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Old June 9th, 2005, 08:31 PM   #81
Guerrero
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We are only out 9 grand as we bought after the first remediation bill had been paid. Of course because we bought with full knowledge we don't get HPO loans. Still it was worth it for us. Now that it is finished there has been a big rush on selling by a lot of people. I think 7 units have either already sold or are on the market.

Personally I think the Victoria market is about to do a little leveling off. I am happy where I am and am not planning on going anywhere.

Oh a side note on parking, someone in my building is trying to get our block turned to residential. A little confused as all of our places come with a parking spot don't know who they would be for. I am sure the city will turn that down.
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Old June 16th, 2005, 07:06 PM   #82
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I walked past the Corazon and they are up the 7th floor already while the Wave on Yates Street isn't even above ground. They actually started excavation for the Wave before the Corazon so I wonder what is taking so long. Is the ground under the Wave more unstable? Anybody know?
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Old June 17th, 2005, 03:08 AM   #83
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Yeah, the foundation for The Wave requires more work due to the soil (Corazon is all rock, easy to work with, while the Wave is on unstable soil). Sometimes it takes four months to have a building rise above ground so this isn't out of the ordinary.
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Old June 21st, 2005, 10:23 PM   #84
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So Victoria is going to get Rapid Bus it looks like, rather LRT. Also I noted in the Victoria Transit Commision minutes that it actually won't implemented for 5 years plus. You would think they would want it completed in time for 2010 in Vancouver so they could take advantage of the increased tourism. With the already congested Douglas Street Corridor it will be interesting to see what they come up with to keep the busses out of traffic and moving quickly other than a lot fewer stops.

Here is the link to the lengthy report:

http://www.bctransit.com/regions/vic...mtg-ri-234.pdf

So what are everyones thoughts?
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Old June 22nd, 2005, 07:31 AM   #85
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Nice, well sounds like they're moving a few steps forward.

Realistically speaking, LRT will not be feasible until 2020-2030. At current there isn't enough density to sustain the stations except at the downtown station(s) and the terminus (Langford). Unless Saanich starts pushing towards densification along the LRT corridor the economic case just won't be there.

Those BRT buses in the report sure look cool, though. And the transit right of way along the middle of Douglas is very European and would probably be one of the first in Canada (I think Richmond might have something like that in place). Seeing those buses shoot down the middle of Douglas would be something!
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 06:04 AM   #86
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I think that LRT could work, but like you say some densification would help. The problem is the capital costs turn off governments, I'm not a big fan of BRT, but I guess it's better than nothing. The thing is with only one main main corridor to the Western Communities, and one to the Penninsula, Victoria has traffic volumes comparible to a much larger city on those routes, and it would be much easier to implement LRT in this city than in many other larger cities. I don't think implementing BRT will neccessarily bring LRT around any quicker, and may actually hinder it's introduction. The LRT was planned, and should be constructed before it gets too expensive, and too many people get too used to the galloping goose the way it is now.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 07:45 AM   #87
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The cost of constructing LRT...definitely going to be a problem in 2020. Good point Ren. It'll cost, what, $700m today for a ~20km track along the Goose with expensive stations and expensive trains. I can only imagine it'll be above a billion by 2020. Ouch.

I would prefer trolleys running on electricity to be introduced for the major corridors as opposed to BRT (in Europe trolleys operate in the middle of major thoroughways). Operation would be cheaper, capacity would be larger, and they would be much more popular over buses.

Frequent two-car trolley service would be great on these routes:
(purple) north on Douglas, east on Saanich, north on the Pat Bay (up to Royal Oak for now, further as required); (red) north Douglas, east on Hillside and north on Shelbourne up to Mackenzie, east to UVic and around ring road; (green) west on Pandora through Esquimalt rd, east on Admirals and west on Craigflower to Colwood Corners; (blue) east on Fort, north Richmond, connect to Hillside tracks. The great thing about trolleys is they can run in their own right of way or along regular paved lanes. The costs for laying tracks would be recovered through less buses serving those corridors and much lower energy costs, not to mention an increased transit popularity.



These routes would serve highly populated, already well-utilized routes. I don't understand why transit can't entertain something like this but instead is opting for running BRT (eventually LRT) along low-density corridors.

What do you guys think?
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 08:20 AM   #88
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I completely agree with you Koz.

They say ridership has increased dreatically in the last 5 years. Guess what the growth wasn't from the Western Comunities it was from Camosun and UVic. I know they say that people will switch once something good is there, but a lot of people out there love their cars. The one out the ferries would be great though I might actually take the bus out there.

I know that there has been talk at the Victoria 2020 conferences regarding street cars on shorter urban routes and I think it is a great idea. Replace either the #4 or #14 bus to UVic and Camosun with Streetcars. There is already a dedicated ridership that is only going to increase and also the corridors are both dense enough.

As for BRT vs LRT perhaps with the election coming up they can actualy say theyhave a concrete plan and it isn't going to bankrupt us. It certainly plays to both sides of the fence.

Here is a bit of an article that appeared on www.LightRailNow.org that Ren will like.

Kenosha, Wisconsin Streetcar System:
Workable Light Rail Meets Small-Town Mobility and Urban Development Needs

"Affordable, workable light rail transit (LRT) in an American city of less than one million population? How about less than 100,000 population?

That seems to be precisely the case with the new light rail streetcar system in Kenosha, Wisconsin, a small city of about 90,000 population. Located along the shore of Lake Michigan, Kenosha lies a short distance north of the Illinois-Wisconsin border, and about 70 miles (113 km) northwest of Chicago. Since 2000, Kenosha Transit has operated a 1.7-mile (2.7-km) streetcar loop designed to connect the local Metra regional passenger rail ("commuter rail") station to downtown attractions, a transit center, and the new 64-acre Harborpark residential development situated on the Lake Michigan shore."

Short but we could start something similar.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 07:00 PM   #89
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I like the trolley idea the best, but it may be the most difficult to convince politicians, and the general public of. AFAIK the latest LRT cost estimate is more around the level of $400 million, but if we wait much longer that price will just skyrocket, as I think it'll be harder to utilize the Galloping Goose, and Lochside corridors.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 08:15 PM   #90
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exactly! LRT will only provide transit to those who already use transit, getting people out of their cars has always been and will continue to be a challenge. We have to stop this attitude of enticing the masses and instead focus on current users.

By running urban trolleys through heavily populated, well-utilized transit corridors we'll acheive just that.

Ren, good point about the political aspect. It will be absolute hell trying to iron out a plan and involving so many municipalities who will all demand one thing or another. Amalgamation, at least of the four core municipalities, is an absolute must for a solid approach to regional transit.
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 10:40 PM   #91
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Apart from those in Oak Bay I think the vast majority of people in Vic Esquimalt and Saanich would be for amalgamation. Of course the spokesmen for these regions are not exactly going to ever come out in favour of it because they will be basically voting themselves out of a job. I think what needs to be done is an old fashioned non-cityhall backed plebisite that can be given to the Provincial Government.

The economic sense in amalgamation is huge. Not only do you get rid of vast amounts of duplication but you also have a louder voice when you ask the province or the Feds for money. I don't know how many times I have heard that Victoria is a small city because it only has 75 000 people. Even the TC uses this number ALL the time. It is simply not true. Remove Victoria from the region and you lose all the surrounding communities too because they are one and the same.

Additional bonus no one will have to admit they live in Esquimalt
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Old June 23rd, 2005, 11:48 PM   #92
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Apparently, Don Roughly, a past city manager for Victoria, is considering running for council. He is pro-business, pro-development and most importantly pro-amalgamation. Should he turn his intentions into reality we might have what's needed to get the ball rolling. I can see this outspoken fellow being a Pam Madoff for all things productive.

I would hope Saanich would join Victoria initially (we'd have a voice of 180,000 to start), but like you said, Oak Bay will have its nose in the air unless the province gets in and mandates action. Let's not even get started with Esquimalt, they're still frothing from the police merger and attempted fire department merger.

Ren made a good point a while back regarding amalgamation in the other forum. Creating core (Vic, Esq, OB, Saan), western (Langfod, Col, VR, Met, Sooke, Highlands) and peninsula (C Saan, N Saan, Sidney) regions would be ideal as a starting point. Further amalgamation could proceed as required.

Most importantly, we'd no longer have a use for the bloated CRD. Not only do we have thirteen local governments, the CRD has swooped over all of them and takes tens of millions of dollars in taxes to essentially rebroadcast the issues of the entire region.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 02:00 AM   #93
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Well I will look forward to seeing what Don Roughly puts forward in his campaign. If he is as pro-development and amalgamation as ya say then he will have my vote. I know that when he was city manager he did a lot to streamline the approval process for developers. I think the only negative he has right now is his involvement in the last arena project. Of course that doesn't sway my vote because I was for that arena proposal. It would be good to have someone to balance off against Pam Madoff. Hope he is running for council and not mayor he won't have a chance against Lowe.

As for Esquimalt again I think it was the council that was against the deal with Victoria not the general population. Also I doubt that council will be coming back anyways as they are extremely unpopular due to budget overruns and rising property taxes.
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Old June 24th, 2005, 06:01 PM   #94
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You absolutely right, if Roughley runs against Lowe it'll simply split the right-wing vote and create nothing more than an obstacle. He'll be much better on council in opposition to Madoff. It's amazing that councilors in Victoria only need 7500 to walk away laughing. That's 10% of the populations vote. If pro-development councilors could somehow manage to attract 8000-8500 votes they'd be a shoo-in.

From this morning's TC:

Transportation policy is off the tracks

Times Colonist

Friday, June 24, 2005

B.C. Transit and the CRD have long histories of finding pro-bus transportation consultants to shoot down light rail to the Western Communities. Now they've found another one ("Rapid buses coming, B.C. Transit says," June 20).

Transit commission chairman Don Amos says there isn't the population density to support LRT. But a 1990 study showed a Western Communities tram line would carry more people per kilometre than light rail lines in Portland, Sacramento and San Diego. And of course the population on the West Shore (including Sooke) has grown considerably since then.

You can find an "expert" to tell you anything. People in greater Victoria need accurate information and real choices.

Louis Guilbault,

Victoria.
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Old June 30th, 2005, 01:12 AM   #95
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I went to the Open house on the transit changes(Rapid Bus) today. Not too interesting. Just a few maps and drawings of the proposed changes to Douglas Street. Downtown will look pretty much exactly the same. Once you pass the Bay building the new busses will enter a bus-way exactly like the one in Richmond this will continue at least as far as Town and country mall.

I was wondering how a bus will be able to cross two lanes of traffic to enter the lanes. Apparently the traffic light before will allow the bus in the right hand lane to go first and then will allow traffic to leave a few seconds later. The busses will only stop at Hillside, Mayfair and Saanich Road along Douglas street allowing the busses to most likely move a lot faster than traffic.

I asked one of the guys there about the cost estimate of 14 Million for full implementation and this amount does not include new vehicles so to start out this system will run with current busses. Also a lot of the costs to improvements outside Victoria are not included because they are expecting the province to include it in some of their infrastructure changes. Hmmm...
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Old June 30th, 2005, 01:51 AM   #96
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Nice, thanks for the rundown. Did you catch a hint of when they were expecting to implement these lanes?
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Old June 30th, 2005, 02:10 AM   #97
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Beginning of actual work on some parts of Douglas St. will be started by the end of this year. Some bus routes will altered so they stop less frquently along the corridor starting next spring. I think the completion of the bus ways is expected to be in 2007.
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Old July 10th, 2005, 06:31 AM   #98
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OK, hi folks....

I'm now fully barred from SSP.... can someone root around over there and find out what I did?

It was either the Chuck Cadman thread, or a very slight hint of a nipple on Paulina Porizkova....

Let me know!
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Old July 10th, 2005, 06:45 AM   #99
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I think it was the Miss World Canada thread because it sais the following...

*Image deleted by moderator due to unacceptable content*
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Old July 10th, 2005, 07:48 AM   #100
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It's a two week suspension.
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