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Old February 20th, 2010, 02:50 PM   #21
Kavalier
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I was watching TV on vaigunda egadesi, the presenter was talking about the attack on the temple by "vaetrumadhathar" , wiki tells me it is a general of the khilji dynasty. I was wondering about the kingdoms that were present in TN at that time. Any idea as to who was ruling TN and where they so weak militarily that they couldn't stop the attack?

PS: Discussing history shouldn't be misunderstood as targeting any community of this day. As ChennaiIndian mentioned, people are generally curious about what happened to theer ancestors and why it happened, that's all.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 10:10 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavalier View Post
I was watching TV on vaigunda egadesi, the presenter was talking about the attack on the temple by "vaetrumadhathar" , wiki tells me it is a general of the khilji dynasty. I was wondering about the kingdoms that were present in TN at that time. Any idea as to who was ruling TN and where they so weak militarily that they couldn't stop the attack?

PS: Discussing history shouldn't be misunderstood as targeting any community of this day. As ChennaiIndian mentioned, people are generally curious about what happened to theer ancestors and why it happened, that's all.
Read Chandilyan's "Cheran Selvi" in that novel he would have described about
how pandya's dynasty was weaken by civil war between pandya's bothers Sundara pandian (elder brother) & veerapandian (younger brother and son of mistress) 14th century.

In the civil war sundara pandiyan was defeated and took shelter of malik kafur (commando of kilji) to lead a war against madurai. because of the civil war the pandya's become weak, but veera pandiyan manage to regain madurai with help of Chera against malik karfur in a war near kancheepuram.

Later Vijananagar empror rose to control south india, and stopped further invasion of muslim kindoms of north until Agbar/Aurangzep's invastion of south india.

As far as I know civil war was one of the factors to weaken the south india/Tamil kingdom. But other factors like drought/flood/ other geological events might have made the situation worse. I have a feeling that we rarely associate the geological events with history.

Kalki's mentioning of drought in "sivagamiyin sabatham" accounted for 13 years delay in attacking Vadabi, could be an exception. I didn't find any other novel mentioning about similar events, and novels will praise more about the hero.

Refs: [Read for the reference, take information ignoring emotions in the page thats my suggestion.]
http://www.tamiltribune.com/02/0202.html
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Last edited by Bless; February 21st, 2010 at 10:16 AM.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 02:14 PM   #23
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Thanks for the info, I would search for that book.

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In the civil war sundara pandiyan was defeated and took shelter of malik kafur (commando of kilji) to lead a war against madurai.
So did Soundrapandiyan actually call for the attack, through out Indian history several kingdoms had fallen because one of the guys voluntarily go and ask for outside "assistance" against their own country.

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As far as I know civil war was one of the factors to weaken the south india/Tamil kingdom. But other factors like drought/flood/ other geological events might have made the situation worse. I have a feeling that we rarely associate the geological events with history.
True, One of the problem with our history is that they teach only about the good times (like the Raja raja chola period), and completely ignore the bad times. They don't go into details about why the local kingdoms fell against foreign forces.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 07:43 PM   #24
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Pl do come out of the Congress authored text books you have read in your life
interesting point and something I have wondered about in the past too. But then what do you think of the Dravidian party authored TN text books ?
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Old March 5th, 2010, 02:29 AM   #25
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An interesting video about my home town, 'Thanjavur'? You need to have a patience, but well worth watching the video, a different dimension about big temple.
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Old March 5th, 2010, 02:30 AM   #26
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Sorry forgot to post the link.
http://video.google.com/googleplayer...28556&hl=en-CA
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Old March 5th, 2010, 08:50 AM   #27
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Edakkal caves

Last week I visited edakkal caves in Wayanad Kerala, the demonstrator(Kerala tourism board) briefed us about the stone age carvings(6000 BC) and Tamil brahmini script(3000 BC) present there. I was really happy to see the tamil inscription and another example of how old our language is..



Some highlights...
  • The tourism department operates Jeep service(4*4 wheel drive) from the bottom of caves to the trekking point. We took the Jeep service but few people started climbing from the bottom itself. As the mountain is very steep, people starting asking lift and they are ready to pay more money for the jeep service. But the driver did not stop in between and did not accept bribe. Happy to see people following rules.
  • The demonstrator warned students making noise in the cave. He cautioned that he will expel people who are making noise or disturbance. He briefed everybody about the inscription(Service provided by tourism dept-no extra charge)
  • On the way back we went to ranganthittu bird sanctuary near Mysore, we paid money for the entrance fee and in another counter we paid money for boating. But soon a tourist informed us that this authorities are not giving tickets for entry and boat. When I demanded ticket the authorities demanded extra money for camera which I paid. But I have seen many not taking ticket to avoid extra cost. It hurt's me following rules here.

Few things Tamilnadu should learn from Kerala in promoting tourism...

-Provide guide service to all historical monuments(Fee can be included in the ticket itself)
-Protect and preserve monuments-seen many spoiling with inscription and damaging it
-Create awareness to maintain discipline and decorum
-Free from beggars
-Make destinations tourist friendly(I feel tourist are exploited)
-Signboards in English
- Clean toilets

If we make this, every one visiting our monuments will take sweet memories and in turn we will have more tourists..

For more info Edakkal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edakkal_Caves
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Old March 8th, 2010, 03:18 PM   #28
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Movie....1000'ill Oruvan...

Guys, Rightly / wrongly the movie is bit of eye opener to me to check out real facts behind the story.....Interesting to know the Dynasty of Cholas and Pandayas..etc...

Pandiyans were seems to be well versed in Trading....and Julius Ceaser daughter name was Pandayas...etc...

And other surprise strory in "Maruthanayagam"...all these days what all I know, Kamal is trying to complete that Movie for ages ....But the info available on Wiki gives good detailed info....

Muhammad Yusuf Khan (1725-1764) or Maruthanayagam (Marudhanayagam) Pillai was born in Pannaiyur, Ramanathapuram District, Tamil Nadu, India in 1725. From humble beginnings, he became a warrior in the Arcot troops, later Commandant for the British East India Company troops. The British and the Arcot Nawab used him to suppress the Polygars (Palayakkarar) in the south of Tamilnadu. Later he was entrusted to administrating the Madurai country when the Madurai Nayaks rule ended.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammed_Yusuf_Khan
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Old March 9th, 2010, 07:08 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by greatchennai View Post
Guys, Rightly / wrongly the movie is bit of eye opener to me to check out real facts behind the story.....Interesting to know the Dynasty of Cholas and Pandayas..etc...

Pandiyans were seems to be well versed in Trading....and Julius Ceaser daughter name was Pandayas...etc...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammed_Yusuf_Khan
That movie has increased the searching of Tamil history for many! Could be kollywood could cash money if they can make some real historical movie with real facts.

AO was a fantasy movie with one concept that "Pandya kingdom and Chola kingdom use to fight among them" We have to wait and see what fantasy ideas we may see in AO2!
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Old March 9th, 2010, 07:09 PM   #30
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Last edited by Arul Murugan; March 9th, 2010 at 07:16 PM. Reason: double post
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Old March 9th, 2010, 08:44 PM   #31
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agreed....i think tamil history is a huge untapped source for movie material. the cholas especially had one of the most eventful interesting reigns in indian history, but it has largely not been discussed in media. movies like 300 and gladiator should be made but instead depict events such as the cholan invasion of malaysia or rajendra's quest to the ganges.
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Old March 10th, 2010, 01:58 AM   #32
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I agree with you Chennai_m. We had our great dynasty in Cholas. But movies like Ayirathil Oruvan should be avoided though it’s the director’s imagination. Since I read the comments about the movie and hated his imagination about Cholas, and not willing to watch the movie though I am from Pandiyan regime Tirunelveli :-).
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Old March 10th, 2010, 03:42 PM   #33
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Princely India was way ahead of Euro

CHENNAI: Centuries before the launch of the Euro — the common currency of the European Union, 16 princely states in ancient India had a common currency in the sixth century BC, historians say.

Displaying 373 silver punch-marked coins from Vaigainallur, a village in Karur district in Tamil Nadu at the Government Museum here, historians said the coins — found in regions spanning from the Himalayas to Cape Comorin in the Indian sub-continent — could have served as a uniform currency of ancient India.

Most of the coins unearthed from different sites of the sub-continent had similar marks on them, making it probable that they were the earliest common currency in India, the historians said.

Dr T S Sridhar, commissioner of museums, and N Sundarajan, curator, numismatics division, said the coins — unearthed from land belonging to a man, Jayaraman, in 2008 — revealed trade ties between Sangam-age Tamils and the Mauryan empire.

Sundarajan said the coins were circulated throughout the Indian sub-continent before the commencement of the Common Era.

Silver coins were used for large but common transactions, and as a unit of account for taxes, dues, contracts and fealty in ancient India, since the time of the Mahajanapadas.

Five symbols including the sun and the six-armed wheel have been identified on the coins, and it is inferred they were issued by the Magadha dynasty.

“Several Sanskrit writers such as Manu, Panini and the Buddhist Jataka tales have mentioned these coins,” Sundarajan said.

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/s...|6QYp3kQ=&SEO=
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Old March 10th, 2010, 03:51 PM   #34
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It should be noted that entire sub continent India was under Maurya empire except the present day Kerala and TN in 350BCE to 200CE, that age forms the Sangam age i.e early Chola, Chera and Pandya kingdoms.

Do we have any written history prior to Sangam age i.e 350BCE? Mahajanapadas does not speak about southern kingdoms?
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Old March 10th, 2010, 09:05 PM   #35
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I don't think there is much written history about TN or South India prior to 300 BCE.

History is being figured out now wrt to the time from of 300 BC and beyond based on new excavations/archeological finds and rewrite and interpret history on the basis of such finds.

Even the history of Sangam age is because of re-discovery of Sangam works only about hundred years back. Prior to that no one knew about old Tamil history either. Most of the other historical information about TN is from copper plates and stone inscriptions in temples and elsewhere.

Initially there were skepticism whether Sangam works had any historical basis or they were just figments of imagination of the poets. Later on, many of the pieces of information from Sangam literature have been corroborated by references in other historical literature in Sanskrit or Pali works in India, Srilanka besides archeological finds in India and abroad - Rome, Egypt, Thailand, etc.

There are also references to TN by ambassadors or historical works from western sources such as Megasthanes' reference to Madurai and Ptolemy' mention about Musiris, etc.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 07:09 AM   #36
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When it comes to history books are much better than movies. Novels tend to go into details because they are not constrained by a 3 hour time limit. Ofcourse the problem with books is that we tend to see things through the authors eyes, who may or may not be biased.

The only novel I ever read was a book called 'Pandiyan Magal', as the name suggest its about a Pandiyan Princess trying to free her land from the Cholas. It was nicely written and went into details like how the cities used to be, how the soldiers were dressed and so on. It was a nice read.

Last edited by Kavalier; March 11th, 2010 at 04:39 PM. Reason: Corrected a mistake pointed out by Arasu
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Old March 11th, 2010, 07:09 AM   #37
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Deleted: Double Post
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Old March 11th, 2010, 02:27 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavalier View Post
When it comes to history books are much better than movies. Movies tend to go into details because they are not constrained by a 3 hour time limit. Ofcourse the problem with books is that we tend to see things through the authors eyes, who may or may not be biased.

The only novel I ever read was a book called 'Pandiyan Magal', as the name suggest its about a Pandiyan Princess trying to free her land from the Cholas. It was nicely written and went into details like how the cities used to be, how the soldiers were dressed and so on. It was a nice read.
I think you meant novels in place of the word movies underlined above.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 04:43 PM   #39
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Yes that's what I meant,
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Old March 12th, 2010, 05:41 AM   #40
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Thanks Arasu, I hope more findings in coming days will help us to know more prior to Sangams. I think Tholkappiyam date is also not yet finalized as many theories are proposed. Same with Indus valley scripts.


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I don't think there is much written history about TN or South India prior to 300 BCE.

History is being figured out now wrt to the time from of 300 BC and beyond based on new excavations/archeological finds and rewrite and interpret history on the basis of such finds.

Even the history of Sangam age is because of re-discovery of Sangam works only about hundred years back. Prior to that no one knew about old Tamil history either. Most of the other historical information about TN is from copper plates and stone inscriptions in temples and elsewhere.

Initially there were skepticism whether Sangam works had any historical basis or they were just figments of imagination of the poets. Later on, many of the pieces of information from Sangam literature have been corroborated by references in other historical literature in Sanskrit or Pali works in India, Srilanka besides archeological finds in India and abroad - Rome, Egypt, Thailand, etc.

There are also references to TN by ambassadors or historical works from western sources such as Megasthanes' reference to Madurai and Ptolemy' mention about Musiris, etc.
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