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Old January 22nd, 2014, 10:37 AM   #41
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Tokyo's GDP is obscene. What a powerhouse.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 12:13 PM   #42
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A post of Brisavoine on SSP concerning some metro areas GPD:

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Note that we already have a thread about that.

Here is the link: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=206907

There are no 2011 data for most European metro areas, because Eurostat hasn't published 2011 regional GDPs yet, so Yuriandrade's figures for most European metro areas are essentially guesstimates. The figures below, on the other hand, are official figures published by Eurostat and other statistical offices.

All maps are at the same scale.

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Old January 22nd, 2014, 12:54 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukiyo View Post
Here are japan's metro areas in 2010 (the latest year the government has, they will release 2011 data this year; using average exchange rate for the past 6 months):

1. Tokyo Metropolitan Area: ¥160.01 trillion or around $1.6 trillion. This is around $45,700 per capita.
2. Osaka Metropolitan Area: ¥77.17 trillion or $771 billion, if you remove Shiga from the urban employment area it's ¥71.16 or 712 billion. If you use the strictest definition removing Wakayama and Nara from the metropolitan area it comes out to ¥64.10 or $641 billion. Around $37,700 per capita
3. Nagoya Metropolitan Area: ¥38.74 trillion or $387 billion, around $41,207. If you remove Gifu from the urban employment area it's ¥31.64 trillion or $316 billion, around $42,702 per capita.
4. Fukuoka-Kitakyushu Metropolitan area: ¥20.91 trillion or $209 billion, around $35,304. If you remove Saga from the urban employment area it's ¥18.04 trillion or $180 billion around $35,433 per capita.

I'm not entirely sure how to compare with other world metros but Japanese metropolitan areas are quite dense with extensive train networks so there is an extreme level of commuting even in far out areas, however simply using the more conservative figures a simple list would be

1. Tokyo $1.6 trillion
2. Osaka $641 billion
3. Nagoya $316 billion
4. Fukuoka $180 billion

P.S. It's a shame how late the cabinet office releases these statistics, Japan had relatively high GDP growth in 2012 and 2013 but the "new" figures that will be released this year will be for 2011 which was the year the tsunami hit so it will actually show all these figures go down, despite the reality right now is that they should be higher in 2013. BTW while I used several sources (all from the government) most of it is just from: http://www.esri.cao.go.jp/jp/sna/dat...df/gaiyou1.pdf
Ukiyo, what's exactly the population of those areas?
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 12:56 PM   #44
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Keeping with the comments:

650,000 - 800,000

-------------------- GDP 2011 (US$) -- Pop. 2011

Harrisburg ------------------ 32.606.000.000 -- 687.222

Columbia -------------------- 32.203.000.000 -- 777.116


Matsuyama ----------------- 31.800.000.000 -- 720.000

Charleston ------------------ 28.902.000.000 -- 682.121

Toledo ---------------------- 28.037.000.000 -- 650.266

Syracuse -------------------- 27.404.000.000 -- 662.553

Colorado Springs ------------- 26.855.000.000 -- 660.319

Chattanooga ---------------- 25.233.000.000 -- 650.206

Springfield ------------------- 23.360.000.000 -- 693.204

Stockton -------------------- 19.795.000.000 -- 696.214

McAllen --------------------- 15.379.000.000 -- 797.810


Uberlândia ------------------ 12.813.000.000 -- 728.557

Blumenau ------------------- 12.517.000.000 -- 687.342

Araraquara-São Carlos ------ 11.860.000.000 -- 710.350

São José do Rio Preto ------- 10.452.000.000 -- 779.906

Maringá ---------------------- 8.874.000.000 -- 731.654

Juiz de Fora ------------------ 6.650.000.000 -- 658.605

Arapiraca -------------------- 2.702.000.000 -- 702.274



Toledo on US$ 43,000 GDP per capita. Quite high for a Rust Belt area;

McAllen has the lowest GDP per capita amongst the US areas: US$ 19,300. Lower than many Brazilian areas;

Blumenau (Santa Catarina state) is the main centre of German Brazil. Largest Oktoberfest in the world after München, has a very strong industry and the lowest number of people living in the poverty (only 6% against 32% national-wise). GDP per capita of US$ 18,200;

Maringá (northern Paraná state) is one of the wealthiest Brazilian areas (agribusiness, services, retail, university), with only 12% of households under the poverty line (32% in Brazil as a whole) but as it doesn't count with heavy industry, the GDP per capita is flattened;

São José do Rio Preto (northern São Paulo state) is also one of the wealthiest Brazilian areas, but as Maringá, the GDP is flattened;

Arapiraca (Alagoas state) has the lowest GDP per capita of the list (US$ 3,800).

Last edited by Yuri S Andrade; January 28th, 2014 at 05:39 AM.
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Old January 22nd, 2014, 08:30 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicSA View Post
SF is 28th with GDP of $307 billion. However they count San Francisco and San Jose as two separate metros, I know a lot of people count them as one. If you put the two together, then you would get around $452 billion. Which would put SF in 13th place just ahead of Beijing.
And if you include the entire SF Bay Area (the SF-SJ-Oakland CSA/combined statistical area), which technically consists of 7 different MSAs/metro areas (which is ridiculous to anyone familiar with the area, but census methodology doesn't work well with the Bay Area's geographically constrained and polycentric layout), then SF would come out just ahead of Chicago and Moscow.

The CSA measurement includes the SF-Oakland MSA, the SJ MSA, Vallejo MSA, Napa MSA, Santa Rosa MSA, and also includes the Santa Cruz and Stockton MSAs. Most don't consider those last two to be part of the Bay Area, but the CSA measurement is definitely closer to representing SF's true metro area than the smaller MSA measurement is.
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Old January 23rd, 2014, 10:18 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade View Post
Ukiyo, what's exactly the population of those areas?
For my 2nd list (conservative one) it would be like this.

1. Tokyo $1.6 trillion ~35.59 million people
2. Osaka $677 billion ~18.47 million people
3. Nagoya $316 billion ~9.4 / 7.4 million people
4. Fukuoka $180 billion ~5.08 million people.

P.S. I went ahead and added Nara to Osaka since after reading some more I found it pretty unjustifiable to not include it considering Nara has among the highest commuting rates in the nation (to Osaka). *Nara is also the poorest prefecture in Japan since there is basically nothing there other than residential and everybody commutes.
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Last edited by ukiyo; January 26th, 2014 at 06:29 AM.
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Old January 24th, 2014, 10:55 PM   #47
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Ukiyo, could you give us a more detailed number of Tokyo's GDP? It's "too round" to be post on the first page.

Other thing: you're considering the five prefectures for Tokyo metro area, right?
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Old January 26th, 2014, 05:46 AM   #48
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No, the Tokyo metropolis and 3 prefectures (4 "prefectures"). That definition is almost identical to the urban employment area and easiest to calculate (it's also the most common definition in Japan, even though it misses many suburbs that for example american MSA and especially CSA would count).

For rounding I guess you mean you want the most precise numbers? Really the most precise you can get from the jp gov's cabinet office is just to add one zero to the figure
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukiyo View Post
1. Tokyo Metropolitan Area: ¥160.01 trillion or around $1.6 trillion.
so ¥160.010 trillion. BTW maybe it makes more sense to just use the exchange rate in 2010 (so the nominal) since that is when the data is from (I just noticed it doesn't make sense to use the current exchange rate since that reflects the current economy but we do not have the current GDP figures)? According to the US IRS the average exchange rate in 2010 was $1=¥91.342 (the average for 2013 was 101) so all the figures are like this

1. Tokyo $1.752 trillion $49,222 per capita
2. Osaka $741.171 billion $40,128 per capita
3. Nagoya $424.120 billion $44,786 per capita / $346.390 billion $46,809 per capita
4. Fukuoka $197.521 billion $38,882 per capita

I added the larger figure for Nagoya since I think its justifiable (equivalent to CSA) if you want to use it.
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Last edited by ukiyo; January 26th, 2014 at 06:30 AM.
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Old January 26th, 2014, 01:00 PM   #49
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I would rather have a "five prefecture" for Tokyo. Could you calculate for us, Ukiyo? BTW, what's Japan's GDP in that year?
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Old January 26th, 2014, 05:52 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri S Andrade View Post
I would rather have a "five prefecture" for Tokyo. Could you calculate for us, Ukiyo? BTW, what's Japan's GDP in that year?
5 prefecture? You mean you want to add Yamanashi? Its tiny and not at all part of Tokyo.
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Old January 26th, 2014, 06:43 PM   #51
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No, Ibaraki. Checking on GE, Tokyo sprawls all over the southern part of it.
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Old January 26th, 2014, 06:52 PM   #52
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Japan's GDP in 2010 was about $5.04 trillion. Hm Ibaraki? I would think there's a bigger case to be made for Gunma (though both Gunma and Ibaraki have some Tokyo "suburbs"). Maebashi "metropolitan area" shares many commuters in the south with Tokyo so it would be more similar to a US CSA than Ibaraki.

Anyway with Ibaraki the Metro GDP would be ¥171.198 trillion which is $1.874 trillion and 38.55 million people.

BTW Tokyo's GDP (not counting Ibaraki) is around 34% of Japan's GDP with around 29% of Japan's population.
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Last edited by ukiyo; January 26th, 2014 at 07:01 PM.
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Old January 26th, 2014, 07:02 PM   #53
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OK, I'll convert this US$ 5.04 trillion of 2010 into US$ 5.867 trillion of 2011 to make Japanese areas comparable to the others on the first page.

Yes, you're right. Gunma got more suburbs than Ibaraki. So how about a 6 prefecture definition? Kanto minus Tochigi. Could you post the numbers for us, Ukiyo?
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Old January 26th, 2014, 07:17 PM   #54
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Sure but I guess you should make a note about the definition you're using for Japan is the "Major Metropolitan Area" (kind of like Japan's CSA) and not the "Metropolitan Area" (similar to MSA). There are definitions behind this:
Quote:
The Statistics Bureau of Japan (SBJ) defines a metropolitan area as one or more central cities and its associated outlying municipalities. To qualify as an outlying municipality, the municipality must have at least 1.5% of its resident population aged 15 and above commuting to school or work into one of the central cities. To qualify as a central city, a city must either be a designated city of any population or a non-designated city with a city proper population of at least 500,000. Metropolitan areas of designated cities are defined as "major metropolitan areas" (大都市圏) while those of non-designated cities are simply "metropolitan areas" (都市圏). If multiple central cities are close enough such that their outlying cities overlap, they are combined together and a single metropolitan area is defined rather than independently.
As a result both Tochigi and Yamanashi are included since for example Utsunomiya in Tochigi, like Maebashi in Gunma shares some southern suburbs with Tokyo (for example Oyama, Tochigi). Let me know what you think about the definition first and I can just do it for all the japanese metros.
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Old January 26th, 2014, 07:51 PM   #55
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Ukiyo, I'm fond of broader definitions. I'm an enthusiast of US CSAs, and as they've redefined them last year (Allentown MSA being captured by New York CSA, for instance), I try to make worldwide metro areas comparable, considering, of course, American ones are more sprawled and therefore necessarily bigger).

However, I found this 8 prefecture definition too wide, comparable to São Paulo's Macrometropolitan Area posted on the first page. On the other hand, the 4 prefecture is too strict. Can't we go with a middle term, the 6 prefecture definition? It seems to me most of Ibaraki and Gunma population lives in Tokyo's exurbs but the same is not true for Tochigi and Yamanashi.

About the other three Japanese metro areas, I trust you to leave them comparable to Tokyo's 6 prefectures.

P.S. Is it possible to add more metro areas or the fact of we're being using prefecture as the base would make others (Hiroshima, Sendai, etc.) too big?
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Old January 26th, 2014, 08:47 PM   #56
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Yes I can find them.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 08:06 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicSA View Post
Here are the top 20 according to the Brookings Institute - seem a lot more reliable to me...:

1. Tokyo - $1520 billion
2. New York - $1210 billion
3. Los Angeles - $790 billion
4. Seoul - $774 billion
5. London - $731 billion
6. Paris - $669 billion
7. Osaka - $655 billion
8. Chicago - $525 billion
9. Moscow - $520 billion
10 Shanghai - $517 billion
11. Sao Paulo - $473 billion
12. Rhine - Ruhr - $465 billion
13. Beijing - $427 billion
14. Washington - $415 billion
15. Mexico City - $411 billion
16. Houston - $400 billion
17. Dallas - $368 billion
18. Nagoya - $367 billion
19. Hong Kong - $350 billion
20. Buenos Aires - $348 billion
Quote:
Originally Posted by 009 View Post
yes, it certainly is much more reliable, most of his statistics appear completely made up; or pulled from random sources and dates. I'll stick with one list from a reputable organization that provides equal statistics for all
Quote:
Originally Posted by 009 View Post
You certainly didn't use official sources for Mexico City, I just checked the statistics
and they are nowhere near your unreliable ones

[IMG]Http://i42.************/zof6g1.jpg[/IMG]

btw the source is El Instituto Nacional de Estadística y Geografía (INEGI)
agree, I dont know where is that guy taking his data, but as for Mexico, only the INEGI is able to release the information. Anyone giving you different sources is surely biased.

and without taking in consideration the devaluation of the Real, because those data from 2010 are pretty obsolete in any case.


Https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Ciudades_por_PIB
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Last edited by si7ete; January 27th, 2014 at 08:38 AM.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 08:48 AM   #58
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Japan Metropolitan Areas 2010 (most recent data released)

1. Tokyo: $1.807 trillion pop 36.92 million / (+Gunma/Ibaraki) $1.955 trillion pop 40.56 million
2. Osaka: $774.43 billion pop 19.34 million
3. Nagoya: $410.088 billion pop 9.1 million
4. Fukuoka: $213.987 billion 5.52 million
5. Shizuoka-Hamamatsu: $126.001 2.74 million
6. Sapporo: $92.024 billion 2.3 million
7. Sendai: $88.076 billion 2.33 million
8. Hiroshima: $87.560 2.1 million
9. Okayama: $67.29 billion 1.65 million
10. Niigata: $57.479 billion 1.42 million
11. Kumamoto: $50.522 billion 1.47 million
12*. Utsunomiya: $47.015 billion 1.09 million
13. Kagoshima: $41.139 billion 1.15 million
14. Matsuyama: $27.291 billion .72 million

*All metropolitan areas correspond to the definition of metropolitan areas by the Statistics Bureau of Japan except for the 2nd figure for Tokyo.
*Utsunomiya should not be counted if you're using the 2nd figure for Tokyo.

http://www.pref.hokkaido.lg.jp/kz/su...ousagaiyou.pdf
http://www.stat.go.jp/data/chiri/map...i/pdf/2010.pdf
http://www.stat.go.jp/data/kokusei/2.../word7.htm#a05
http://www.esri.cao.go.jp/jp/sna/dat...df/gaiyou1.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/Inter...Exchange-Rates
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Last edited by ukiyo; January 27th, 2014 at 09:22 AM.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 04:16 PM   #59
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You are the most kind, Ukiyo! I'll convert the 2010 data into 2011 and post on the first page. Thank you!


Quote:
Originally Posted by si7ete View Post
agree, I dont know where is that guy taking his data, but as for Mexico, only the INEGI is able to release the information. Anyone giving you different sources is surely biased.

and without taking in consideration the devaluation of the Real, because those data from 2010 are pretty obsolete in any case.
Data in my list for Mexico City and Monterrey was provided by INEGI.

On the first page of the thread, I typed 2011. As soon as 2012 figures will be released, I post them here (I actually did for US). So you don't need to worry about.
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Old January 27th, 2014, 09:14 PM   #60
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Japanese added:

-------------------- GDP 2011 (US$) -- Pop. 2011

Tokyo ---------------- US$ 2.276 tri --- 40.6 mi

Osaka ---------------- US$ 901.5 bi --- 19.3 mi


Nagoya --------------- US$ 477.4 bi ---- 9.1 mi

Fukuoka -------------- US$ 249.1 bi ---- 5.5 mi

Shizuoka -------------- US$ 146.7 bi ---- 2.7 mi

Sapporo --------------- US$ 107.1 bi ---- 2.3 mi

Sendai ----------------- US$ 102.5 bi ---- 2.3 mi

Hiroshima ------------- US$ 101.9 bi ---- 2.1 mi

Okayama --------------- US$ 78.3 bi ---- 1.6 mi

Niigata ------------------ US$ 66.9 bi ---- 1.4 mi

Kumamoto -------------- US$ 58.8 bi ---- 1.5 mi

Kagoshima -------------- US$ 47.9 bi ---- 1.1 mi

Matsuyama ------------- US$ 31.8 bi ---- 0.7 mi


Once more, thanks Ukiyo!
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