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Old April 24th, 2010, 11:04 AM   #2341
rutvij
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhi.Shrek View Post

Good to see some creativity on a rather plain jane stainless Steel coach.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 11:27 AM   #2342
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Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1 View Post
well thats an ideal scenario.

Say you live in Surat (for example)

lets for assumptions say the only airline that goes to Mumbai from your airport is XYZ airways.

But they only operate at Navi Mumbai airport.

Now you are at Surat and have to goto South Africa which Jet airways operates from CSIA, So you chose the route

Surat---XYZ airlines to NMIA-----high speed link----Jet ariways to South Africa


As the Indian pop who uses the airports to travel locally or internationally you cant say for sure that people will just use the flights within the airport.

You are also assuming that other airports cover the same destinations. which i dont think will be the case. Say Mexico city will be covered by NMIA while not covered by CSIA

there are also other scenarios


say you find the cheapest way to fly from Surat to Mumbai is an airline which operates out of CSIA , then you find that the cheapest way to fly to NYC is an airline which operates out of NMIA. So you end up changing airports.


Yeah but the people shuttling between airports would be a LOT less than people shuttling between the city center and the airport.

Thousands of people fly out of Mumbai everyday, but very few people would be changing from NMIA to CSIA, so it would be pointless to make a high-speed metro express line just for the small number of people who would be shuttling between airports compared to the large number of people going from the city center to the airport.

Also, because Mumbai and Navi Mumbai such a big cities, most domestic airlines would fly to both airports. Look at NY JFK and LGA...very very very few people change between the 2 airports.

It doesn't make sense to spend millions of dollars building a high-speed metro express line for a small number of people who would change airports. Also, none of these people would be from Mumbai. It makes more sense to build a rail line from city center to the airport to serve the huge number of Mumbaikars who would be flying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1 View Post
say you find the cheapest way to fly from Surat to Mumbai is an airline which operates out of CSIA , then you find that the cheapest way to fly to NYC is an airline which operates out of NMIA. So you end up changing airports.
Most people who are rich enough to fly would just pay a little extra to fly into NMIA in this case. Also, costly high-speed rail tickets and the extra inconvenience would end up dissuading cheap people from using the rail line.

Last edited by niknak; April 24th, 2010 at 11:37 AM.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 12:10 PM   #2343
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Yeah but the people shuttling between airports would be a LOT less than people shuttling between the city center and the airport.
yeah but the entire point is time constraint. Clearly if you have to catch a connecting flight, time is the biggest issue.

Quote:
Thousands of people fly out of Mumbai everyday, but very few people would be changing from NMIA to CSIA, so it would be pointless to make a high-speed metro express line just for the small number of people who would be shuttling between airports compared to the large number of people going from the city center to the airport.
see point above. Plus i think it will be sizeable. By no means small as passenger number are set to explode in the next decade.

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Also, because Mumbai and Navi Mumbai such a big cities, most domestic airlines would fly to both airports. Look at NY JFK and LGA...very very very few people change between the 2 airports.
That will be the case for big cities like London and NYC or Dubai, Singapore.But other destinations in Africa, South america or even parts of Canada. Its also news to me that people dont take connecting flights. Many times you want to fly by a certain airline on a certain date and the aircraft is full. So your forced to take an airline from a different airport. Many routes are fully booked well in advance.

Quote:
It doesn't make sense to spend millions of dollars building a high-speed metro express line for a small number of people who would change airports. Also, none of these people would be from Mumbai. It makes more sense to build a rail line from city center to the airport to serve the huge number of Mumbaikars who would be flying.
well in that case dont you think its better to have a line for the western suburbs considering its the most populated part of Mumbai? also you can also have a few stops on the line between the two airports or even build a normal metroline there. not saying it has to be really express pace just somehting travelling at 70-80km per hour.

Quote:
Most people who are rich enough to fly would just pay a little extra to fly into NMIA in this case. Also, costly high-speed rail tickets and the extra inconvenience would end up dissuading cheap people from using the rail line.
you can save 1000s on your ticket. The prices between airline do vary a lot from Rs1000-Rs1500 domestic to Rs5000-Rs7000 international. In comparison spending a few hundred on a high speed link to find the airport which provides the cheapest solution makes economic sense to me. On top of which the days of only the rich flying are over. Middle class Indians today certainly are flying more in greater numbers. If a family of 4 is flying then clearly the even a Rs500 difference in the ticket prices adds up
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Old April 24th, 2010, 04:25 PM   #2344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niknak View Post
It doesn't make sense to connect 2 international airports with a metro express line. When NMIA opens, someone who flies into CSIA will connect within CSIA. Someone who flies into NMIA would connect within NMIA.

There is no need to have a Metro Express link to link the 2 airports because fliers will not be shuttling between the 2 airports.

Fliers will be shuttling from the dense residential areas (usually the city center) to the airport.
It definitely makes sense. As Ichi has already explained well, there are some other advantages. Since all flights to a particular city may not operate from a single airport, so the frequency of flights to a particular city gets divided, which means you have half options now if you choose any particular airport, which also means waiting more for connecting flights.

But if you do not want to wait much for your connecting flight, then you have an option of shuttling between the two airports and book the earlier flight instead of waiting for next flight at the same airport.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 06:25 PM   #2345
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No it does not make sense. There are soo many cities in the world which have a metro express line connecting the city center and the airport(Heathrow, Hong Kong, etc.). How many cities in the world have a metro express line connecting one airport with another?

Low cost airlines (there are around 6 of them) will be flying to both airports, so if 1 low-cost airline doesn't fly from say Surat to NMIA, another one surely will.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 06:33 PM   #2346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1 View Post
yeah but the entire point is time constraint. Clearly if you have to catch a connecting flight, time is the biggest issue.
If entire point is time constraints, then why would anyone want to leave the airport, wait for a train, take luggage onto the train, take luggage off the train, find the airport terminal, check baggage in, again go through security, etc.

People would just connect within the airport because of time constraints!



Quote:
Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1 View Post
That will be the case for big cities like London and NYC or Dubai, Singapore.But other destinations in Africa, South america or even parts of Canada. Its also news to me that people dont take connecting flights. Many times you want to fly by a certain airline on a certain date and the aircraft is full. So your forced to take an airline from a different airport. Many routes are fully booked well in advance.
People who connect within an airport vastly outnumber the people who connect between airports. No one has time for that. If someone wanted to fly to Africa, etc, they would just fly into the airport which has flights to South America. There are so many cheap airlines in India, I'm sure they could get a cheap flight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1 View Post
you can save 1000s on your ticket. The prices between airline do vary a lot from Rs1000-Rs1500 domestic to Rs5000-Rs7000 international. In comparison spending a few hundred on a high speed link to find the airport which provides the cheapest solution makes economic sense to me. On top of which the days of only the rich flying are over. Middle class Indians today certainly are flying more in greater numbers. If a family of 4 is flying then clearly the even a Rs500 difference in the ticket prices adds up
you are assuming that domestic low-cost airlines won't fly to both airports. It's a bad assumption because 1- there are a lot of big low cost airlines 2- Navi Mumbai and Mumbai are both big cities, so it would make sense for them to fly to both airports. 3- say if Indigo didn't fly from Surat-NMIA then maybe Spicejet or Go Air or Kingfisher Red or Jetlite would.

Plus why would we spend millions of dollars building a rail line just for outsiders connecting between airports? We should spend the millions on something to serve Mumbaikars.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 06:45 PM   #2347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
It definitely makes sense. As Ichi has already explained well, there are some other advantages. Since all flights to a particular city may not operate from a single airport, so the frequency of flights to a particular city gets divided, which means you have half options now if you choose any particular airport, which also means waiting more for connecting flights.

But if you do not want to wait much for your connecting flight, then you have an option of shuttling between the two airports and book the earlier flight instead of waiting for next flight at the same airport.
How many people do you think will move from Airport 1 to Airport 2- some 30 kms away ?
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Old April 24th, 2010, 06:45 PM   #2348
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well lets leave this discussion cause I think we are drifting off topic, ~I do have answers to your point, but dont want to continue in this thread
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Old April 24th, 2010, 06:47 PM   #2349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niknak View Post
If entire point is time constraints, then why would anyone want to leave the airport, wait for a train, take luggage onto the train, take luggage off the train, find the airport terminal, check baggage in, again go through security, etc.

People would just connect within the airport because of time constraints!


People who connect within an airport vastly outnumber the people who connect between airports. No one has time for that. If someone wanted to fly to Africa, etc, they would just fly into the airport which has flights to South America. There are so many cheap airlines in India, I'm sure they could get a cheap flight.




you are assuming that domestic low-cost airlines won't fly to both airports. It's a bad assumption because 1- there are a lot of big low cost airlines 2- Navi Mumbai and Mumbai are both big cities, so it would make sense for them to fly to both airports. 3- say if Indigo didn't fly from Surat-NMIA then maybe Spicejet or Go Air or Kingfisher Red or Jetlite would.

Plus why would we spend millions of dollars building a rail line just for outsiders connecting between airports? We should spend the millions on something to serve Mumbaikars.
+1. My thoughts exactly.
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Old April 24th, 2010, 07:58 PM   #2350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IchimaruGin1 View Post
well lets leave this discussion cause I think we are drifting off topic, ~I do have answers to your point, but dont want to continue in this thread
+1. I can answer the questions but that would continue derailing the thread. Maybe chaibar ??
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Old April 25th, 2010, 04:49 AM   #2351
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Lo, gayi bhains paani mein!

I think we can safely say say 2020 for Metro II now


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Originally Posted by sumant View Post

Citizens protest Metro work on Bandra road


Ashley D’Mello | TNN


Mumbai: Citizens’ groups in the suburbs are furious that the MMRDA is continuing with their works on Linking Road in Bandra (West) for the second phase of Metro rail even when the Bombay high court is likely to hear a PIL on the issue.
The groups want an alternative route to the elevated plan of Metro Phase II, which is being planned from Charkop to Bandra to Mankhurd. The residents demand that from Andheri to Bandra, the route should be underground.
In a letter to chief minister Ashok Chavan the citizens groups have asked how could theMMRDA start the work when the matter was subjudice.
Aftab Siddique from 33
Road, Khar ALM, whose petition seeking an alternatibe route for the Metro has been turned into a PIL by the Bombay high court last month, said, “The MMRDA did not think it necessary to listen to the pleas of citizens and moreover, it does not seem to be even accountable to the courts of the land.’’ He added that the route along Linking Road would also dislocate more than 1,000 slum families in the west of the Bandra station. Bandra councillor Rehbar Khan had even taken a petition to the chief minister, telling him about how the elevated route would affect the livelihood of the people in the area.
MMRDA officials said they were conducting initial soil tests. The contract for the route has already been awarded to a consortium led by Reliance Infrastructure.
The citizens’ groups now plan a meeting at the administrative and political level.

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Defau...Mode=HTML&GZ=T
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Old April 25th, 2010, 06:16 AM   #2352
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regardless of the debate re the probity of plastering reliance metro on the coaches, does anyone want to indulge in the semiotics of the logo.

if one were inclined one could think of the sw petal as bombay island, nw as the western burbs, ne as the eastern burbs and se as new bombay. then the lines through the petals become interesting.

maybe its just me and i have been staring at the monitor for too long.
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Old April 25th, 2010, 07:55 AM   #2353
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Originally Posted by jubin View Post

regardless of the debate re the probity of plastering reliance metro on the coaches, does anyone want to indulge in the semiotics of the logo.

if one were inclined one could think of the sw petal as bombay island, nw as the western burbs, ne as the eastern burbs and se as new bombay. then the lines through the petals become interesting.

maybe its just me and i have been staring at the monitor for too long.
What a "Beautiful mind "
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Old April 25th, 2010, 02:37 PM   #2354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sughosh View Post
Lo, gayi bhains paani mein!

I think we can safely say say 2020 for Metro II now
they will want to push it underground

nobody wants the inconvenience....

no doubt MMDRA are not exactly great at planning....
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Old April 25th, 2010, 09:39 PM   #2355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanware View Post
What a "Beautiful mind "
ha ha. thanks

i thought the lines on the logo could be thought of as the metro lines that reliance wants to build. which would be interesting.

fwiw, mumbaimetro1 does not have this on their website. no photos, nothing in the update section. it is really barren. at least the bwsl site had monthly updates.
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Old April 25th, 2010, 11:02 PM   #2356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sughosh View Post
Lo, gayi bhains paani mein!

I think we can safely say say 2020 for Metro II now
yes , very nice and I reckon we can expect these Bandra elites to pay the extra 300 crore per Km from their own pocket.

regardless, I don't think this makes much of a difference as even if they take their pathatic little case to court , the pettition will most likely be trashed in the greater intrest of public inconvenience, as has been done before.
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Old April 26th, 2010, 12:11 AM   #2357
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Yup...let's see who is still protesting when we ask all these Bandra protesters to pay for the extra underground cost...they'll all shut their mouths and move on.
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Old April 26th, 2010, 03:31 AM   #2358
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From the Mumbai mirror, a night render of the WEH station:



You can also see part of the cable stayed bridge that will cross the Jog flyover.

A snippet on the Ghatkopar station:

Quote:
Construction of the Ghatkopar station will be completed first, within the next few months.

It will have two levels – a concourse that will have an automatic fare collection system and a platform level. The stations will be centrally air-conditioned. Commuters will have to pass through the concourse level to get access to the platform level to board the metro train. All stations will be equipped with elevators for easy access, especially for the physically challenged. Coaches will even have a reserved area for the disabled.
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Old April 26th, 2010, 03:52 AM   #2359
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um... have we learned nothing from the construction of mm1? there are so many congested spots and the route comes so close to peoples homes. why would you make the same mistake twice?

@IU, I would completely forgive them if they actually make the station into this shopping complex with a cable stayed bridge and flashy lights at the platform level.
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Old April 26th, 2010, 03:53 AM   #2360
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From the TOI, a render of the Versova station -



Modern stations will dot first line of Metro
Quote:
Mumbai: State-of-the-art stations are springing up all along the route of the first Metro line from Versova to Ghatkopar. There will be 12 stations in all along the route, which covers a distance of 11.5 km.
“Care is being taken to ensure that all modern requirements for Metro stations are incorporated into the designs, which will bring about a paradigm shift in the way people commute in the city,’’ said additional commissioner for the Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority (MMRDA), S Srinivas.
Detailing security systems, Srinivas added that the stations will have a central surveillance system, which would be connected to a control room to monitor all movement at the stations round-theclock. CCTV cameras will also be installed inside the coaches. So, security staff will immediately be alerted to any untoward incident.

“Access to the stations will be made easier by elevators, which will also be of great help to the physically-challenged,’’ added Srinivas.

According to MMRDA officials, each Metro station will have a concourse and a platform level. Automatic fare collection counters will be situated at the concourse. The new systems would also ensure no serpentine queues. Commuters would have to go through the concourse to gain access to the platform and board the Metro.

The travel time of 75 minutes from Versova to Ghatkopar would be reduced to 20 minutes once the Metro rolls out. The corridor will have 12 stations including Versova, D N Nagar, Azad Nagar, Andheri, Western Express Highway, Chakala, Airport Road, Marol Naka, Sakinaka, Subhash Nagar, Asalpha Road and Ghatkopar.
also, an image of the first metro coach being transported to the DN nagar depot -



Quote:
The coaches,being unloaded at the port and likely to be dispatched to the car shed on Monday,will undergo range of tests on parts of the 11.4-km Metro corridor.It will be stationed at the DN Nagar depot in Versova where motormen, being recruited by the MMOPL,will be trained on simulation device shortly.Though the project has a December 2010 deadline,the bridge close to the Andheri station may delay the actual commissioning by four months.The route between DN Nagar depot and Azad Nagar near Navrang Cinema is expected to be completed first.
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