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Old March 22nd, 2008, 09:24 AM   #41
TheCat
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Originally Posted by Jeroen669 View Post
Regular cloverleafs are much cheaper, because you only need to build one wide viaduct. If traffic isn't that high the weaving isn't such a problem. The same goes for traffic safety.
Of course they are cheaper But for motorway to regular street interchanges, partial cloverleafs are safer. The only cost is the necessity of placing 2 traffic lights on the street.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 02:57 PM   #42
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Traffic lights are definitely not safer than a full cloverleaf and it only worsens the free flow of the traffic...
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Old March 24th, 2008, 07:09 AM   #43
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That's not true. The traffic lights are located on the road, not the motorway (which wouldn't be a motorway anyway if it had traffic lights). Weaving is a much more dangerous phenomenon, especially on busy urban motorways. It is impossible to not have traffic lights on the crossroad if it's implemented as a partial cloverleaf interchange (unless you want to build a stack with a street ).
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Old March 24th, 2008, 10:28 PM   #44
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Thanks for the clarification. These certainly improve safety, but there is still weaving going on because traffic exiting and entering shares the same lanes. You cannot fully avoid the problem either way. In this case, of course, it is much safer since you don't disturb the usually much faster-moving through traffic, but even in this case drivers must take extra care when merging/exiting to make sure someone is not moving into the merging lane to exit while he/she is moving out to merge. But I agree that if the budget is limited, these aren't bad for quiet interchanges.


Interesting. In Ontario (the 401, 427, and some parts of the Gardiner/QEW) the collector/distributor lanes are as much high-speed as the through (express) lanes, and in fact it's not rare to see the express jammed and the collectors flowing freely (this can happen due to construction or just everyone blindly merging into the collectors). The only difference is that the express lanes are not bothered by merging/exiting traffic. This also prevents people who use the highway for a short trip from using the express lanes altogether, since they can complete their whole trip on the collectors. Lastly, it is just a way to split a very wide highway (18+ lanes) into multiple carriageways. I believe this is the case on at least some US freeways too, such as the New Jersey Turnpike. In Ontario, however, cloverleafs are not up to 400-series standards, so weaving doesn't occur anywhere, not even on the collector lanes.
No, the two are completely different. A highway with a 'local/express' setup are all high-speed through lanes, they just separate local from through traffic and can go on for many km. Collector/distributor lanes are usually only seen at individual interchanges or at a couple of interchanges that are closely spaced. They allow for all of that weaving and so forth to happen away from the main traffic flow and for that traffic to safely get up to speed before entering the main roadway.

Mike
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Old March 25th, 2008, 03:45 PM   #45
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Weaving is a much more dangerous phenomenon, especially on busy urban motorways.
Maybe in North America, not in Europe. It just takes a bit more attention to the drivers, but it's not extraordinary dangerous. A country like Germany is full with it, also on intercharges between motorways and secundary roads. There are not happening dozens of accidents there...

Of course it may be clear that when there's too much traffic there's a need for other solutions, but for preventing traffic jams, not for safety reasons.
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Old March 26th, 2008, 08:14 AM   #46
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Guys, you went completely off topic with the interchange designs

Some pictures of Ukrainian highways. Taken by someone from a different Ukrainian forum.

E-40 West of Kiev


Near Ustechko


Same road toward Gorodenka




The roads, as you can see, are in a poor condition - a legacy of the Soviet Union's infrastructure. I hope they will renovate at least the major roads leading from Poland to the major Ukrainian cities where the Euro-2012 will be held.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 09:21 PM   #47
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Here is an article about the Kiev Ring Road

=====================================
Government unveils $10 billion Kyiv beltway project

by Anna Poludenko, Kyiv Post Staff Writer
Mar 27 2008, 01:41


Ukrainian government officials revealed on March 20 plans to construct a 213-kilometre beltway to encircle Kyiv and its satellite neighbourhoods to relieve traffic congestion in the city’s central districts and foster economic growth.

The “Velyka Okruzhna,” planned by foreign developers in conjunction with Ukrainian national and oblast government officials, would be the most expensive development project ever pursued in Ukraine, costing an estimated $10 billion. “The highway will change the oblast picture for the better, linking suburban neighbourhoods to the capital, thereby attracting further investment into the whole region,” said Vira Ulianchenko, head of the Kyiv State Oblast Administration. If implemented, the beltway should steer traffic away from the centre, boost real estate values and ignite a development and population boom, changing the character of Ukraine’s capital. Completion of the beltway’s first section is targeted for 2012, in time for the UEFA EURO 2012 football championship, while the entire project is slated to be completed in 2017.

“This is a historic project that will differ from the rest by its building conditions,” said Transport and Communications Minister Yosyp Vinskiy. “We must do everything fast, according to European norms and standards.” Architectural planning and engineering of the new highway will cost $22.8 million and is expected to be done by mid*autumn, Vinskiy said. Construction will start at year’s end. The highway will be built in three stages: the first will be financed by the national budget and government credit, the second and third parts by private*public partnerships and international investment, he said. The four* and six*lane highway will cross eight districts in the Kyiv oblast, and 65 kilometres will be built over existing highway, Vinskiy said.

Plans also include infrastructure development along the highway, including more than 150 commercial buildings and 40 bridges. The highway will cover a total of 2,000 hectares of land, 1,200 of which are under private ownership, Vinskiy said. The government expects to adopt an eminent domain law allowing acquisition of private land needed for the project, said Roman Zhukovych, the head of the Socio*Economic Service at the Presidential Secretariat. According to the proposed law, private property owners of land intended for the beltway project will either get financial compensation or comparable land somewhere else. The highway will link the local rural population to the capital’s social services and economic opportunities, Ulianchenko said. “Many satellite cities will be inside the new highway belt, which will be a positive influence both for those who live there and for those who would like to buy land there,” said Konstantin Stepanov, head of research for the Sokrat investment group. “Kyiv will grow and little*by*little expand its borders. This is why probably in the next 15 years, those cities may become the capital’s districts.”

Land areas next to the future highway route currently range from $7,400 per 100 square meters in the Obukhiv district to $5,900 in the Boryspil district, according to SV Development, a Kyiv real estate firm. “Prices for those land areas will certainly increase,” said Vitaliy Vavryschuk, an analyst at Kyiv*based investment bank Dragon Capital. “Warehouses, hotels, restaurants, and shops will be of great value next to the highway, and of course more people would like to buy land there for building private residences,” Vavryschuk said, adding that it will be hard to estimate land valuation until construction starts.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 09:37 PM   #48
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Interesting. It would be the longest ringroad in Europe. (current is London's M25 and Berlin's A10 at about 190km).

Is this a future peek for new development around Kiev? Right now the city is pretty dense with lots of apartment buildings.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 09:56 PM   #49
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Chris, I don't think that the ring road will cause the city to sprawl. Knowing how it was done in Kiev for decades, I would predict that they will continue building highrise apartment buildings. At the end of the 20th century, typically they built 20-30 commieblocks + polyclinic + schools + kindergartens + shopping centre on a certain land area (not exceeding 80 ha) and called the whole thing "микрорайон" which means micro-district. I left Kiev in 2000, so I don't know how it is done now, but I doubt something has changed. So it is my understanding that the density (# of people/km²) will not change in the near future.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 09:59 PM   #50
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Do you think Kiev will attract a run from the countryside to the city? (like in Spain).
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Old March 27th, 2008, 10:11 PM   #51
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In the ex-USSR, people have always wanted to move from countryside to district centres or even better to capital cities Since the establishment of the Soviet Union, people were always running to cities, and sometimes, the government had to physically obstruct people's movement within the country because of that.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 11:26 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Interesting. It would be the longest ringroad in Europe. (current is London's M25 and Berlin's A10 at about 190km).

Is this a future peek for new development around Kiev? Right now the city is pretty dense with lots of apartment buildings.
how long is MKAD?
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Old March 27th, 2008, 11:40 PM   #53
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105km or something nearby that.

( i assumed you meant the Moskovian MKAD, not the Minsk one ).
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Old March 28th, 2008, 01:16 AM   #54
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47 million $/km! Why so expensive?
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Old March 28th, 2008, 06:55 AM   #55
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47 million $/km! Why so expensive?
Well, some top officials from Ministry of Transportation still haven't gotten their villas on Mediterranean coast Sad but true
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Old March 28th, 2008, 12:59 PM   #56
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47 million $/km! Why so expensive?
I guess because of a major bridge across one of those reservoirs.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 06:05 PM   #57
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This ring road should be a bit closer to Kiev.
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Old March 30th, 2008, 08:44 AM   #58
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OMG those country roads are so imbarassing comparing to the rest of Europe..o well..I guess it was always in us Ukrainians

Here just thought maybe would be cool to post it here..
Ukrainian rapper "LarSon" with his video...

In the video you will see senes of Kyiv - Odesa motorway(if Im not mistaking, or maybe its Boryspil..?) pretty alright looking video.
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Old March 30th, 2008, 12:11 PM   #59
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Hehe, I expected rap in Ukrainian Nice video.
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Old March 31st, 2008, 12:53 PM   #60
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Back to Topic.

A weird car accident spotted by a traffic cam on M03 Highway(Kyiv-Borispol)...Got it from other UA Highways Thread.

uuumm...maybe Drunk/Sleepy?..maybe a flat tire?..maybe a ******* jk...what you guys think?
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Пам'ятайте, достатньо тільки спитати у росіянина, "Чей Крым?" щоб взнати чи має він ненавість до України чи ні.

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; April 4th, 2008 at 10:11 AM.
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