search the site
 daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > United States > Midwest and Plains > Local Forums > Milwaukee



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 20th, 2017, 04:54 PM   #1341
knope2001
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 37
Likes (Received): 104

FYI it appears St Petersburg/Tampa and Punta Gorda/Ft Myers start in mid October. And all five of these markets are announced as "year round".
__________________

phxtravelboy, skylinedude liked this post
knope2001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 20th, 2017, 05:19 PM   #1342
Steely Dan
born again cyclist
 
Steely Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: old style city
Posts: 3,285
Likes (Received): 1076

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKEEASTSIDER View Post
I'm all for Allegiant coming to Milwaukee since for those who are price sensitive this will prompt them to fly from MKE vs going down to Chicago or Rockford for a cheaper flight
just an FYI, but neither ORD nor MDW currently have any allegiant service.

the closest airport to chicago that allegiant currently has service to is Rockford.
__________________
"I wish they'd hurry up and just destroy humanity already........... it's the waiting that I can't stand" - Philip J. Fry
Steely Dan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 05:31 PM   #1343
MKE-bound
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 563
Likes (Received): 475

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
just an FYI, but neither ORD nor MDW currently have any allegiant service.

the closest airport to chicago that allegiant currently has service to is Rockford.
I think the poster was just saying that the perception is that cheaper flights can be found out of Chicago and Rockford, regardless of airline or airport.
__________________
Great Lakes, great life.

phxtravelboy liked this post
MKE-bound no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 05:37 PM   #1344
MKEEASTSIDER
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 109
Likes (Received): 132

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
just an FYI, but neither ORD nor MDW currently have any allegiant service.

the closest airport to chicago that allegiant currently has service to is Rockford.
I was unclear, I was more referring to going to ORD/MDW to obtain cheaper airfares since those airports have much more competition which is why it can often be cheaper to fly out of there. Not necessarily because they have Allegiant.

With Frontier/Spirit/Southwest all having a large presence and American/United having large hubs, there are often 3+ options to many destinations which can result in bigger price savings.
- Ex: I can fly from MKE to Tampa/St Pete for $320 in Sept while if I go to Chicago I can pay $150 for airfare on Spirit + fees or $233 on United.
- MKE > MIA/FLL is $217 with a connection, Chicago is $164 nonstop on Spirit, JetBlue, and United

TL;DR I'm hoping the increased competition forces the legacies to lower their fares even though I myself will probably never use the Allegiant service.
MKEEASTSIDER no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 05:56 PM   #1345
Steely Dan
born again cyclist
 
Steely Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: old style city
Posts: 3,285
Likes (Received): 1076

^ gotcha.

from the way i read your statement the first time, it seemed to me that you thought that Allegiant was in the Chicago market, but upon rereading it, i can now read it the other way.

chicago is indeed quite lucky to have a competitive air market that offers lots of options.
__________________
"I wish they'd hurry up and just destroy humanity already........... it's the waiting that I can't stand" - Philip J. Fry
Steely Dan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 07:09 PM   #1346
mkebrewers9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Franklin, WI
Posts: 283
Likes (Received): 379

Any guesses on what gate(s) Allegiant might use? I wouldn't be surprised if they utilized the ground boarding gates on D. What are they D27-29? If the airport gave them a cheaper lease on them and they're all about saving money why not?
__________________
MKE BREWERS 9
mkebrewers9 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 08:14 PM   #1347
eaglesfant37
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 999
Likes (Received): 1106

This might belong in around the bubbler, but can anyone here explain the huge price difference in TATL flights between Chicago and east coast airports like DC, Baltimore, Philly, NYC, and Boston?

The reason I bring this up is because I'm looking for flights again and typically MKE is only a couple hundred dollars more than O'Hare but O'Hare is anywhere from $600 - to $1,000 more expensive than any of the north east cities I mentioned. The route I am looking at in particular is at least $800 cheaper in those cities than O'Hare.

I know the east coast cities are closer, but not that much closer than Chicago. My theory is that not only do the north east cities have more competition per airport, but the airports themselves compete with each other further driving down prices since they are all located so close to each other. The closest major international to airports to Chicago are Minneapolis and Detroit. Really there is no other major competitor in the Midwest.
eaglesfant37 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 09:54 PM   #1348
MKEEASTSIDER
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 109
Likes (Received): 132

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglesfant37 View Post
This might belong in around the bubbler, but can anyone here explain the huge price difference in TATL flights between Chicago and east coast airports like DC, Baltimore, Philly, NYC, and Boston?

The reason I bring this up is because I'm looking for flights again and typically MKE is only a couple hundred dollars more than O'Hare but O'Hare is anywhere from $600 - to $1,000 more expensive than any of the north east cities I mentioned. The route I am looking at in particular is at least $800 cheaper in those cities than O'Hare.

I know the east coast cities are closer, but not that much closer than Chicago. My theory is that not only do the north east cities have more competition per airport, but the airports themselves compete with each other further driving down prices since they are all located so close to each other. The closest major international to airports to Chicago are Minneapolis and Detroit. Really there is no other major competitor in the Midwest.
I can't give you a direct answer but would suspect competition is key. Alliances will often do similar pricing strategies so in places like MSP and Detroit you are primarily looking at SkyTeam which is Delta/Air France/KLM. Chicago does have the other two big alliances going head to head but doesn't seem to get as good of deals.
- I was reading a travel blogger who highlighted that there are ~33 flights a day between NYC and London which probably is a good example of why flights are lower there.

One tip I can offer is that it can often save money to 'position' yourself to a cheaper airport to fly out of.
- Ex: The wife and I are flying from MKE > LGA on a $250 / ticket round trip flight, $40 uber to JFK, and then from JFK>CDG>OPO (Porto) for about $500 cheaper all in than if we booked it from MKE>Connection>OPO.

It can add a few hours of time to the overall trip but can be worth it to save that amount of money.

Flyertalk.com has a few dedicated forums to premium fare and mileage run deals that are worth following if you are trying to catch a good sale and have flexible dates.
__________________

phxtravelboy liked this post
MKEEASTSIDER no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 09:59 PM   #1349
eaglesfant37
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 999
Likes (Received): 1106

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKEEASTSIDER View Post
I can't give you a direct answer but would suspect competition is key. Alliances will often do similar pricing strategies so in places like MSP and Detroit you are primarily looking at SkyTeam which is Delta/Air France/KLM. Chicago does have the other two big alliances going head to head but doesn't seem to get as good of deals.
- I was reading a travel blogger who highlighted that there are ~33 flights a day between NYC and London which probably is a good example of why flights are lower there.

One tip I can offer is that it can often save money to 'position' yourself to a cheaper airport to fly out of.
- Ex: The wife and I are flying from MKE > LGA on a $250 / ticket round trip flight, $40 uber to JFK, and then from JFK>CDG>OPO (Porto) for about $500 cheaper all in than if we booked it from MKE>Connection>OPO.

It can add a few hours of time to the overall trip but can be worth it to save that amount of money.

Flyertalk.com has a few dedicated forums to premium fare and mileage run deals that are worth following if you are trying to catch a good sale and have flexible dates.
Actually this is exactly what I was going to do, fly MKE to New York or Boston and then catch a flight to Barcelona. MKE still gets the traffic albeit not international and it saves hundreds over flying out of O'Hare.
__________________

MKE-bound, phxtravelboy liked this post
eaglesfant37 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 11:39 PM   #1350
knope2001
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 37
Likes (Received): 104

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglesfant37 View Post
Actually this is exactly what I was going to do, fly MKE to New York or Boston and then catch a flight to Barcelona. MKE still gets the traffic albeit not international and it saves hundreds over flying out of O'Hare.


Completely agree on this. The transatlantic market is bigger and the competition is stronger in the northeast, so you'll often find much better fares out of places like NY and BOS than Chicago. The same is true to Asia and Australia/New Zealand. It's often hundreds of dollars cheaper to buy a domestic ticket to LA or SF and then buy a separate ticket to Sydney or Auckland than a single ticket form the Midwest to either city.
__________________

phxtravelboy liked this post
knope2001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 11:46 PM   #1351
knope2001
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 37
Likes (Received): 104

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkebrewers9 View Post
Any guesses on what gate(s) Allegiant might use? I wouldn't be surprised if they utilized the ground boarding gates on D. What are they D27-29? If the airport gave them a cheaper lease on them and they're all about saving money why not?


I don't think Mitchell would allow ground boarding of a mainline aircraft like Allegiant flies unless they changed some rules for them.


My guess would be Allegiant will be on the 30-side of D. D30 has a mobile jet bridge which is not routinely used. Norwegian parked there sometimes but I don't think they actively used it...they boarded at D53 and D39


I believe there are plans to replace the old-style fixed jet bridges at D34/36/38 with mobile ones, though I don't know the specific timeframe. Assuming those old jet bridges are even operational (time and disuse may have hurt them) they are very limited in use. They worked for stuff like DC-9's and Embraer E170 but they can't go down to handle an RJ. And the space is tight. Back in the Midwest and Frontier days they couldn't put an M80 nor an A319 at D34/36/38. So there may be some reconfiguration in the mix when jet bridges are replaced. No sense in adding modern jet bridges to gates which can't handle anything bigger than a 717. Trends are toward bigger planes.
__________________

mkebrewers9 liked this post

Last edited by knope2001; June 21st, 2017 at 12:04 AM.
knope2001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2017, 11:59 PM   #1352
mkebrewers9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Franklin, WI
Posts: 283
Likes (Received): 379

I ask because I saw this while browsing Allegiant. I thought it'd be kinda cool if MKE added this to the ground floor of D. I realize it wouldn't be used year round here, but a cool summer feature. Think airport beer garden.
__________________
MKE BREWERS 9
mkebrewers9 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2017, 01:34 AM   #1353
phxtravelboy
Registered User
 
phxtravelboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 365
Likes (Received): 343

Quote:
Originally Posted by knope2001 View Post
The initial schedule starts mid-November and has 2x/week toe ach market for 10 departures per week. Typically they have around 166 seats per plane so the capacity they are initially offering is similar to if somebody else added 2x/day 717, or 3x/dayE75, or 5x/day 50-seat RJs.So it willbe a very nice bump.Their schedule onlygoes out to February 13th at this point so we’ll see if they addcapacity for the spring break peak.

For those not familiar with Allegiant they do a great deal of seasonal shifting and are highly, highly focused on leisure travel. Their bread and butter for years was linkingsmaller markets like Appleton, Springfield, Fargo, Grand Island nonstop toVegas and/or Florida with less than daily nonstop flights.Low fares and an unusually high portion ofvacation package sales are the norm.Asthey have grown they have added more “vacation destinations” such as LA, MyrtleBeach, San Diego, Baltimore/Washington, and the “origins” have gottenlarger.In recent years they’ve addedplaces like Kansas City, Cincinnati, San Antonio, Omaha, Indianapolis,etc.So it’s high time forMilwaukee.

Allegiant is notorious about low airport costs and they havenot been shy about their demands. They famously moved from Green Bay to Appleton because Appleton offered lower costsand Green Bay wouldn’t play ball. Airports have a fine line to walk because if they give the farm away to a competitor,the incumbent airlines may push for a similar deal and/or disfavor theairport.Southwest was unhappy with ElPaso’s costs years back and as a result cut way back on the flights routed through ELP. So I’m glad that if there were issues at MKE, apparently they found a way to work things out.
In Allegiant's press release they stated they expect to carry 117,000 passengers in their first year in MKE so that's obviously a very healthy bump in traffic. I'm very glad they're coming to MKE to stimulate that new traffic.

I flew on them from Phoenix/Mesa-Appleton return once and will never set foot on them again. By the time you add up the extra costs for everything they charge you for, to me at least, it just wasn't worth it. I'd personally rather pay the $20 more or whatever it is to fly on an airline I have frequent flyer status with. But for those that are very price sensitive, this will be an excellent option for them.
__________________

eaglesfant37, MKEEASTSIDER liked this post
phxtravelboy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2017, 01:41 AM   #1354
phxtravelboy
Registered User
 
phxtravelboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 365
Likes (Received): 343

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkebrewers9 View Post
Any guesses on what gate(s) Allegiant might use? I wouldn't be surprised if they utilized the ground boarding gates on D. What are they D27-29? If the airport gave them a cheaper lease on them and they're all about saving money why not?
Here at the Phoenix/Mesa hub, Allegiant uses a mobile boarding thing on wheels. Passengers walk onto the tarmac, and then step on the mobile thing that has an elevated ramp that does a switch back to gain the height needed to reach the boarding door. In Appleton, Allegiant uses a "normal" jet bridge, so I wouldn't be surprised if they do in MKE too.
phxtravelboy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2017, 03:41 AM   #1355
eaglesfant37
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 999
Likes (Received): 1106

Another question for some of you airline gurus out there. From my understanding, Allegient's main competitor is Spirit Airlines (I could be wrong). Is there a history in the industry of where Allegient/Spirit enter a market, the other airline enters too in order to compete, or do the airlines focus mainly on separate airports and compete indirectly? I am hoping that Spirit will give Milwaukee a serious look now that Allegient is having year round service to 5 and possibly more airports. I am also hoping Jet Blue starts service one day.
eaglesfant37 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2017, 05:11 AM   #1356
knope2001
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 37
Likes (Received): 104

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglesfant37 View Post
Another question for some of you airline gurus out there. From my understanding, Allegient's main competitor is Spirit Airlines (I could be wrong). Is there a history in the industry of where Allegient/Spirit enter a market, the other airline enters too in order to compete, or do the airlines focus mainly on separate airports and compete indirectly? I am hoping that Spirit will give Milwaukee a serious look now that Allegient is having year round service to 5 and possibly more airports. I am also hoping Jet Blue starts service one day.
Until recently they most stayed out of each other's hair.

Allegiant mostly linked a few big leisure markets like Vegas and Florida with third/fourth tier places like Syracuse, Eugene, Minot, Little Rock, Chattanooga, Grand Island, etc. They tend to fly routes 2-4 times per week.

Spirit mostly linked top-tier airports like Denver, Houston, Chicago, Fort Lauderdale, Detroit, Los Angeles, etc. They tend to fly routes 1x per day.

In the past year or two, however, they are starting to converge in the middle. Allegiant has been moving upward into bigger markets like Omaha, Memphis, Tulsa, San Antonio, Indianapolis, etc. And Spirit has added more second-tier airports like Kansas City (MCI), Cleveland (CLE) and Pittsburgh (PIT).

It's those three airports (MCI, CLE, PIT) where Allegiant and Spirit are starting to spar, though they are (so far) more coexisting than challenging each other. A few routes of direct overlap and some adjacent-airport competition (like Spirit to Tampa and Allegiant to St Pete) but mostly they do not overlap aggressively.

So will Spirit come to Milwaukee? Not impossible but neither is it a safe bet. So far the two airlines don't seem to be chasing after each other. And Milwaukee may not be the place for their next point of contention, either. Here's why:

--Kansas City, Cleveland and Pittsburgh are larger markets than MKE.

--Southwest is a more dominant foe here than they are in Cleveland and Pittsburgh. CLE and PIT were somewhat more open to penetration.

--In Kansas City where Southwest does have a large market share similar to Milwaukee, Spirit has not done so well.

The wild card is that Spirit is now led by none other than Bob Fornaro who was at the controls when AirTran built up Milwaukee. If he's convinced like he was 10+ years ago that Milwaukee had much greater potential than other airlines saw, it could tip Spirit's tendencies our direction. On the flip side he could be the most aware of Milwaukee's characteristics and limitations. So with Milwaukee a "known quantity" to him there may not be any impetus to try expansion here if he feels Southwest, Frontier and now Allegiant have it mostly covered.

I certainly would welcome Spirit, but for the time being at least I hope that Allegiant does well and we see places like Destin, Austin and Myrtle Beach join the roster next spring.
__________________

eaglesfant37, MKE-bound, phxtravelboy liked this post

Last edited by knope2001; June 21st, 2017 at 05:17 AM.
knope2001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2017, 02:40 PM   #1357
MKE-bound
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 563
Likes (Received): 475

I would also add that if Allegiant can stimulate enough "un-vended" market here, Frontier may see opportunities to (re) expand at MKE. I'm personally hoping for a nonstop to New Orleans from someone.
__________________
Great Lakes, great life.
MKE-bound no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2017, 11:11 PM   #1358
phxtravelboy
Registered User
 
phxtravelboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 365
Likes (Received): 343

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKE-bound View Post
I would also add that if Allegiant can stimulate enough "un-vended" market here, Frontier may see opportunities to (re) expand at MKE. I'm personally hoping for a nonstop to New Orleans from someone.
Southwest did have a nonstop to New Orleans from MKE. They played around with it quite a bit though. It seems like it was Saturday only if I remember correctly, then it went to daily, then seasonal, then dropped altogether.

I think that would be a perfect market for Allegiant with their less than daily schedules as that should work methinks.
__________________

mkebrewers9 liked this post
phxtravelboy no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
air transportation, airport, harbor, milwaukee, port

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu