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Old October 7th, 2011, 01:12 PM   #681
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All we need is someone in a position of power to knock heads together and show some vision.

Someone like …I dunno… a Mayor or something.
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Old October 8th, 2011, 12:28 AM   #682
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Dude, the majority of Londoners think the South Bank Centre is shit. I'd hardly call it historic either. Just the sort of thing that needs redeveloping.
Im not necessarily taking about the south bank...There are beauties in the West end and kensington that are being destroyed and replaces with crap. It is like every new design is a box! It is ridiculous, the architects should of learnt from the disaster in the 60s. What are they going to demolish next? St Pauls? the palace of westminster? and replace them with glass boxes...
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Old October 8th, 2011, 12:48 AM   #683
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. What are they going to demolish next? St Pauls? the palace of westminster? and replace them with glass boxes...
Um ... No .
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Old October 8th, 2011, 11:13 AM   #684
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I agree the building on the opposite side of the road is god awful and is being replaced by... http://www.wilkinsoneyre.com/project...ategory=office
looks like the strand is in for some serious improvement in the next few years!
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Old October 8th, 2011, 11:51 AM   #685
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Victoria development is Lynch’s big break
5 May 2011
Former BD Young Architect of the Year, Lynch Architects, has submitted a major mixed use development on London’s Victoria Street for planning permission.

The practice, whose largest completed building to date is a single family house in Hackney, won the commission from developer Land Securities in competition last year.

It is proposed that 22,277 m2 of office space and 102 luxury residential units will be distributed over two buildings with 5125m2 of ground level retail and restaurant space spread between the two.

A landscaping strategy by the Swiss practice Vogt proposes the creation of a new public space incorporating artwork by Olafur Eliasson.





man that's bad..
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Old October 8th, 2011, 12:36 PM   #686
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CGI fly-through of the UK's first urban cable car. Scheduled to enter service in Summer 2012.


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Old October 8th, 2011, 01:22 PM   #687
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Anyone else find the apparent easiness of the London transport logo and emirates together is a disturbing development....what's next McDonald's sponsors the jubilee line?
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Old October 8th, 2011, 01:25 PM   #688
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Anyone else find the apparent easiness of the London transport logo and emirates together is a disturbing development....what's next McDonald's sponsors the jubilee line?
In these calamitous economic times, if it helps to boost jobs and investment then I don't really have a problem with it.
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Old October 8th, 2011, 01:27 PM   #689
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In these calamitous economic times, if it helps to boost jobs and investment then I don't really have a problem with it.
As a temporary measure it would be fine but London transport should not be 'sponsored'
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Old October 9th, 2011, 09:35 AM   #690
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In these calamitous economic times, if it helps to boost jobs and investment then I don't really have a problem with it.
The problem is that this project, which was supposed to be delivered at "no cost to the taxpayer" is going to cost TFL £60m up front.

The cost of construction has more than doubled from the £25m Boris originally quoted, which sounds like staggering incompetence somewhere.

If Emirates wants to have their name on it, then they can foot the whole bill at their own risk, no public money should be available and if that's not the case, and it isn't, the project should be scrapped.

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/92...ises_to___60m/
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Old October 9th, 2011, 12:05 PM   #691
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Since when did all transport projects have to be wholly privately funded?
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Old October 9th, 2011, 12:31 PM   #692
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Since when did all transport projects have to be wholly privately funded?
They don't, but this doesn't serve any serious transport purpose, it's a Boris "look at me project". He was initially quite adamant it wouldn't require any public money. Presumably you agree that £60m is not "no public money"?


So Boris's original assertion turns out not to be true, so the project should be scrapped before any further ressources are wasted on it.

I'm trying to imagine your stance if Ken had tried and pull a stunt like this.



If Emirates want their name on a cable car they can build it, run it, and take the financial risk on it (or pocket the profit on it, if they can make one).
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Old October 9th, 2011, 12:39 PM   #693
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It moves people from A to B. It is part transport solution, part tourist attraction. It will draw people to the area in the way the wheel did but also offer a genuine transport option which will potentially become more useful as the area develops. The build it and they come vision never seemed to bother people under Ken. His DLR extensions to nowhere were seen as visionary. His pedestrian / cycle crossing from Canada Water to Canary wharf, despite following a route already served by a tube line was seen as a smart way of enhancing the transport options available. What is the difference?

So it is part transport part attraction. And is part publicly and part privately funded. 60% private 40% public to be precise. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Two further crossings will be accounced shortly to replace the woolwich ferry. A bridge and a tunnel. One at Gallions Reach and the other at Silvertown. Taken altogether this will be a vast improvement for this part of London.

If I have a criticism it is that Boris cancelled a bridge project and now seems to want to reinstate it. Hopefully they have vastly improved on the plans that we being worked up under Ken. It sounds like they have but I am interested to see the details.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 01:08 PM   #694
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Pretty sure that £60 million figure is not the construction cost. That will account for most of it, but to get that figure I think they are including things like maintenance for a certain number of years, and costs already incurred in the planning process and design. For privately built cable cars, a lot of these figures would be hidden in the balance sheets of corporations. Public bodies are more transparent, and as such are easy targets for the ignorant press. Same thing happened with the Olympics. The government first quoted a low figure, which steadily grew higher and more costs such as security were factored in. The press had a field day, yet the actual construction costs were still pretty much what they first quoted.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 08:38 PM   #695
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sponsorship may have a purpose if the transport was then free to the public.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 09:44 PM   #696
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Quote:
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It moves people from A to B. It is part transport solution, part tourist attraction..
What's the transport solution it provides? Essentially it links Excel with the O2 which is a journey I'm at a loss to think why many people would want to make and, furthermore, if they do want to then there is already a perfectly adequate route using the DLR & the Jubilee line.

Quote:
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It will draw people to the area in the way the wheel did
Time will tell but I doubt that very much, and presumably so does most potential private sector investors, otherwise it wouldn't have needed taxpayer money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Octoman View Post
but also offer a genuine transport option which will potentially become more useful as the area develops.
Not as far as I can see it doesn't

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octoman View Post

The build it and they come vision never seemed to bother people under Ken. His DLR extensions to nowhere were seen as visionary. His pedestrian / cycle crossing from Canada Water to Canary wharf, despite following a route already served by a tube line was seen as a smart way of enhancing the transport options available. What is the difference?
The difference is that these options all serve genuine transport needs, the cable car doesn't

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So it is part transport part attraction. And is part publicly and part privately funded. 60% private 40% public to be precise. Seems pretty reasonable to me.




Not when it was supposed to be 100% private it isn't. You can choose between calling it incompetece or lying - depending on whether it was a deliberate deception or not, but no way it's reasonable. Crucially Ken never stated that he's projects would be at no cost to the taxpayer. I care about politicians keeping their promises and telling the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octoman View Post


Two further crossings will be accounced shortly to replace the woolwich ferry. A bridge and a tunnel. One at Gallions Reach and the other at Silvertown. Taken altogether this will be a vast improvement for this part of London.

If I have a criticism it is that Boris cancelled a bridge project and now seems to want to reinstate it. Hopefully they have vastly improved on the plans that we being worked up under Ken. It sounds like they have but I am interested to see the details.
A proper east london connection, for cars, bikes & pedestrians is certainly needed, the cable cars contribution to this is negligible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Rising
Pretty sure that £60 million figure is not the construction cost. That will account for most of it, but to get that figure I think they are including things like maintenance for a certain number of years, and costs already incurred in the planning process and design
It includes the latter but not the former, it's the cost to get to completion, as you'd expect.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 11:35 AM   #697
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sponsorship may have a purpose if the transport was then free to the public.
It won't attract as much sponsorship if the sponsors can't recoup some of their expenditure from fares. Free rides just means a heavier burdon on the taxpayer. Why should Londoners who'll never use it be taxed to provide free rides to tourists and locals? No other form of transport is free. It's enough that Emirates subsidise this development to minimise taxpayer expenditure.

Emirates' sponsorship recalls BA's sponsorship of the London Eye.
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Old October 10th, 2011, 12:44 PM   #698
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But then we didnt have BA plastered all over the capsule windows. The idea of diluting the design branding of Transport for London which deals concisely with the legibility and importance of public transport with the fanciful subversive world of corporate marketing is a dangerous step.

Actually isn't advertising banned on the Thames? Or does this run out after Tower Bridge?
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Old October 10th, 2011, 01:41 PM   #699
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What is the big fear or corporate sponsorship? Surely the biggest 'risk' is that someone might see the brand and go out and book a flight with Emirates?

Why are people berating Westminster council for example for not allowing more bright neon corporate sponsortship to be plasted over the historic buildings of Picadilly in the core of London but seem to have a major issue with a company having its name on a capsule 100 ft in the air in a far flung part of London?
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Old October 10th, 2011, 01:56 PM   #700
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Im talking more about branding the line on the map and potentially names of the stations rather than the capsules themselves, I think this goes beyond advertising into the realms of meddling with the clear function of public transport. Also I am more in favour of branded digital displays for cultural information, art and entertainment rather than purely for advertising.

The current screens in Piccadilly tread a fine line but the screen in Leicester Square that was refused planning permission now right next door to the loud M&Ms building went out of its way to show a more cultural and artistic use. Westminster with their knickers in a twist as usual.

Last edited by potto; October 10th, 2011 at 02:05 PM.
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