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Old January 21st, 2014, 05:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade View Post

Reliable?!?! How come? It's just gross estimates, using bizarre metro area definitions and it's expressed in fantasy money (PPP). For instance, Argentina GDP is US$ 450 billion and this trashy list gives a US$ 350 billion GDP for Buenos Aires.

My data come straight from the national statistical offices. It's not only reliable, but the only source existing. Every year since 2006 I collect this data for the US and Brazil (BEA and IBGE) and post on discussion forums to have some kind of peer review. This year I decided to expanded it to other countries as well.
please at least look at something before making ignorant comments, the brookings list is neither PPP, nor estimates
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Old January 21st, 2014, 05:53 PM   #22
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You accused me of making up stuff without any proof. Please, post something backing up this or just leave the thread. Show some respect.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 009 View Post
please at least look at something before making ignorant comments, the brookings list is neither PPP, nor estimates
So Buenos Aires GDP is 80% of Argentina's?
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Old January 21st, 2014, 06:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade View Post
You accused me of making up stuff without any proof. Please, post something backing up this or just leave the thread. Show some respect.

-------------------------------------




So Buenos Aires GDP is 80% of Argentina's?

Here is the data for Buenos Aires, if you go to the site, you can see the exact details of each sector, it seems pretty comprehensive
[IMG][IMG]http://i39.************/240y978.jpg[/IMG][/IMG]
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Old January 21st, 2014, 06:12 PM   #24
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Your point being? Buenos Aires GDP is not 80% of Argentina's.

In this thread I collected figures of all metro areas over 500,000 in both the US and Brazil. I went straight to the original source, in those cases, BEA and IBGE.

"Ready lists" like this one posted by you are really meaningless as we don't know where they've collected the data and what definitions they've used. Not to mention we already identiffied blatant mistakes as this one in Buenos Aires.
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Old January 21st, 2014, 06:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade View Post

Your point being? Buenos Aires GDP is not 80% of Argentina's.

In this thread I collected figures of all metro areas over 500,000 in both the US and Brazil. I went straight to the original source, in those cases, BEA and IBGE.

"Ready lists" like this one posted by you are really meaningless as we don't know where they've collected the data and what definitions they've used. Not to mention we already identiffied blatant mistakes as this one in Buenos Aires.

This list provides a detailed analysis on each metro area, along with a breakdown of each sector, it seems pretty legit
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Old January 21st, 2014, 06:18 PM   #26
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the sources are given as

Source: Brookings analysis of data from Oxford Economics, Moody’s Analytics, and the U.S. Census Bureau
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Old January 21st, 2014, 06:20 PM   #27
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Although, it doesn't state so anywhere, maybe this list is actually in PPP, which has become the standard, and is by far the most accurate way to determine the value of a city or country's gross domestic product

I certainly hope it is, otherwise it will be less reliable
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Old January 21st, 2014, 06:26 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langur View Post
22.7 million according to London's government, and that measure is most comparable to US CSAs. Anything giving a metro population of 15 million is using a marrower definition of the London metropolitan region than an US CSA.
What is a US CSA?

I went on Wikipedia to look this up and there seems to be no definition by which the London metro would be 22+ million, the figure itself not appearing either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_metropolitan_area instead the quoted figure is 13+ million, which is smaller than the 15 million I was remembering. Now I know Wikipedia is not always reliabe, but the official figure not even getting a mention is just bizzare. I am possibly missing something obvious, I'm not versed in these things.
(A larger figure is mentioned as 18+ million and described as London metro plus counties adjacent to the green belt.)
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Old January 21st, 2014, 06:35 PM   #29
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In 2012 the GDP(GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT)

of the Ile-de-France calculated by INSEE(NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR STATISTICS AND ECONOMIC STUDIES)

was 811,8 billion dollars.

So the Paris region is the most important European region by its GDP(GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT).

wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%8Ele-de-France

Economically, Île-de-France is the world's fourth-largest and Europe's wealthiest and largest regional economy:
in 2011, its total GDP as calculated by INSEE was €607 billion (US$845 billion at market exchange rates).
and if it were a country, it would rank as the seventeenth-largest economy in the world,
larger than the Turkish and Dutch economies and almost as large as Indonesia's.
Île-de-France is also the world's second most important location for Fortune Global 500 companies' headquarters (after the Kantō region).

1.tokyo
2.new york city
3.????? seoul or los angeles
4.paris
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Old January 21st, 2014, 06:55 PM   #30
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what is BEA and IBGE
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Old January 21st, 2014, 07:02 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekema View Post
what is BEA and IBGE
The only institutions in the world that collect GDP data for the US (BEA) and Brazil (IBGE). I went straight to the original source to elaborate my list.

Pick up obscure "ready lists" would be easier and certainly not thread-worthing.
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Old January 21st, 2014, 07:36 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade View Post
The only institutions in the world that collect GDP data for the US (BEA) and Brazil (IBGE). I went straight to the original source to elaborate my list.

Pick up obscure "ready lists" would be easier and certainly not thread-worthing.

You certainly didn't use official sources for Mexico City, I just checked the statistics
and they are nowhere near your unreliable ones

[IMG]http://i42.************/zof6g1.jpg[/IMG]

btw the source is El Instituto Nacional de Estadística y Geografía (INEGI)
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Old January 21st, 2014, 08:12 PM   #33
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Wrong.

As 2011, Mexico GDP was 12.422057 trillion pesos (INEGI) worthing US$ 1.153958 trillion (IMF).

Mexico City (DF + State of Mexico) posted 3.251118 trillion pesos (INEGI) worthing US$ 301.9 billion.

For Monterrey (Nueva León), 908.844 billion pesos worthing US$ 84.4 billion
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Old January 21st, 2014, 08:40 PM   #34
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Few toughts on my list. I decided to sort the areas by population to make comparisons easier:


500,000 - 650,000

---------------------- GDP 2011 (US$) -- Pop. 2011

Des Moines ------------------ 40.691.000.000 -- 580.255

Madison --------------------- 36.526.000.000 -- 576.467

Portland -------------------- 29.713.000.000 -- 623.205

Wichita --------------------- 27.363.000.000 -- 625.526

Boise City ------------------ 27.203.000.000 -- 627.664


Campos dos Goytcazes ----- 26.806.000.000 -- 592.793

Huntsville ------------------ 26.064.000.000 -- 579.550

Jackson --------------------- 24.666.000.000 -- 545.394

South Bend ------------------ 21.893.000.000 -- 517.629

Cape Coral-Ft. Myers -------- 20.284.000.000 -- 631.330

Lancaster -------------------- 20.188.000.000 -- 523.594

Augusta ---------------------- 19.947.000.000 -- 561.858

Scranton-Wilkes ------------- 19.832.000.000 -- 563.223

Palm Bay-Melbourne --------- 18.519.000.000 -- 543.566

Youngstown ------------------ 17.101.000.000 -- 562.739

Lakeland ---------------------- 16.810.000.000 -- 609.492

Johnson City-Kingsport ------ 16.615.000.000 -- 509.611

Provo ------------------------- 16.228.000.000 -- 540.834

Port St.Lucie-Vero Beach --- 15.240.000.000 -- 566.768

Modesto --------------------- 15.618.000.000 -- 518.522


Itajaí-B.Camboriú ----------- 15.333.000.000 -- 583.695

Pelotas-Rio Grande ----------- 8.764.000.000 -- 603.535

Bauru ------------------------- 8.402.000.000 -- 565.145

Ipatinga ---------------------- 6.899.000.000 -- 559.711

Criciúma ---------------------- 6.667.000.000 -- 506.853

Cascavel-Toledo -------------- 6.662.000.000 -- 519.250

Macapá ----------------------- 4.273.000.000 -- 531.672

Ilhéus-Itabuna ---------------- 3.656.000.000 -- 527.982

Petrolina-Juazeiro ------------ 3.636.000.000 -- 544.605

Juazeiro do Norte-Crato ------ 2.810.000.000 -- 628.131




--- Des Moines has an huge GDP per capita (over US$ 70,000). I guess it's do some insurance companies based plus the agribusiness. Very impressive;

--- Madison, very high GDP per capita as well. Not surprising though.

--- Campos dos Goytcazes (northeastern Rio de Janeiro) is one of the poorest regions on Southeast Brazil. As Brazilian oil production is all centered in the área, GDP is inflated (US$ 45,000 per capita), specially as 2011 when there was this huge surge on oil prices;

--- Youngstown, maybe the most devastated area in the Rust Belt with quite decente numbers, above US$ 30,000. Hope shale gas help them out;

--- Areas in Florida and central California posting very low GDP per capita, half of national average;

--- Itajaí-B.Camboriú (Santa Catarina coast) with a GDP per capita similar to American areas such as Lakeland, Provo and Modesto. It's a wealthy area, but the port of Itajaí push the GDP up;

--- On the bottom, we can see clearly the gap between Central-South and North-Northeast Brazil. Cities like Bauru (São Paulo state, university, services, hospitals, retail) and Cascavel (Paraná state, agribusiness, services, retail), with nothing inflating their GDP, post much higher numbers than Juazeiro do Norte (Ceará state).
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 01:16 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade View Post

Your point being? Buenos Aires GDP is not 80% of Argentina's.

In this thread I collected figures of all metro areas over 500,000 in both the US and Brazil. I went straight to the original source, in those cases, BEA and IBGE.

"Ready lists" like this one posted by you are really meaningless as we don't know where they've collected the data and what definitions they've used. Not to mention we already identiffied blatant mistakes as this one in Buenos Aires.
Argentina's GDP (PPP) is around US$ 770 billion, so it seems like a pretty legitimate number to me. Also PPP is not "magic money", clearly you don't really understand economics. It is a way of taking into account that prices for goods and services are not the same in different countries. A $10 haircut in US will cost $1 in India, but it is still the same haircut. That is why PPP is considered a more reliable measure for comparing living standards and consumption in different countries.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 01:22 AM   #36
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Really? Does Argentina gets real US$ or fantasy ones for its multibillion soybeans exports? When they have to import stuff, people accept fantasy money? Just find an Argentina that except to give 1 dollar for 2 pesos and then come back to me.

BTW, who conducts those PPP calculations? What products do they include? How and when data was collected? As far I know, prices change even in the same street and you're pretending there are an uniform PPP for an entire country?

And it seems you don't understand economics as you're bringing standards of living to this discussion. GDP measure PRODUCTION.

P.S. It's really NOT the same haircut. That's why the prices are so different. An American can pay US$ 10 for a haircut. An Indian can't. That's why the US is an wealthy country and India is poor.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 03:44 AM   #37
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Here are japan's metro areas in 2010 (the latest year the government has, they will release 2011 data this year; using average exchange rate for the past 6 months):

1. Tokyo Metropolitan Area: ¥160.01 trillion or around $1.6 trillion. This is around $45,700 per capita.
2. Osaka Metropolitan Area: ¥71.16 or 712 billion. If you remove Wakayama it comes to $677 billion.
3. Nagoya Metropolitan Area: ¥38.74 trillion or $387 billion, around $41,207. If you remove Gifu from the urban employment area it's ¥31.64 trillion or $316 billion, around $42,702 per capita.
4. Fukuoka-Kitakyushu Metropolitan area: ¥20.91 trillion or $209 billion, around $35,304. If you remove Saga from the urban employment area it's ¥18.04 trillion or $180 billion around $35,433 per capita.

I'm not entirely sure how to compare with other world metros but Japanese metropolitan areas are quite dense with extensive train networks so there is an extreme level of commuting even in far out areas, however simply using the more conservative figures a simple list would be

1. Tokyo $1.6 trillion
2. Osaka $677 billion
3. Nagoya $316 billion
4. Fukuoka $180 billion

P.S. It's a shame how late the cabinet office releases these statistics, Japan had relatively high GDP growth in 2012 and 2013 but the "new" figures that will be released this year will be for 2011 which was the year the tsunami hit so it will actually show all these figures go down, despite the reality right now is that they should be higher in 2013. BTW while I used several sources (all from the government) most of it is just from: http://www.esri.cao.go.jp/jp/sna/dat...df/gaiyou1.pdf
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 04:07 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade View Post
Really? Does Argentina gets real US$ or fantasy ones for its multibillion soybeans exports? When they have to import stuff, people accept fantasy money? Just find an Argentina that except to give 1 dollar for 2 pesos and then come back to me.

BTW, who conducts those PPP calculations? What products do they include? How and when data was collected? As far I know, prices change even in the same street and you're pretending there are an uniform PPP for an entire country?

And it seems you don't understand economics as you're bringing standards of living to this discussion. GDP measure PRODUCTION.

P.S. It's really NOT the same haircut. That's why the prices are so different. An American can pay US$ 10 for a haircut. An Indian can't. That's why the US is an wealthy country and India is poor.
Nominal GDP only measures that production which is internationally traded.
A huge portion of production in India is consumed domestically itself that will never show in nominal GDP.

India has a huge number of wealthy consumers and a much bigger middle-class, larger than the population of many countries.
However, the number of poor are much more and that lowers the average substantially. It's like comparing a country as big as Brazil and a tiny country like Luxembourg and making sweeping statements about that.
We cannot the ignore the huge number of wealthy people in Brazil just because tiny Luxembourg is among the wealthiest.

Many people can afford a $10 haircut in India but why would they when they can get excellent haircuts in $1 in a nice salon. So that's why a haircut will not cost $10.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 05:16 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicSA View Post
Here are the top 20 according to the Brookings Institute - seem a lot more reliable to me...:

1. Tokyo - $1520 billion
2. New York - $1210 billion
3. Los Angeles - $790 billion
4. Seoul - $774 billion
5. London - $731 billion
6. Paris - $669 billion
7. Osaka - $655 billion
8. Chicago - $525 billion
9. Moscow - $520 billion
10 Shanghai - $517 billion
11. Sao Paulo - $473 billion
12. Rhine - Ruhr - $465 billion
13. Beijing - $427 billion
14. Washington - $415 billion
15. Mexico City - $411 billion
16. Houston - $400 billion
17. Dallas - $368 billion
18. Nagoya - $367 billion
19. Hong Kong - $350 billion
20. Buenos Aires - $348 billion
Where is SF?
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 07:03 AM   #40
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Where is SF?
SF is 28th with GDP of $307 billion. However they count San Francisco and San Jose as two separate metros, I know a lot of people count them as one. If you put the two together, then you would get around $452 billion. Which would put SF in 13th place just ahead of Beijing.
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