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Old January 5th, 2017, 03:31 PM   #221
x37
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https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/gov...tional-airport

Governor Cuomo Presents Vision Plan to Transform JFK Airport to Meet the Needs of the 21st Century Economy

https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/go...VisionPlan.pdf
https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/go...formingJFK.pdf

https://youtu.be/XpqAHf-YdKY
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Old January 5th, 2017, 09:29 PM   #222
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So looks like:

-Terminals 4 and 5 to remain basically as is.
-Terminals 1 and 2 to be demolished, redeveloped, and connected to terminal 4
-Terminal 7 to be demolished and redeveloped, and connected to terminal 8.
-Terminal 8 to get some re-configuring and additions.
-Giant parking structure to be built in what is now a spider web of airport access roads.
-Access roads redeveloped into one large ring around the new parking structure.

Still far from perfect. Would love to see JFK as a giant single modern terminal a la Hong Kong or Beijing. But this will still be a vast improvement over what's there now.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 06:12 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderGrad View Post
this will still be a vast improvement over what's there now.
Terminals 4 and 5 are up to modern standards. It's not quite clear to me what problem this is solving.

The most critical issues at JFK are

- accessibility, with the perennially clogged Van Wyck and long transit times. A one seat train ride to Manhattan would do a lot to improve both.

- delays. A new runway could solve that, though reconfiguring of the NYC metro airspace and nextgen may reduce the urgency a bit.

A new terminal is nice. But not if it detracts attention or funding from the main issues.

Last edited by WillBuild; January 6th, 2017 at 06:19 PM.
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Old January 6th, 2017, 06:20 PM   #224
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Quote:
A one seat train ride to Manhattan would do a lot to improve both.
I stand corrected. That was mentioned as part of this plan, if not yet in concrete terms.
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Old January 7th, 2017, 01:52 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillBuild View Post
Terminals 4 and 5 are up to modern standards. It's not quite clear to me what problem this is solving.

The most critical issues at JFK are

- accessibility, with the perennially clogged Van Wyck and long transit times. A one seat train ride to Manhattan would do a lot to improve both.

- delays. A new runway could solve that, though reconfiguring of the NYC metro airspace and nextgen may reduce the urgency a bit.

A new terminal is nice. But not if it detracts attention or funding from the main issues.
On the subject of runways, how far out is the flight path for the two east-west runways for approaches from the west? Are planes allowed to fly over Manhattan? In a "perfect world", would these runways have a different orientation? Or would it be a big issue airspace-wise to add 2 more runways in the same orientation?
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Old January 7th, 2017, 04:19 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderGrad View Post
On the subject of runways, how far out is the flight path for the two east-west runways for approaches from the west? Are planes allowed to fly over Manhattan? In a "perfect world", would these runways have a different orientation? Or would it be a big issue airspace-wise to add 2 more runways in the same orientation?
It's snowing out. If you want to stay in and really dig in to the details, this extremely detailed 2011 report discusses various growth estimates and reconfiguration variants for the entire metro airspace.

Ranging from the impact of NextGen to airspace realignment, access and airport infrastructure expansion (incl. adding runways) and even looking into a whole new airport (spoiler: wholly infeasible).

Upgrading to World Class,
The future of the New York Region's Airports

by the Regional Plan Association

The New York Times summarized it when it came out.

Specific to JFK, it lays out 7 new runway variants. But the exact preferred choice depends on the overall airspace alignment, as some would overlap with LGA routes (another reason why closing LGA might have done more good than the current renewal plans). A few screenshots:


on Flickr, original at RPA 2011.


on Flickr, original at RPA 2011


on Flickr, original at RPA 2011
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Last edited by WillBuild; January 7th, 2017 at 04:34 PM.
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Old January 9th, 2017, 08:31 AM   #227
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Thanks for all that! Lots of great info.

Even with Next-Gen ATC, looks like converting LGA and JFK to the primarily 4-22 configuration for their runways is the best bet for a built in efficiency for the New York airspace. Next-Gen is plodding along, but has a ways to go before its ready. The nice part about the latest plan for JFK is it doesn't preclude this arrangement:

JFK New Runways by mahhockey, on Flickr
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Old January 10th, 2017, 09:36 PM   #228
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Digging further into New York area airport redevelopment, looks like Newark is doing a complete rebuild of Terminal A:

https://www.panynj.gov/airports/ewr-redevelopment/


I'm guessing this is old news, but quick question that I couldn't find the answer to: Looks to be completely disconnected from the original loop, but the original terminal A entry building is to remain? How are they going to be using that building after they remove the gates?
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Old January 11th, 2017, 03:38 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderGrad View Post
Digging further into New York area airport redevelopment, looks like Newark is doing a complete rebuild of Terminal A:

https://www.panynj.gov/airports/ewr-redevelopment/


I'm guessing this is old news, but quick question that I couldn't find the answer to: Looks to be completely disconnected from the original loop, but the original terminal A entry building is to remain? How are they going to be using that building after they remove the gates?
Work will probably be done in phases in order to minimally disrupt operations during construction.
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Old January 13th, 2017, 09:32 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderGrad View Post
So looks like:

-Terminals 4 and 5 to remain basically as is.
-Terminals 1 and 2 to be demolished, redeveloped, and connected to terminal 4
-Terminal 7 to be demolished and redeveloped, and connected to terminal 8.
-Terminal 8 to get some re-configuring and additions.
-Giant parking structure to be built in what is now a spider web of airport access roads.
-Access roads redeveloped into one large ring around the new parking structure.
This new vision plan for JFK Idlewild Airport raises the following concerns:

1. Terminals 1 and 2 are replaced by just one larger terminal, even though Terminal 1 is not very old because it opened in 1998.
2. Terminal 8 opened in 2008. The transformation will see its accompanying satellite terminal (Concourse C) demolished and replaced with some new concourses that are attached to the main terminal building and Concourse B. Plus, the main terminal still has not been built-out.
3. I suppose the idea for a reconfiguration of JFK Airport's passenger terminals came about because huge voids were left after the demolition of Terminal 3 and 6, yet Terminals 2 and 7 remained standing.
4. The runway reconfiguration means that JFK Airport's vast cargo area will be shrunk considerably.
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Old February 25th, 2017, 09:09 AM   #231
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4 out of 5 Boroughs by John C., on Flickr
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Old March 1st, 2017, 04:42 AM   #232
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Landing pattern @ JFK placing planes in close proximity to the NYC Subway:
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