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Old August 14th, 2017, 04:32 AM   #841
Naresh hyd
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Hi sir

Could Translate idho idho en Pallavi ippodhu githamagumo
Sp song into English in details
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Old August 15th, 2017, 12:19 AM   #842
Arasu
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Idho idho en pallavi
Here, here is my refrain (of the song)


eppodhu geetham aagumo?
When will it become a song?


ival undhan saranam endraal
When she becomes the main stanza (of your song)
When she seeks refuge in you

saranam means two things - 1) the main ending stanza of a song, 2)surrender.
Hence, gave two interpretations.

appodhu vedham aagumo?
then will it become the Veda? Veda = bible = quran



Idho idho en pallavi

en vaanam engum pournami
My sky is (always) filled with full moon.

idhu enna maayamo?
What wonder is it?


en kadhala un kadhalal
My lover! Is it because of your love

naan kaanum kolamo?
I witness this wonder?

en vazhkai ennum koappaiyil
In the cup that is my life

idhu enna baanamo?
What drink is it (filled with)?


parugaamale rusiyerudhe
Without having a sip, it tastes great

idhu enna jaalamo?
What magic is that?

pasi enbathe rusi allavaa
Hunger itself is a taste

adhu endru theerumo..
When will it get quenched?


Idho idho en pallavi
eppodhu geetham aagumo
ival undhan saranam endraal
appodhu vedham aagumo.

Idho idho en pallavi

Andha vaanam theerndhu pogalaam
You may reach the end of the sky

nam vazhkai theerumaa?
Will our lives come to an end?

paruvangal niramaralaam
Seasons may change colors

nam paasam maarumaa.
Will our affection change?


oru paadal paada vandhaval
I came to sing a song

un paadal aaginen
I became your song

vidhi maaralaam
fate may change

un paadalil shruthi maara koodumaa?
Could the tune of your song ever change?

nee keerthanai
You are the hymn

naan praarthanai
I am the prayer.

porunthaamal pogumaa.
Could there be a mismatch?

Idho idho en pallavi
eppodhu geetham aagumo
ival undhan saranam endraal
appodhu vedham aagumo.

Idho idho en pallavi


Last edited by Arasu; August 15th, 2017 at 12:27 AM.
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Old August 15th, 2017, 12:25 AM   #843
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vazhkai - life
baanam - drink
paasam - affection
maaru - change
theerndhu - finish (verb)
parugu - sip (verb)
rusi - taste
jaalam - magic
pasi - hunger
paattu = paadal = song
koappai = cup
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Old August 17th, 2017, 04:21 AM   #844
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Yaaro Ivan Yaaro Ivan
Who is he? Who is he?

En Pookalin Vaero Ivan?
Is he the roots of my flowers?

En Pennmayai Vendraan Ivan.. Anbaanavan
He won over my womanhood ... He is love personified.

Yaaro Ivan Yaaro Ivan
En Pookalin Vaero Ivan
En Pennmayai Vendraan Ivan.. Anbaanavan


Un Kaathalil Karaigindravan
He who melts in your love.

Un Paarvayil Uraigindravan
He who freezes in your sight.

Un Paathayil Nizhalagavae Varugindravan
He who follows your path like a shadow.

En Koadayil Mazhaiyaanavan
He who turned into rains in my summer.

En Vaadayil Veyilaanavan
He who turned into sunshine in the northern (cold) wind.

Kanjaadayil En Thaevayai Arivaan Ivan
He can understand my needs from a wink.

Engae Unnai Kootichella
Where to take you

Solvai Enthan Kaathil Mella
(you) will tell in my ears softly.

En Pennmaiyum Ilaipaaravae
For my womanhood to rest

Un Maarbilae Idam Poathumae
a place in your chest is enough.


Ean Indru Idaiveli Kuraigirathae
Why today space (between us) is shrinking?

Methuvaaga Ithayangal Inaigirathae
Gradually (our) hearts are joining together.

Un Kaiviral En Kaiviral Kaetkkindrathae
Your fingers seeking my fingers.

Yaaro Ivan Yaaro Ivan
En Pookalin Vaero Ivan
En Pennmayai Vendraan Ivan.. Anbaanavan

Un Swaasangal Enai theendinaal
Your breath when it touches me

En Naanangal Aen Thoarkutho?
Why my shyness beats a retreat?

Un Vaasanai Varum Vaelayil
When your scent approaches

En Yosanai Aen Maarutho?
Why do my thoughts change?

Nadhiyinil Oru Ilai Vizhugirathae
A leaf falls into the river.

Alaigalil Mithanthu Thavazhgirathae
It floats gently on the waves.

Karaiserumaa Un Kaiserumaa Èthirkaalamae
Will it reach the shores? Will it find your hands? oh, Future!


Ènakaagavae Piranthaan Ivan
He was born only for myself.

ÈnaiKaakavae Varuvaan Ivan
He will come to protect me.

Èn Pennmaiyai Vendraan Ivan.. Anbaanavan
Èn Køadayil Mazhaiyaanavan
Èn Vaadayil Veyilaanavan
Kan Jaadayil Èn Thevayai Arivaan Ivan

Last edited by Arasu; August 18th, 2017 at 06:26 PM.
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Old August 17th, 2017, 04:26 AM   #845
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Yaro ivan?

I have translated this as, "Who is he?"
It is actually more like, "Who could this be?"

Yaar ivan? = Who is he?
Yaaro ivan? = Who could this be?

The difference between the two is - the first one is question posed to someone whereas the second one is asking the question to oneself.

The use of 'o' at the end of a question - is it used in Kannada and Telugu?
I know it is the case in Malayalam.
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Old August 17th, 2017, 04:37 AM   #846
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I must make a mention of the lyricist of the above song - Na. Muthukumar.
A two time national award winner for Best lyrics, his songs are mesmerizing. His untimely death is a great loss for Tamil film industry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na._Muthukumar
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Old August 17th, 2017, 04:43 AM   #847
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Another one of his songs



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Old August 20th, 2017, 12:08 PM   #848
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Handsome MGR, Beautiful Padmini, Pure Tamil

Sung by legends TM Soundararajan, P Suseela for the movie Mannadhi Mannan (1960)




Last edited by Arasu; August 20th, 2017 at 12:14 PM.
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 02:56 PM   #849
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Malayalam and Tamil are pretty to close to each other.
As we know, around 2000 years back, it was only one language spoken in the parts that are known as TN & KL today. When I was in school, sometimes I used to hear Malayalam songs on the radio. I understood them in bits and pieces and wondered why I was not able to understand it completely.

Here is a great Malayalam song.

https://malayalamfilmsongs.wordpress...s-translation/



I got the translation from this site:
https://malayalamfilmsongs.wordpress...s-translation/

Nenjodu cherthu Pattonnu paadaam,
Holding you close to my heart, I will sing a song

Pattinte eenam neeyanu…
The songs tune is you

Kaanathey kannil Ariyathey nenjil
In eyes without seeing In heart without knowing

Viriyunna chithram Neeyaanu..
The picture that blossoms is You

Nee Varoo..
Please Come

Ee Paattin raagamaai
as this song’s raaga*

Nee tharoo.. ee chithram varnmaaai..
Please Give this picture in colors

Hridhayam Thookum paranayam
Nalki njanum nila sandhye..
Gave love which showered from my heart to you moonlit dusk

Thirike nanayum mizhikal
Nalki neeyum engu maanju
In return making my eyes wet, where have you disappeared


Nenjodu cherthu Pattonnu paadaam,
Holding you close to my heart, I will sing a song
Pattinte eenam neeyanu…
The songs tune is you

Kaanathey kannil Ariyathey nenjil
In eyes without seeing In heart without knowing

Viriyunna chithram Neeyaanu..
The picture that blossoms is You

Kaannaanayi Mohangal chirakadikkumbol
When my desires flutters its wings to see you

Snehathine kataayi enne thalodi
You became a wind of love caressing me

Mizhiyile mozhiyilum nin mugham maathramaayi
In the words of eyes , only your face remained

Kanavile kannilum nin niram maathram
In the eyes of dreams, there is only your color

Maayalle akale akale akale..
Don’t disappear away, away, away

Nenjodu cherthu Pattonnu paadaam,
Holding you close to my heart, I will sing a song
Pattinte eenam neeyanu
The songs tune is you

chollanayi kaavyangal ezhuthiyathellam
The poems which were written to recite

nin chundil pokkunna hinddholamaayi
became Hindolam** that blossomed in your lips

Aazhiyum maariyum nin swaram maathrameki
Oceans and rains gave only your voice

Ninavile nizhalilum ninte nishwaasam
In thought’s shadows your breaths

Thedunnu arikil, Nee innu evide
Searching near, where are you now

Nenjodu cherthu, Pattonnu paadaam
Holding you close to my heart, I will sing a song
Pattinte eenam neeyanu
The songs tune is you

Kaanathey kannil oo hoo ho ooo
In eyes without seeing oo hoo ho ooo
Viriyunna chithram oo hoo ooo
In heart without knowing oo hoo ho ooo

Last edited by Arasu; September 23rd, 2017 at 04:24 PM.
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 03:25 PM   #850
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In this song, the words 'aazhi' and 'maari' have been used for ocean and rain respectively.

In Tamil, these words mean the exact same thing but unfortunately, they are not used these days in both spoken and written Tamil.

Kaanaathey - not seen ; ariyaathey - not known

kaanum - seen; ariyum - known

Sometimes, the opposites are formed by adding 'aa' to the end of the verb.
kaanum - kaanaa
ariyum - ariyaa
puriyum - puriyaa (understand - don't understand)


nenju - heart
cherthu - to hold close
nalki - to give (in old Tamil as well). Not used in modern Tamil any more.

chirakadikumbol - chiragu + adi+k+ um+ bol

chiragu - wings
adi - to flutter (wings)
adikkum = fluttering
bol - while

viriyunna - blossoming

Though this word is translated as blossoming, somehow I think the Tamil meaning of this word 'unfurl' is more appropriate here. I believe there might be this other meaning in Malayalam as well.

ezhudhu - write, compose
ezhuthiyadhellam = ezhudiyadhu+ellam = all that has been written

ezhdiyadhu = that which is composed
ellam = all

akal = to disappear (gradually)


nanai - to get wet

mizhigal = vizhigal (Tamil) (eyes)

maanju - disappear

In Malayalm it seems that maanju means disappear. However, in Tamil, the older and original form of maanju, maaindhu means 'to die'.

Also to note, eenam here is translated as tune. I guess eenam means 'shame' in Tamil.
I don't know if it also means tune in Tamil.

Last edited by Arasu; September 23rd, 2017 at 03:35 PM.
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 04:27 PM   #851
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Can anyone explain how tamil verbs are negated, please?

e.g. : I work > I don't work / I worked > I didn't work

in the present, past, future and other sentences, thank you
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 05:14 PM   #852
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Unforunately, negation in Tamil grammar and syntax doesn't appear to be an easy one.

Quote:
Negation in modern Tamil is a problematical area for scholars and grammarians interested in syntax and semantics. While there is a simple negative marker -le that is affixed to infinitives to mark negation, there are many more complex forms in the language that cannot be treated as a variation of this simple form, and even if negation were shown to be a simple morphological process, many semantic complexities and anomalies of the system would be obscured. Most western grammars1 of Tamil have not adequately dealt with Tamil negation. Often the point of departure has been a European, sometimes even a Latin, model against which the Tamil system is contrasted. Since European languages usually form negatives in a fairly straightforward manner by the addition of some negative particle to even otherwise complicated verb phrases, little thought is given to how negation works in Tamil as a system.
Please go through the examples and explanation given here for scholarly analysis.
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/...n/negate1.html

For simple examples and easy understanding:
http://mylanguages.org/tamil_negation.php

Learning the Tamil Negation is very important because its structure is used in every day conversation. The more you master it the more you get closer to mastering the Tamil language. But first we need to know what the role of Negation is in the structure of the grammar in Tamil.

Tamil negation is the process that turns an affirmative statement (I am happy) into its opposite denial (I am not happy). Here are some examples:

English Negation Tamil Negation
Negation(yethirmarai) - எதிர்மறை
he is not here (avan inke illai) - அவன் இங்கே இல்லை
that is not my book (athu yen puththakam illai) - அது என் புத்தகம் இல்லை
do not enter (ulle nuzhaiyaadhe )- உள்ளே நுழையாதே
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 05:18 PM   #853
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For my simple mind, it appears that you can add 'illa' in colloquial or 'illai' in correct form to make a negative when you are referring to a noun.

When you are using negative for a verb, it is adding an 'aa' at the end of the verb.

Please see the examples in the previous post.
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 05:24 PM   #854
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Even the use of 'illa' is not appropriate in all noun related negatives.
There are places where you have to use 'alla'. However, in modern Tamil, the distinction between 'illa' and 'alla' is not maintained.

However, it is followed in Malayalam and probably in Kannada as well. In Telugu, it is differentiated by 'ledhu (illa) and kaadhu (alla)'

Here is someone explaining the use of 'illa' and 'alla' in Malayalam. It holds good for Tamil as well but Tamils have forgotten this usage.

https://www.italki.com/question/230540?hl=en-us
Quote:

I will try to explain the difference between 'illa'(ഇല്ല) and 'alla'(അല്ല) through examples.
Question:"Do you have children?(ningalkku kuttikal undo?)
Answer: "illa"(no, (I don't have any children)
Question:"Is that a bird?"(athoru pakshi ano?)
Answer : "alla, athoru pakshi alla(no, it's not a bird)

Question:" Do you know the answer?(ninakk utharam ariyamo?)
Answer :"illa,enikk utharam ariyalla"

So, generally 'alla' is used to negate something ,or to say something is 'wrong'. In all other cases 'illa' is used.
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 05:43 PM   #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopc View Post
Can anyone explain how tamil verbs are negated, please?

e.g. : I work > I don't work / I worked > I didn't work

in the present, past, future and other sentences, thank you
Negation:
I work

Present:

English: I work/ I don't work.
Tamil: naan vaelai seigiraen.
naan vaelai seyyavillai.

Past:
English: I worked/ I didn't work.
Tamil: naan vaelai seydhaen.
naan vaelai seyyavillai.

Future: naan vaelai seyvaen.
naan vaelai seyya maataen.

Negation is same for the past and present.

Please note work is used as a verb in English whereas in the Tamil translation it is used as a noun (vaelai).
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Old September 24th, 2017, 08:48 PM   #856
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I mentioned about the Malayalam words 'aazhi' meaning ocean and 'maari' meaning rain not being used in Tamil in current times.

Here is an example of 'maari' in the Sangam literature Purananooru.

பாரி பாரி என்றுபல ஏத்தி
Paari Paari endrupala aethi

ஒருவற் புகழ்வர் செந்நாப் புலவர்
oruvar pugazhvar sennap pulavar

பாரி ஒருவனும் அல்லன்
Paari oruvanum allan

மாரியும் உண்டுஈண்டு உலகுபுரப் பதுவே
Maariyum undu eendu ulagu purap padhuve. (புறநானூறு 107, கபிலர்)

Most of us know about Paari, the most famous Tamil king of Sangam times.
He didn't belong to the famous dynasties of Cheras, Cholas and Pandiyas of Three kings that ruled Thamizhagam (present TN and Kerala) but a smaller dynasty ruling a small area. He became so famous among Tamils of those days because of his generosity. He was generous to a fault and he was thought to be foolishly generous. The famous example of his foolish generosity was the episode where he gave up his chariot he was riding to support a wild jasmine creeper that was struggling for a firm support.

Due to his generous nature, he became more famous in the Tamil country that these three kings became jealous and waged war against king Paari and killed him in a battle.
I have quoted the song (attrai thingal) Paari's daughters wrote in his remembrance a couple of times in this thread.

I wanted to talk about 'maari' (rain) but started raving about Paari, the king.
The reason was the song that I have quoted here compares Paari and maari.

The poet Kapilar says that the learned poets only talk in praise of Paari forgeting there is also 'maari' (rain) that is also generous and protects the land. Paari is not the only one.

I have earlier stated that Paari was not only famous during Sangam times, he is still famous. You will find many Tamils to this day with the name Paari in his memory and honor.
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Old September 24th, 2017, 09:07 PM   #857
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Let us look at the famous use of the word 'aazhi' by Kamban in his Kambaramayanam.

Quote:
‘ஆழி சூழ் உலகம் எல்லாம்
பரதனே ஆள, நீ போய்த்
தாழ் இருஞ் சடைகள் தாங்கி,
தாங்க அரும் தவம் மேற்கொண்டு,
பூழி வெங்காளம் நண்ணி,
புண்ணிய நதிகள் ஆடி,
ஏழ் இரண்டு ஆண்டின் வா என்று
இயம்பினான் அரசன் என்றாள்’
The word "aazhi soozh ulagam" ( world covered by ocean) is used by Kaikeyi to inform Rama to take to vanavasam (forest life) for fourteen years (eazh irandu) and leave the world covered by ocean to be ruled by his younger brother 'Bharatha'.
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Old September 25th, 2017, 11:02 PM   #858
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More on King Pari, his daughters and his friend and poet Kapilar

http://www.thehindu.com/society/hist...le19174376.ece

A solitary verse can be traced to Pari’s daughters, Angavai and Sangavai. Did they write more?

There are women poets in the Sangam era, but they are comparatively few in number — approximately thirty women out a total estimated number of 473 poets. Avvaiyar, who I wrote about a few weeks ago, is the most prolific of these poets — but there are a few poems that provide a glimpse into the lives and stories of other women poets.

One of the myths from the Sangam Era that concerns two of these women, is enmeshed with the take of the poet Kapilar, dear friend of Vel Pari. Vel Pari, the ruler of a small kingdom, was besieged by the joint forces of the Cheras, Cholas and Pandyas for years. Ultimately, after years of war and siege, he was defeated. His poet, Kapilar, deeply grieved his patron’s loss, and took on the care of Pari’s two daughters — Angavai and Sangavai.

At this point, the stories concerning Kapilar and these two princesses differ. I have come across some versions where Kapilar seeks a bridegroom for these two princesses. In other stories he leaves them in the care of the poetess Avvaiyar, who then marries them into another Velir king’s family. But the ending is the same — Kapilar, deeply affected by the death of Vel Pari, commits suicide.

Yet I’ve always been intrigued by the stories of these two princesses — Angavai and Sangavai — and wondered what happened to them after their father’s death and after Kapilar’s death. Kapilar’s poems remain with us today, and we know a great deal about him — but what about the perspective, the opinions and the emotions of these two orphaned girls?

Reading George Hart’s translation of Purananuru, I stumbled across a poem credited to these two girls. It comes after a string of poems by Kapilar, that praise Vel Pari, speaking of how hard his kingdom, Parambu, will be to take, that seem to anticipate Pari’s victory.

And it deeply affected — after all those poems that raise hopes of Pari’s success, that speak so elegantly and persuasively of his prowess and strength — to come across a striking, lonely verse, written by these two young women, haunting in its desolation, grief and beauty, that speaks of Pari’s death and defeat:

On that day, under the white light of that moon,

we had our father and no enemies had taken the hill.

On this day, under the white light of this moon, the kings,

royal drums beating out the victory,

have taken the hill. And we! We have no father.
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Old September 25th, 2017, 11:06 PM   #859
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King Pari - story

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C4%93l_P%C4%81ri

Vēl Pāri
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A statue of Paari giving away his chariot to a climber plant
Vēl paari was of a dynasty of Tamil Vēlir kings who ruled Parambu nādu and surrounding regions in ancient Tamilakkam towards the end of the Sangam era. The name is often used to describe the most famous amongst them, who was the patron and friend of poet Kapilar and is extolled for his benevolence, patronage of art and literature. He is remembered as one of the Kadai ēzhu vallal (literally meaning, the last seven great patrons) in Tamil literature.[1]

Contents [hide]
1 Ascension and rule
2 Siege and death
3 Family and succession
4 Legacy
5 Notes
6 References
Ascension and rule[edit]

Piran malai where Kodungundranathar temple stands atop the hill. It was previously given by the name Parambu malai which ruled by Pāri
Pāri is described as the master of the hill country of Parambu nādu and held sway over 300 prosperous villages.[2] Pari patronized various forms of art, literature and bards thronged his court.[3] Parambu nadu consisted of parts of modern-day Tamil Nadu and Kerala stretching from Piranmalai in Sivaganga district, Tamil Nadu to Nedungadi in Palakkad district, Kerala. His favorite was poet Kapilar who was his close friend and lifelong companion.[4] From Purananuru, song 107 by Kapilar:


Again and again they call out his name: "Pāri! Pāri"! Thus do poets with skilled tongues all praise one man.
Yet Pāri is not alone: there is also the rain to nourish this earth.[5]

Pāri was noted in of the last Sangam era for his generosity and was popular as one among the Kadai Ezhu Vallalgal (last seven patrons). Pāri's fame is described in Sangam literature as "முல்லைக்கு தேர் கொடுத்தான் பாரி" (One who gave his chariot to a climber plant). He was so generous that he gave away his chariot to a climber plant when he saw that it was struggling to grow without a suitable support.

Siege and death[edit]
The three crowned Tamil kings Cheras, Cholas and Pandyas expanded their kingdoms ruthlessly and turned their attention towards independent Vēlir Kings thus turning them into subordinates or eliminating them and assimilated their kingdoms. They laid siege to the heavily fortified country of Parambu, but Vēl Pāri refused to give in and the war dragged for years. Kabilar approached the kings and asked them to turn back describing his patron Pari as an unconquerable warrior (excerpt from Purananuru: song 109):


You may think Pāri's mountain is easy to conquer. Even though the three of you with your gigantic royal drums lay siege to it..Like the sky is his mountain. Like the stars in the sky are its springs. Even though your elephants are tied to every tree, your chariots spread through every field, you will not take it by fighting. He will not surrender it by the sword. But here: I know how you can win it. If you play little lutes, their strings of rubbed twine, have your dancing women come behind with thick, fragrant hair, and go to him dancing and singing, he will give you his mountain and his whole land.[6]

After a long war, Vēl Pāri was killed by treachery.[7] Purananuru, song (112) of Pāri's daughters on his death:


That day in that white moonlight, we had our father, and no one could take the hill. This day in this white moonlight, kings with drums beating victory, have taken over our hill, and we have no father.[8]

Family and succession[edit]
Pāri had two daughters, Angavai and Sangavai. Kapilar become their guardian after Pari's death and the three of them left Parambu country. Kapilar unsuccessfully approach different Vēlir kings to find grooms. Kapilar later took his own life by vadakirrutal, one of the Tamil ways of committing suicide.[4] Later, poet Auvaiyar takes care of them and marries them off successfully into the family of another Vēlir king Malaiyamaan Kaari.

Legacy[edit]
Pariyur ("place of Pāri") or Parapuri near Gobichettipalayam in Tamil Nadu is named after Pāri. After Pāri was defeated, the place was deserted towards the end of thirteenth century A.D. and people migrated to settle down in neighboring areas what became the modern day town of Gobichettipalayam. Pariyur has four temples dedicated to various Gods namely, Kondathu Kaliamman Temple, Amarapaneeswarar Temple, Adinarayana Perumal Temple and Angalamman Temple.[9]

Piranmalai, the fortified hill near Tiruppathur ruled by Pāri is situated at an elevation of over 2,000 feet and is the last outcrop of the Eastern Ghats. At the foot hill, there are traces of a moat and a fort, which was pulled down in early 19th century. Kodungundranathar temple stands atop the hill now.[10] Pāri's daughters were married to the son of Kāri at Manam Poondi near Tirukkoyilur.
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Old November 6th, 2017, 12:06 PM   #860
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