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Old April 13th, 2014, 11:51 PM   #61
Mruczek
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Originally Posted by skyscraperus View Post
I think that is no matter what stood here previously, it is matter what here belong. Why must be reconstruction, may be only few houses in old style that belongs in that place with all rest sorounding buildings (historical churches, houses...).
"What here belongs" might be the subject of discussion and controversy. And, frankly speaking, it is the matter of taste. The great value of Frankfurt's Old Town, on the other hand, is beyond doubt and beyond discussion.

Plus, if I visit Frankfurt I'd really prefer to visit original or (as a second best choice) reconstructed historical buildings, not fantasies of today's architects.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 12:37 AM   #62
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Why is Germany putting up modern bullshit in these reconstructions? wtf seriously.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 01:48 AM   #63
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Of course it's modernism, as the streamlined replicas evoke many modernist principles.

It's funny how so many have criticized the artful and restorative rebuilding of the Neumarkt in Dresden as "fake" and "faux" architecture, yet they embrace these hybrid bastards, that have no clear identity, as being valuable "background" pieces. Seems to suggest a lack of commitment and/or understanding of why and how restoration projects should work, in my view.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 03:03 AM   #64
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Of course it's modernism, as the streamlined replicas evoke many modernist principles.
ORLY? Which principles?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 11:26 PM   #65
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ORLY? Which principles?
absolute lack of ornament, for one
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Old April 15th, 2014, 03:48 AM   #66
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Right.
Further, the roof line treatment is a failed attempt to infuse the character of the original appearances of the area; it simply does not overcome the hard horizontal and vertical lines that dominate the designs. While better than had the architects gone straight up with their modern treatments to a flat roof, we can hope enough pressure will come to bear that will achieve a more suitable look.
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Old April 15th, 2014, 09:57 AM   #67
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Indeed.

This was written at the Berlin Stadtschloss thread, but fits right in here with this discussion of "authencity" popping up lately:
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If the soul of a building has to be reduced to the original stones, then there are many 'fake' landmark buildings. Are the brandenburg gates 'fake' because they were half demolished and restored a few years back? Or do the gates represent something larger then the stones themselves.

Have you ever heard an American call the Whitehouse 'fake' because it was reduced to smoldering shell and rebuilt in 1814? Or was the reconstruction a representation of the determination of the people of that time to rebuild and move forward.
Add to that the Venice Campanile, Warsaw old town, Montecassino, Dresden's Frauenkirche, Würzburg Residence and several others that were pretty much reduced to rubble once.

And btw, portions of Frankfurt's Altstadt are reconstructed already. Most notably the Römer City Hall and the Ostzeile/Samstagberg (1980s).

All new:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...n-20110705.jpg
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Old April 15th, 2014, 08:08 PM   #68
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Quote:
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Plus, if I visit Frankfurt I'd really prefer to visit original or (as a second best choice) reconstructed historical buildings, not fantasies of today's architects.
Thousands neogothic buildings around Europe are fantasies of modern 19 and 20 century architects. Neogothic buildings are not reconstructed gothic buildings. Who cares about that, it is only matter that they are nice buildings. Why we must to be afraid in 21 century to build like 19 and 20 century architects in neo styles?
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Old April 15th, 2014, 11:47 PM   #69
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If modern architecture harmonizes and simply works, it's all well. If it clashes and disharmonizes, it sucks.

There are several examples among the contemporary designs for Frankfurt's old town that prove both is true.

Go check for yourself, just click the red dots and hover through: http://www.domroemer.de/virtueller-rundgang
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Old April 16th, 2014, 12:51 AM   #70
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Thousands neogothic buildings around Europe are fantasies of modern 19 and 20 century architects. Neogothic buildings are not reconstructed gothic buildings.
Because Frankurt's Old Town is too precious to waste public money, by building mediocre and typical stuff on the spot, where masterpieces once stood.

I accept two kinds of buildings in historic areas (such as Frankfurt's Altstadt) t.b.c. Either faithful reconstructions (where sky is the limit, i.e. ample funding from federal/Land budget + thorough historical reconstruction without economising on anything, and basically doing as well as it gets, like in Dresden or Warsaw), which I hope will be used in Frankfurt, or "architecture of background", with legal obligation of maintaining the medieval plots of lands, width, length, shape, size of buildings, but with architecture without much limits - let investor decide, what suits him best.

Certainly I do not recommend the situation, where some planning commitee is - while accepting the new building, not the reconstruction - forcing one or other style (or even the particular project) of new building made from the scratch, because of arbitary decision.

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Originally Posted by skyscraperus View Post
Who cares about that, it is only matter that they are nice buildings. Why we must to be afraid in 21 century to build like 19 and 20 century architects in neo styles?
Because today's projects are cheaper, that's why Why do you think anyone is into development business? Even in rich countries, such as Germany, the priority number one of construction/developer business is to earn money on it. Historic styles are simply too expensive. They can cover 20-30% of the market, but not the majority.

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If modern architecture harmonizes and simply works, it's all well.
Precisely.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 07:47 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
Because today's projects are cheaper, that's why Why do you think anyone is into development business? Even in rich countries, such as Germany, the priority number one of construction/developer business is to earn money on it. Historic styles are simply too expensive. They can cover 20-30% of the market, but not the majority.
so how is it possible that buildings in historic/eclectic styles were profitable in 19th century and covered 99% of market ? Please remember that resources were much more scarce, sophisticated building technologies non-existent and people were generally much poorer back then.
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Old April 18th, 2014, 12:30 AM   #72
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so how is it possible that buildings in historic/eclectic styles were profitable in 19th century and covered 99% of market ? Please remember that resources were much more scarce, sophisticated building technologies non-existent and people were generally much poorer back then.
Because people didn't know, that there were cheaper ways to do it. Modernism, while introduced, caused indignation and shock. Once introduced, it changed building technologies for ever. Note, that I am talking about architecture, not urbanism. Modernist urbanism - in its radical form - is dead, at least in Europe. We came back to early 20th cent. modernism in new districts and classical architecture as in-fills in the old ones. Whatever will be built in Frankfurt's Old Town, it will probably follow the planning of middle-age city planners, who created land plots for patritians' homes. But will it be looking like old houses? Only if reconstructions will be ordered.
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Old April 18th, 2014, 02:13 PM   #73
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We are talking here about few houses in old style that are not too expensive for rich Frankfurt and Germany. I have money and will to build that few houses in old style and gift to the city museum.
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Old April 18th, 2014, 08:41 PM   #74
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We are talking here about few houses in old style that are not too expensive for rich Frankfurt and Germany. I have money and will to build that few houses in old style and gift to the city museum.
Off you go
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Old April 19th, 2014, 07:03 PM   #75
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I've just found this very interesting thread

My question is: what was demolished to make room for the reconstruction?
If I got it right, only the concrete building was demolished. Am I right?
Did they only demolish the building with the "three domes" here in this map?
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Fra...22435029b0c600

Thank you!
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Old April 19th, 2014, 11:02 PM   #76
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They tore down the old Technisches Rathaus (technical city hall), an eyesore from the postwar period, and a very small part of the Art Gallery in the douth(the long building with the shiny roof)
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Old April 19th, 2014, 11:26 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by erbse View Post
If modern architecture harmonizes and simply works, it's all well. If it clashes and disharmonizes, it sucks.

There are several examples among the contemporary designs for Frankfurt's old town that prove both is true.

Go check for yourself, just click the red dots and hover through: http://www.domroemer.de/virtueller-rundgang
It CLASHES and DISHARMONIZES. Does anyone know if a group of people who oppose the modern bullish.. building succeed in removing them for 100 per cent "old look architecture"?
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Old April 19th, 2014, 11:32 PM   #78
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What else? Modernists themselve tend to call it "critical regionalism",
but I can't see how it differs considerably from their own ideologies.
In any case, it's mediocre architecture. Reconstructions would be far better.




http://www.altstadt-retten.de/
Do the inhabitants of Frankfurt succeed in making the city only rebuilding old architecture or do we have to put up with the modern bullish.. in between? I bet if they build a neighborhood with old building and one with modern next to it, close to everyone would go to the first one.
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Old April 22nd, 2014, 02:30 AM   #79
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Modernism should be banned in once historic districts and only faithful reconstructions should be allowed.
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Old April 22nd, 2014, 07:01 PM   #80
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Precisely.
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