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Old March 12th, 2011, 04:50 AM   #41
rychlik
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I want to see the Saski Palace rebuilt.







Before the war.





Excavations of this site a couple of years ago.














There should be a palace there.

image hosted on flickr

Last edited by rychlik; March 12th, 2011 at 05:10 AM.
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Old March 12th, 2011, 05:09 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
The achievement they made is SO impressive! I'm really at a loss of words... And I am a tiny bit jealous.
Thanks for the kind words. Some westerners and even Poles say Warsaw is "ugly". I totally disagree and it's extremely unfair to this great city.
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Old March 12th, 2011, 06:56 AM   #43
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It's a complex city, it's no cute perfect twink of a city, but rather a battered old beauty with lots of scars. Saski will get rebuilt, but when who knows right now with all the money going to infrastructure.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old March 15th, 2011, 07:03 AM   #44
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Let's hope they rebuilt the castle it would look great
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Old March 15th, 2011, 01:58 PM   #45
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A very interesting thread. Much appreciation for the effort you are putting into it.
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Old March 15th, 2011, 03:06 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rychlik View Post
Thanks for the kind words. Some westerners and even Poles say Warsaw is "ugly". I totally disagree and it's extremely unfair to this great city.
Well it is ugly as a whole, when being completely objective in the same way you could call London and Berlin ugly. It is perfectly understandable that people think this way. However it is undeniable that it is a city with incredible pockets of beauty, and most importantly it has lots of character and a great atmosphere.
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Old March 15th, 2011, 06:38 PM   #47
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Thank you for all the nice comments and feedback. I will be posting more shortly
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Old March 15th, 2011, 11:28 PM   #48
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Well it is ugly as a whole, when being completely objective in the same way you could call London and Berlin ugly. It is perfectly understandable that people think this way. However it is undeniable that it is a city with incredible pockets of beauty, and most importantly it has lots of character and a great atmosphere.
Typical Polish thinking. Always playing up the negative. Never see the positive. Just lie and advertise the positives like all the former imperialist western European countries do If you lie enough to people about how great your culture and cities are then it eventually becomes true.
Poles are terrible at this. Not every corner of Rome and Paris is sparkling and clean. The whole of Rome and Paris is not just the historical center. The cities do have their suburbs and believe me they don't look any better in some areas than Warsaws suburbs. Again the touristy historical centers of cities like Paris and Rome are not the whole of the city. The Japanese and Koreans seem to like our Polish capital.

Also, a city is not just beautiful or ugly. There is an in between. I am glad that Warsaw doesn't have 3rd world ghetto's like in most of western European capitals.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 01:29 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rychlik View Post
Typical Polish thinking. Always playing up the negative. Never see the positive. Just lie and advertise the positives like all the former imperialist western European countries do If you lie enough to people about how great your culture and cities are then it eventually becomes true.
Poles are terrible at this. Not every corner of Rome and Paris is sparkling and clean. The whole of Rome and Paris is not just the historical center. The cities do have their suburbs and believe me they don't look any better in some areas than Warsaws suburbs. Again the touristy historical centers of cities like Paris and Rome are not the whole of the city. The Japanese and Koreans seem to like our Polish capital. Also, a city is not just beautiful or ugly. There is an in between. I am glad that Warsaw doesn't have 3rd world ghetto's like in most of western European capitals.
why should we lie about the reality? why can't we appreciate the thread and stay on topic without any silly comparisons with rome or paris? the warsaw case study has it's own chapter in many restoration manuals around the world both for it's size and for the thoroughness (at least it had one in mine textbook here in italy) but it's not related with the overall beauty or ugliness of the city and it's not necessary to start such pointless discussions here.

you say that the pessimism is typical polish thinking, it's not completely true, i think there are two dominant polish ways of thinking here on ssc, the negative one and yours, also known as "poland strong!!!!1" that probably is ruining the image of the country much more than the pessimistic one

thanks for the photos Urbanista1, some of them i see for the first time...
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Old March 16th, 2011, 02:26 AM   #50
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glad you like the pics, many more first-time ever seen (I hope) are coming. As to comments above, I think what rychlik is bristling at is the statement that Warsaw is ugly, that shocked me too, because it is a negative oversimplification that triggers off defensive reactions by the rah rah Poland crowd. Any way, I love Rome and Paris and Warsaw because they aren't perfect and indeed have their seedy, grimey and not gentrified sides.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 03:42 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumping_jack View Post
why should we lie about the reality? why can't we appreciate the thread and stay on topic without any silly comparisons with rome or paris? the warsaw case study has it's own chapter in many restoration manuals around the world both for it's size and for the thoroughness (at least it had one in mine textbook here in italy) but it's not related with the overall beauty or ugliness of the city and it's not necessary to start such pointless discussions here.

you say that the pessimism is typical polish thinking, it's not completely true, i think there are two dominant polish ways of thinking here on ssc, the negative one and yours, also known as "poland strong!!!!1" that probably is ruining the image of the country much more than the pessimistic one

thanks for the photos Urbanista1, some of them i see for the first time...
"Why should we lie about reality?" Uh oh. I sense a bit of western European arrogance But Italians are like this- no offense to you of course. It comes off obnoxious but it is a bit of a national character trait.
It seems like a fella can't have an opinion anymore. But understand I am not trying to be offensive.

Urbanista understands my approach. Now let's enjoy the thread guys.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 04:24 AM   #52
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i wonder how my rightful question about your statment can be arrogant?

you wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rychlik View Post
Just lie (...) If you lie enough to people about how great your culture and cities are then it eventually becomes true.
and how can this supposed arrogance be a distinctive italian trait if i'm 100% genuine góral (highlander), born in poland from polish parents and i still have polish citizenship? in fact i said "why should we lie about reality?"

correct me if i'm wrong but seeking wrong in a fair fact made by a person not related to an ethnic group just to proof negative qualities of that ethnic group is a racist manipulation or at least a prejudice? no offense to you of course

i don't know what kind of italians you have met in your life or if you just base your opinion on the sopranos series but it's really hard to describe italians as arrogant people...

yeah, let's enjoy the thread and slow down rychlik, you're losing touch with reality

Last edited by jumping_jack; March 16th, 2011 at 04:29 AM.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 04:27 AM   #53
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Royal Castle in 1939.




Before




After

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Old March 16th, 2011, 05:04 AM   #54
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This is generally what the city looks like. No skyline. I would not go as far as to say it is "ugly". Now Detroit? That's ugly

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Old March 16th, 2011, 08:00 AM   #55
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Zamkowy Square and Surroundings

Before



After



Before



After



Before The War



After the War



After Reconstruction



Before



After



Before



Now - nature heals all wounds


Before



After



During the War



After the War





During Reconstruction

First works







After Reconstruction



Not the right view, but this is my favourite view of the castle



Before



After



View of Zamkowy Square from Krakowskie Przedmiescie, the first section of the Royal Route that leads to the Royal Baths (Lazienky Park) and the Royal Summer Palace at Wilanow



Thanks to Polex
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

Last edited by Urbanista1; January 12th, 2015 at 06:57 PM.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 12:06 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumping_jack View Post
why can't we appreciate the thread and stay on topic without any silly comparisons with rome or paris? the warsaw case study has it's own chapter in many restoration manuals around the world both for it's size and for the thoroughness (at least it had one in mine textbook here in italy) but it's not related with the overall beauty or ugliness of the city and it's not necessary to start such pointless discussions here.
You can't be more right.
Quote:
you say that the pessimism is typical polish thinking, it's not completely true, i think there are two dominant polish ways of thinking here on ssc, the negative one and yours, also known as "poland strong!!!!1" that probably is ruining the image of the country much more than the pessimistic one
Most of Poles belong to a third group, they take part in Forum Polskich Wieżowców. International forum is dominated by incompetent propagandists, but Urbanista1's idea for this thread is interesting.
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Last edited by Petr; March 16th, 2011 at 12:19 PM.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 10:07 PM   #57
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Great updates! I think though I prefer the look of the church before the war instead of the way it looks today.
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Old March 16th, 2011, 11:14 PM   #58
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A agree with you. I know the area around thid Church is supposed to get renovated into a square. Wouldn't it be great if they rebuilt the church as well? But it won't happen.

http://mikerychlik.ifp3.com/
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Old March 17th, 2011, 01:11 AM   #59
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Great updates! I think though I prefer the look of the church before the war instead of the way it looks today.
You mean St. John's Cathedral? The pre-war mannerist style was more decorative, but I have grown to like the restrained Mazovian Gothic - this is what the church looked like more or less before later changes and accretions...much more like the church of thye Virgin Mary in the New Town.
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Old March 17th, 2011, 07:28 PM   #60
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I think they mean St. Alexander Church and the come-back to it's original, Aigner's form.
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