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Old September 17th, 2017, 05:30 PM   #1221
Yellow Fever
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I personally don't recommend members posting argumentative comments on sensitive political and religious issues in other countries forums, just imagine people coming to Vancouver's forum and start bashing my city and that'd definitely start a fight with the locals for sure.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 05:41 PM   #1222
Geborgenheit
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YF, the difference that there are threads about countries in the Russian section: thread about Baltics, thread about in Ukraine... In this threads, the respective countries are insulted. Is that acceptable ?
It would be like opening a thread about Toronto in Vancouver's forum and throwing dirt at another city. Then some people from Toronto would go there and would be banned. That's what happening in the Russian forum.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 07:21 PM   #1223
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That's a good example. If there would be a thread about Toronto in Vancouver's forum, would that mean that forumers from Toronto does not have a right to say anything in that thread? But there's even worse as Vancuvers municipality does not have a propaganda machine that would flood with a negative information about Toronto. And not only negative, but very often false information. And if a forumer from Toronto would want to show that this information is in fact a lie - he would be banned. And not only banned from a Vancuvers forum, but also from a SkyscraperCity forum in general with no right to post any construction updates about Toronto. I understand there is a sensitive matters, but that's why there are mods in a forum - to check that discussion would be performed in a civilized manner. But when a mod starts using its power to ban others for replying to his incorrect comment - that's not the way to moderate forum, not even speaking about the insults that followed after.

Last edited by Eidvis; September 17th, 2017 at 07:37 PM.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 11:13 PM   #1224
joshsam
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Then you be stronger men and leave that discussion on the side. Trust me it's not worth the trouble. Let those small minded people posting in their Ukraine and Baltic hate threads alone and move on.

Ignore the obvious troll threads in those places.
You know before you will open what you will find there and that you won't like it. You also know you will get yourself in trouble trying to convince people being in a giant circle jerk for to long and in the end you will draw the shorstest straw so why would you even bother or give them the attention they are asking for? Unless you want to be a part of the circle jerk going there, you better just stay away.

Does that mean that these threads are justified? No they are not. Not in my personal opinion anyway.
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Last edited by joshsam; September 17th, 2017 at 11:18 PM.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 01:31 AM   #1225
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I have to admit I kinda enjoyed pointing to the obvious in these lie and hate based thread, even though what is obvious and rock solid fact is not necessarily accepted there. I also don't think these people are lost forever or incapable of critical thinking. I blame well constructed Kremlin's propaganda and almost no alternative source of information, but even in such conditions there are rational thinking forumers from Russia. I also have to admit it's kinda pity that even here Putin's agenda is well promoted and any tries to provide with a truthful information are being blocked. I hoped that SkyscraperCity forum has some tools in defending freedom of speach, I'm sure there are enough rational Russians that could be good and fair moderators.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 12:14 PM   #1226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidvis View Post
I have to admit I kinda enjoyed pointing to the obvious in these lie and hate based thread, even though what is obvious and rock solid fact is not necessarily accepted there. I also don't think these people are lost forever or incapable of critical thinking. I blame well constructed Kremlin's propaganda and almost no alternative source of information, but even in such conditions there are rational thinking forumers from Russia. I also have to admit it's kinda pity that even here Putin's agenda is well promoted and any tries to provide with a truthful information are being blocked. I hoped that SkyscraperCity forum has some tools in defending freedom of speach, I'm sure there are enough rational Russians that could be good and fair moderators.
I'm afraid the other side accuses us of the same. The truth however might be somewhere in between. Sadly we peasants will never know. We're just canon fodder for their little political chess play.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 11:14 PM   #1227
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Unfortunately but that's just another trick by Putin's propaganda machine, to make others believe that even if in Russia there's a propaganda, so it's nothing wrong as everywhere else it exist. However it's absolutely different matter. If anyone would look to what Putin is saying when he is asked about corruption in Russia, he always stars explaining 'yes, there's a corruption in Russia, but everywhere else in the world there's a corruption, so it's normal that corruption in Russia exist as well'. While in reality level of corruption in Russia can not even be compared with the level of corruption in other European countries, corruption perception index show that it can be compare with African countries, but not European. While there would be a big scandal if it would be publicly known that some European politician received a bribe of 100 euros and most likely he should resign the next day, so in Russia even after facts such as childhood friend of Putin that works as violinist has billions of dollars in offshore accounts doesn't make any scandal. To say that 'truth is somewhere in between' is like saying 'yes, murder is a crime, but almost everyone of us at some point in our lifetime made some criminal activity, some has stolen something, some exceeded speed limit - so we are all criminals and it's normal to be a criminal and a murderer'.

There are many countries that can speak two languages, however Baltic countries are unique as they can speak 3 languages, besides their own they can speak English and Russian. They lived under soviet occupation and now are full members of European Union and democratic world. These countries are the ones that can best understand what is happening in Russia as they can understand their language and at the same time has a possibility to compare with a western world. That's a big threat to Putin's regime and if he has no shame in interfering election process in US, one could only imagine how big his interference in the Baltic states is. Lithuania was the first country in Europe to impeach it's president and this was because of his dirty ties with Russia. Unfortunately interference is almost in every field possible and unfortunately even SkysctaperCity forum is actually helping to fulfill this Putin's agenda. Even though this forum is about constructions and projects, but there's a separate thread about Baltic countries in Russian forum section where everything is performed step by step according to Putin's plan: Baltic states occupation is being denied (even though it's a world's recognized fact), these countries are demonized with a false information provided by a Kremlin's owned media and so on. Of course various cases of propaganda can be found everywhere in the world, but Russian propaganda can not be compared to anything in Europe or even in the world. It is a well constructed machine with a monopoly of the information in Russia. It is a complicated propaganda machine that works according to the plan of Putin. This is in no way can be comparable with a media in the west where no one has a monopoly on information and it can not even be compared with other dictatorship states, where propaganda machine are only working in their own territory. Putin's propaganda machine is working not only in Russia, but also in this forum, and demonization of Baltic countries is a good example of it. Unfortunately, but if Baltic states formers are forbidden to provide their arguments to a falsify information about their countries - that means that SkycraperCity forum works according to Kremlin's rules, where no alternative information is allowed, only the one that is approved by Kremlin.

My opinion is that if such a structure of demonizing other countries in a forum is allowed, so at least people from these countries should have a right to say their opinion. Of course it's a sensitive matter and there's a need of professional mods to monitor such discussions so that discussions would be performed in a civilized manner. But if there's a wish not to have sensitive discussion at all, than such threads should be forbidden in general.
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Old September 19th, 2017, 12:05 AM   #1228
joshsam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidvis View Post
and there's a need of professional mods to monitor such discussions so that discussions would be performed in a civilized manner. But if there's a wish not to have sensitive discussion at all, than such threads should be forbidden in general.
The site owner opts for having those topics rstricted since they are not in any way adding any value to a forum wich has the focus on skyscrapers and city development and they only cause otherwise normal members to start flame wars or suddenly become trolls.

In practise though it's mainly the local mod team wich choses what subjects can and can not be discussed. Since the Russian mod team keeps those topics open, i'm afraid you are just going to have to live with it untill some admin or Jan himself says the fun in those sections is over.

Another section with similar problems is the Indian subforum for example. Their India/Pakistan conflict causes a lot of heated debates and stoops people to new lows.

I think we can close discussion about this now. We are aware that being impartial in a conflict like this is ofthen hard and moderators take decissions wich they deem best for their section. You probably made some people butthurt in the Russian skybar, they complained, and you got warned. You didn't get the warning and continued so they brigged you. The same happens with Russian forumers wich stir up things to much in the non RUssian speaking forums.
I understand it might not seem 'fair' from your personal point of view but sometimes you will have to look at the bigger picture.
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Last edited by joshsam; September 19th, 2017 at 12:15 AM.
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Old September 19th, 2017, 08:03 AM   #1229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshsam View Post
You probably made some people butthurt in the Russian skybar, they complained, and you got warned. You didn't get the warning and continued so they brigged you.
Even though personal attacks and insults are not that rare case in that particular thread and not just that, but also threats to bomb other country with a nuclear bombs or occupy it, but I have never personally attacked anyone there. 'Butthurts' could only been caused by the facts and information given. Why I was brigged I have explained in great detail, that is brigged by a mod for replying to his incorrect post in a same manner and his post was written.

As for India/Pakistan forumers conflict - I wouldn't call it the same case, as neither India nor Pakistani governments owns monopoly on information, one thing is conflicts between forumers, another thing is well managed government's policy to produce negative and fake information about Baltic countries, flood all internet with it, including SkycraperCity forum, while at the same time blocking any other source of information.
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