its hard to keep up with the ones in the 3 to 10 story range going up in and just outside of downtown. I'm also not too concerned about tower setbacks and heights. Imo, downtowns should contain a diverse amount of architecture, so if one developer wants to include setbacks and brick....fine, if he wants to go straight up with glass....that's swell too. There's room for all, as long as they interact well at street level. DC and Charleston are great examples of low rise cities with pedestrian activity that the villes can only dream about.

Imo, the most impressive Jax projects are actually the smaller loft rehabs, and infill housing projects in the urban hoods surrounding downtown. I'm sure the same goes for Nashville and Louisville, which is why I have no desire to rank any of these cities based on skyline.
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Old May 17th, 2006, 06:15 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakelander
Very true. To be honest, the average US citizen probably couldn't easily recognize any big city skyline, outside of NYC and Chicago.

Btw, the Nashville list is pretty impressive. Not as much as Jax, but definately more than I ever expected and the Signature Tower is definately impressive. Big props to Nashville for finding a way to build commuter rail at an affordable price, as well.

What's going on in Louisville? The World Trade center look-a-like is huge and Riverplace park looks promising. Anything else (10 stories and above) coming on line?

see my response below

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Old May 17th, 2006, 06:48 AM   #104
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Museum Plaza-61 story twin towers. www.museumplaza.net

RiverPark Place--several 10-15 story buildings stacked on parking garages to get them out of the river flood plain riverparkplace.net

Arena Hotel-TBA around 15 floors and 500 room luxury hotel louisvillearenaauthority.com

Seminary Woods 14 or more stories if the city allows more (I believe original proposal was 23 floors) seminarywoods.com

Waterfront Park Place--23 stories just completed and finishing up selling waterfrontparkplace.com

Lofts of Broadway-8 story warehouse resuse loftsofbroadway.com

Off Broadway Lofts- 8 story adaptive reuse of old hotel for lofts/art space.


Those are the main taller ones off the top of my head.


Let me also add that Louisville has a similar amout of low rise and condo rehab conversions as Nashville as well as new dorm and student housing additions at places like U of L and Bellarmine (which just announced it will add a Law school among many others and double its enrollment to 8,000 by 2020)....I just dont have time to dig up every development--there are too many. In fact, Louisville development is focusing mainly on these low rise infill and rehabs. Just to give you an idea of some of the larger projects, here are examples currently under construction from several different urban neighborhoods in or near downtown.

Liberty Green Massive 700 unit development Downtown libertygreen.org

Mercantile Lofts...www.mercantilelofts.com Downtown Emain/Market

Clifton Lofts www.cliftonlofts.com Clifton

Reynolds Lofts www.reynoldslofts.com Old Louisville

Inverness Condos http://www.josephandjoseph.net/invernessP.htm Highlands

This is just a small spatter of the large amount of infill occuring in many urban neighborhoods that span a pretty vast territory.
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Old May 17th, 2006, 12:14 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scraperboy
There are also a few other suburban highrises planned and plenty of midrise conversions downtown. I believe two 8-story buildings have just been converted to lofts downtown (Lofts of Broadway and Off Broadway Lofts).

Also, you have the 14 story seminary woods condo building going up in a inner ring suburb near Indian Hills. I believe I heard about another midrise under construction off Cherokee Park in the Highlands but I am unsure of the height. Also I believe there are still plans for a 10 or more story building on the Indiana side of the river next to the existing 11 story Harbours condos.

The big thing in Louisville right now is low rise condo infill and condo converts. Every city neighborhood that is remotely trendy and hip is seeing several large condo rehabs or new low rise construction most notably in the Highlands, Crescent Hill, Clifton, and Old Louisville (under 4 floors).

but what goes on in the suburbs won't effect the skyline
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Old May 17th, 2006, 12:33 PM   #106
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Thanks. This doesn't effect the skyline, but did that specialty grocery market, ever open? If so how is business doing?
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Old May 17th, 2006, 12:35 PM   #107
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i don't know, Google it maybe
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Old May 17th, 2006, 02:04 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisvilleGuy05
ha. please. we all know your hatred for Louisville clouds your judgement.
yep, I hate Louisville. PULEEZE. I could care less. The city is nice, great setting, end-of-story. Nashville has the better skyline IMO. Do I think Louisville has better housing stock? Yes.

Get over your insecurity.
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Old May 17th, 2006, 04:31 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulbrotha
see...you can't please everyone!

i like humana, espcial the base





Yeah, that's true, In Nashville you either love Bellsouth or you hate it. Down here in Atlanta, you either love Peachtree plaza or hate it.

The same will be said of MP...I don't like it but you guys may love it.
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Old July 12th, 2006, 03:24 PM   #110
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Any there any new developments going on in any of the "ville's" lately, that would be a nice addition to the skyline ??
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Old July 12th, 2006, 05:33 PM   #111
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Nashville has had several more proposals lately:

Office Tower for Bass, Berry and Sims - 28 floors - 412 ft. - no rendering yet.

Westin proposal on Lower Broadway - 20 floors???


There's also a W in the early planning stages and a large residential tower rumored for the Gulch. Some have seen the renderings but they haven't been unveiled to the public yet.
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Old July 13th, 2006, 04:58 AM   #112
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Jacksonville
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Old July 13th, 2006, 11:45 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakelander
Thanks. This doesn't effect the skyline, but did that specialty grocery market, ever open? If so how is business doing?

There are now two specialty groceries in downtown Louisville, and it sounds like both are doing great. One is Market on Market and the other is La Bodega at Felice, which just opened.

www.marketonmarket.com is the website for the one, not sure of the other.
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Old March 17th, 2012, 10:06 PM   #114
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Found this thread doing a random Google search about Jacksonville. Its been over 5 years now, what has changed in the cities from a skyline standpoint? How many of these projects have been shelved, or completed?

And can Louisville forumers finally admit that they are glad Museum Plaza wasnt built?
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Old March 18th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #115
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From a skyline perspective the Villes added:

Nashville

Pinnacle - Pickard Chilton designed, 28 floors class A office, 417 ft, 600,000 RSF, LEED Gold certified

Viridian Tower - Novare condo development, 31 floors, 371 ft. Currently selling from $135K-$401K, 305 units

ICON in the Gulch - Bristol Dev, 22 floors, currently selling from $255K-$926K for a PH, 424 units

Encore - Novare condo development, 21 floors, currently selling from $170K-$396K, 335 units, nearly sold out

Adelicia - Corner Realty Dev, by far the nicest that went up, 18 floors, 186 units, currently selling from $299K-$1.975M for the 3,240 sf PH

Rhythm at Music Row - Condos, 14 floors, currently selling from $190K-$419K, 105 units

Terrazzo - Condos, 14 floors, next to ICON in the Gulch, 109 units from $235K-$1.1M


So recap: Nashville added about 600,000 sf office in a 28 floor building and 1,464 units in intown mid-rises/high-rises.


Jacksonville

The Peninsula Condos - 37 floors, 437 ft, 236 units, 17 still unsold, currently selling from $244K-$1.05M for a PH unit. American Land Ventures out of Miami.

The Strand Apartments - 28 floors, 295 units, STU $996 1BR $1315 2BR $1775 3BR $2647, I think they're lower now, same developer as Peninisula

San Marco Place - 21 floors, condos, $150K-$1.375M for PH


So recap: Jacksonville added about 650 units in new highrises in this timeframe.



Overall, as I just did this basic research I came to the easy conclusion that Nashville's condo market is by far the most sophisticated between the two. Pricing is generally higher and the buildings are of a higher quality. More of them went up, as well. The websites for the projects in Jax are shabby at best and there aren't any good general condo or downtown or high-rise specific condo sites. The lead Jax condo site lumps downtown in with the "Northside", which is basically the ghetto.

Nashville's Pinnacle at Symphony Place is also a very formidable class A building that is 100% 21st century, green, ultimate finishes, high rents approaching $30, and top tier tenants. FTR, Nashville's other office buildings are actually crappy compared to Jacksonville's so Nashville definitely needed Pinnacle, but nothing in Jax can compete with Pinnacle.

Finally, Nashville is the largest ville by a substantial margin, then Jacksonville, then right behind that is Louisville, and then Greenville well behind that, and then all the others. Only Nashville and Jacksonville added significantly to their respective skylines from 2006-2010, and only Nashville is still adding to its skyline with a few projects going up, including the huge 800 key 25-floor Omni Nashville MCCC. Hyatt's putting up a 14 floor hotel, the hospitals in the West End are adding wings, etc. A hospital in Jax just finished a 12 story wing, too, though, and another 12 floor office building went up in the last couple years there, as well.


I expect Nashville to remain the skyline leader over the next 10 years, at least. It is a more sophisticated market than the others, and it has some powerful and well-financed local developers, like Giurratana. It has some heavy hitting intown economic drivers, like Vanderbilt. It also has a thriving tourist district, a new convention center, a waterfront, an airport with the most direct flights out of all the villes, and connections to Atlanta, Chicago, and other large cities.

Jacksonville has a lot going for it, but nobody taking advantage of that. Its leadership is among the worst in the country, and there are no big intown developers with legitimate financing. You can forget about outside groups looking to put up highrises. Vacancy for class A office is well above 20% and rents are still down around $20-$23. You can't build a new building with those poor fundamentals. High rise rents for apartments are less than $1.50psf/month, also eliminating that as an option. New condos built in 2006/2007 are still unsold, albeit inventory is now finally low. There aren't any drivers, and too much competition with the suburbs/southside/the beaches.

Louisville is Louisville. I love the place, but it doesn't really change all that much. Greenville is still too small - and it's in SC.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 12:22 AM   #116
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Museum Plaza looks fantastically ugly, and I do feel very deeply sorry for Louisville. I know this is subjective but it is such a loud, obnoxious design with no concern for its surroundings.

Also if we're talking about Greenville suddenly, might as well bring up Asheville too:
image hosted on flickr

Asheville Skyline by David Plunkett, on Flickr

Small city, but good downtown for its size (or for any city in NC, as far as nightlife is concerned).
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Old March 19th, 2012, 02:22 AM   #117
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Museum Plaza looks fantastically ugly, and I do feel very deeply sorry for Louisville. I know this is subjective but it is such a loud, obnoxious design with no concern for its surroundings.
No need to worry, Museum Plaza was cancelled.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 02:19 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CVG View Post
Found this thread doing a random Google search about Jacksonville. Its been over 5 years now, what has changed in the cities from a skyline standpoint? How many of these projects have been shelved, or completed?

And can Louisville forumers finally admit that they are glad Museum Plaza wasnt built?
Man, I forgot all about this thread but I'm glad to see it someone bring it back to life from so long ago.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 02:33 PM   #119
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Jacksonville

The Peninsula Condos - 37 floors, 437 ft, 236 units, 17 still unsold, currently selling from $244K-$1.05M for a PH unit. American Land Ventures out of Miami.

The Strand Apartments - 28 floors, 295 units, STU $996 1BR $1315 2BR $1775 3BR $2647, I think they're lower now, same developer as Peninisula

San Marco Place - 21 floors, condos, $150K-$1.375M for PH


So recap: Jacksonville added about 650 units in new highrises in this timeframe.

Jacksonville has a lot going for it, but nobody taking advantage of that. Its leadership is among the worst in the country, and there are no big intown developers with legitimate financing. You can forget about outside groups looking to put up highrises. Vacancy for class A office is well above 20% and rents are still down around $20-$23. You can't build a new building with those poor fundamentals. High rise rents for apartments are less than $1.50psf/month, also eliminating that as an option. New condos built in 2006/2007 are still unsold, albeit inventory is now finally low. There aren't any drivers, and too much competition with the suburbs/southside/the beaches.

Very true statement about Jax because the condo market here got slammed pretty hard as many of the units are nearly 50% below the highs attained back in 2007. The new mayor of Jax is aggresively intitiating a plan to revitalize the urban core in order to spark more economic and residential development.
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Old March 19th, 2012, 05:59 PM   #120
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My stance remains unchanged: Museum Plaza is sweet. Ah, what might have been.
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