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Old October 5th, 2005, 01:17 AM   #41
chicagogeorge
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Does he means Haloumi cheese?
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for the Pelasgians, too, were a Greek nation originally from the Peloponnesus
The Roman Antiquities of Dionysius of Halicarnassus
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...assus/1B*.html

Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece". Strabo, VII, Frg. 9
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...ragments*.html

But north of the gulf, the first inhabitants are Greeks called Epirotes....
Procopius
http://books.google.com/books?id=9m6...page&q&f=false
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Old October 5th, 2005, 03:57 AM   #42
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If he does then it is delicious! lol
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Old October 5th, 2005, 04:08 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherry
If he does then it is delicious! lol
I like it, but some people find it rather salty.

Some photos of a parade in Cyprus:

Greece and Cyprus really are one!





Holding the Greek and Cypriot flag with pride!






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for the Pelasgians, too, were a Greek nation originally from the Peloponnesus
The Roman Antiquities of Dionysius of Halicarnassus
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...assus/1B*.html

Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece". Strabo, VII, Frg. 9
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...ragments*.html

But north of the gulf, the first inhabitants are Greeks called Epirotes....
Procopius
http://books.google.com/books?id=9m6...page&q&f=false
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Old October 5th, 2005, 10:33 AM   #44
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I just love haloumi.
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Old October 6th, 2005, 12:39 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge
I like it, but some people find it rather salty.
Holding the Greek and Cypriot flag with pride!
What is it that those people in the parade are so proud of?

Instead of holding nationalistic parades, the Greek Cypriots should work on reunification and becoming friends with the Turkish Cypriots. That would prove that they really share Europe's values and it would help Europe to achieve its goal of peace and long-term stability.

Then they could be proud of themselves and I would honor their achievement.
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Old October 6th, 2005, 02:32 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyland
What is it that those people in the parade are so proud of?

Instead of holding nationalistic parades, the Greek Cypriots should work on reunification and becoming friends with the Turkish Cypriots. That would prove that they really share Europe's values and it would help Europe to achieve its goal of peace and long-term stability.

Then they could be proud of themselves and I would honor their achievement.
Since when is it shameful of being proud of your country, and your ethnicity?
I guess we here in America should be discouraged in holding Independence Day parades, and any ethnic pride parades as well. You think this doesn't happen in the north?
I'm all for a just unification of the island and peacful coexistence with the Turkish Cypriots. However 30,000 Turkish troops, 100,000 Turkish mainland settlers living in once Greek homes in the north, and almost 35 years of seperation might present some difficulties in this dream. Furthermore, the Annan plan was far from perfect, and fell short in meeting many of the demands of the Greek Cypriots. As for sharing Europe's values, why not preach this to the British and the Irish over Northern Ireland? The Republic of Cyprus is a practicing democray, with the second highest gdp per capita in the Eastern Mediterranean (next to Israel).
__________________

for the Pelasgians, too, were a Greek nation originally from the Peloponnesus
The Roman Antiquities of Dionysius of Halicarnassus
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...assus/1B*.html

Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece". Strabo, VII, Frg. 9
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...ragments*.html

But north of the gulf, the first inhabitants are Greeks called Epirotes....
Procopius
http://books.google.com/books?id=9m6...page&q&f=false

Last edited by chicagogeorge; October 6th, 2005 at 02:46 AM.
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Old October 6th, 2005, 03:44 AM   #47
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All are amazing pictures of the island. Half of my family lives in North Cyprus and I visit frequently. One problem is to get used to driving on the right seat. (British style)
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Old October 6th, 2005, 03:48 AM   #48
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And I would like to see the island united one day. The island belongs to both Turkish and Greek Cypriots and nobody else!
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Old October 6th, 2005, 08:19 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge
Since when is it shameful of being proud of your country, and your ethnicity?
I guess we here in America should be discouraged in holding Independence Day parades, and any ethnic pride parades as well. You think this doesn't happen in the north?
I'm all for a just unification of the island and peacful coexistence with the Turkish Cypriots. However 30,000 Turkish troops, 100,000 Turkish mainland settlers living in once Greek homes in the north, and almost 35 years of seperation might present some difficulties in this dream. Furthermore, the Annan plan was far from perfect, and fell short in meeting many of the demands of the Greek Cypriots. As for sharing Europe's values, why not preach this to the British and the Irish over Northern Ireland? The Republic of Cyprus is a practicing democray, with the second highest gdp per capita in the Eastern Mediterranean (next to Israel).
I dont think the Greek Cypriot leaders have done and do enough to promote unification and peace. There is a point where people have to accept the historic reality. Thus, I can only comment to the Greek Cypriots: Let it go or you will lose everything. Last year, they had a historical unique chance to regain a signficant amount of land - however, I am very sure that during the next negotiations (if they take place at all) they will receive less or nothing. And no country (except for Greece) will help Greek Cyprus next time. European leaders are fed up with Greek Cypriot stubborness, the UN is tired of the Cyprus problem and Turkey will close their door again (after they had it wide open last year). Last years Greek Cypriot vote was anti-european indeed. Their move to reject the UN plan was very, very dumb and shortsighted. That just proved that nationalistic pride makes people blind (and it always did). It seems that many Greek Cypriots place the value of the nation higher than the value of the individual and that is dumb too. We are not living in the 19th century when all Europeans freaked out with their nationalistic movements which led to horrible wars. Europe is different today: We are friends and want to build a free and wealthy Europe that is grounded in its diverse cultures and languages. Definitely, too many Greek Cypriots have not mentally arrived in Europe yet, they are stuck in the 19th century. I wonder why they want to be part of Europe if they even hate their immediate neighbours. They seem to have misunderstood what Europe is really about.
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Old October 6th, 2005, 05:00 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyland
I wonder why they want to be part of Europe if they even hate their immediate neighbours. They seem to have misunderstood what Europe is really about.
Wow! Well, I wonder why Turkey wants to be part of Europe (the EU) if they will not even recognize one of its members. They seem to have misunderstood what Europe is really about.

Also, let's get one thing straight. The Republic of Cyprus does not want to be a part of Europe....they ARE a part of Europe and the EU.
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Old October 7th, 2005, 02:48 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyland
I dont think the Greek Cypriot leaders have done and do enough to promote unification and peace. There is a point where people have to accept the historic reality. Thus, I can only comment to the Greek Cypriots: Let it go or you will lose everything. Last year, they had a historical unique chance to regain a signficant amount of land - however, I am very sure that during the next negotiations (if they take place at all) they will receive less or nothing. And no country (except for Greece) will help Greek Cyprus next time. European leaders are fed up with Greek Cypriot stubborness, the UN is tired of the Cyprus problem and Turkey will close their door again (after they had it wide open last year). Last years Greek Cypriot vote was anti-european indeed. Their move to reject the UN plan was very, very dumb and shortsighted. That just proved that nationalistic pride makes people blind (and it always did). It seems that many Greek Cypriots place the value of the nation higher than the value of the individual and that is dumb too. We are not living in the 19th century when all Europeans freaked out with their nationalistic movements which led to horrible wars. Europe is different today: We are friends and want to build a free and wealthy Europe that is grounded in its diverse cultures and languages. Definitely, too many Greek Cypriots have not mentally arrived in Europe yet, they are stuck in the 19th century. I wonder why they want to be part of Europe if they even hate their immediate neighbours. They seem to have misunderstood what Europe is really about.

Before I rip your thesis apart, I would like to start off by saying that some of my best friends are Turks. However, I will use strong words, and powerful images in presenting this particular topic, I hope I don't offend you.




Give me a break Skyland! What Europe is all about! What an ridiculous statement!
Let it go or they will lose everything? What? Is the Turkish army going to overrun the rest of Cyprus, an EU member nation?

I think you are the one that is misinformed here. The Annan Plan is not, as claimed, "fair and balanced." It is utterly unfair and unbalanced and decidedly anti- Greek Cypriot. It rewards Turkey's aggression and punishes the Greek Cypriot.

The Annan Plan does not, as claimed, offer a "hopeful vision of a peaceful and prosperous future for all Cypriots." It would bring economic disaster to the Greek Cypriots, the victims, who are required to make huge payments to the Turkish Cypriots, while Turkey, the aggressor, pays nothing.

The Annan Plan does not, as claimed, outline " an equitable compromise…which satisfies the fundamental requirements of all parties." It is, on the contrary, so clearly one-sided on its face in favor of Turkey as to be ludicrous.

The Annan Plan does not, as claimed, create a state " with workable governing institutions." It is, on the contrary, an unworkable plan which would lead to repeated stalemates and which perpetuates and hardens ethnic divisions instead of unifying all Cypriots.

The Annan Plan:

is undemocratic automatically giving Turkish Cypriots 40% of the Parliament when they constitute less than 20% of the population.
It subverts property rights;
It does not provide for full demilitarization of Cyprus, but a gradual reduction of Turkish troops over a 20 year period to 5,000.
It allows 100,000 illegal settlers to remain; (Why is the world so bent on removing Jewish settles from the West Bank and Gaza, but not Turkish settles from Northern Cyprus?)
It does not allow all of the 200,000 Greek Cypriot refugees to return to their homes and property; and

It gives the 18% Turkish Cypriot minority 28.5% of the territory of Cyprus

Contrary to what you seem to believe, the Turksish side of the island also holds nationalistic military parades as well......



Also some Turkish propaganda posters of the 1974 invasion:



And how about some ultra nationalism circa 1996: Turkish ocupying troops shoot unarmed Greek Cypriot demostrator dead after his cousin was beaten by an armed mobin the Green Zone:

Turkish police beat unarmed Greek Cypriot demonstratorto death:



His cousin being killed for trying to take down the occupying flag:



Her is the gruesome video:
http://www.members.tripod.com/discov...rus/VIsaac.htm
http://www.members.tripod.com/discov...s/VSolomou.htm

2 U.N. soldiers were also shot by Turkish troops!
Now tell me, is it just the Greeks who are ultra-nationalists here, or are there others!
__________________

for the Pelasgians, too, were a Greek nation originally from the Peloponnesus
The Roman Antiquities of Dionysius of Halicarnassus
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...assus/1B*.html

Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece". Strabo, VII, Frg. 9
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...ragments*.html

But north of the gulf, the first inhabitants are Greeks called Epirotes....
Procopius
http://books.google.com/books?id=9m6...page&q&f=false

Last edited by chicagogeorge; October 7th, 2005 at 03:30 AM.
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Old October 7th, 2005, 03:00 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyland
I dont think the Greek Cypriot leaders have done and do enough to promote unification and peace. There is a point where people have to accept the historic reality. Thus, I can only comment to the Greek Cypriots: Let it go or you will lose everything. Last year, they had a historical unique chance to regain a signficant amount of land - however, I am very sure that during the next negotiations (if they take place at all) they will receive less or nothing. And no country (except for Greece) will help Greek Cyprus next time. European leaders are fed up with Greek Cypriot stubborness, the UN is tired of the Cyprus problem and Turkey will close their door again (after they had it wide open last year). Last years Greek Cypriot vote was anti-european indeed. Their move to reject the UN plan was very, very dumb and shortsighted. That just proved that nationalistic pride makes people blind (and it always did). It seems that many Greek Cypriots place the value of the nation higher than the value of the individual and that is dumb too. We are not living in the 19th century when all Europeans freaked out with their nationalistic movements which led to horrible wars. Europe is different today: We are friends and want to build a free and wealthy Europe that is grounded in its diverse cultures and languages. Definitely, too many Greek Cypriots have not mentally arrived in Europe yet, they are stuck in the 19th century. I wonder why they want to be part of Europe if they even hate their immediate neighbours. They seem to have misunderstood what Europe is really about.

Really? And what was the Turkish Cypriot side doing for 30+ yrs? You are only taking into account what happened recently! And yes there was a referendum and a unification plan that was put forth (and that was a start) but don't forget that it was BOTH sides that were willing ... but how can you undue 30 yrs of absolutely NO progress and then expect to make it all better?! Especially since the Anan plan was unfair to the Greek Cypriot side?

And let's get one more thing straight. The majority of Greek and Turkish Cypriots want reunification! If the U.S. and the UK and Turkey all want reunification on their terms (aka the Anan Plan) then I'm afraid reunification will be impossible to achieve!
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Old October 7th, 2005, 10:34 AM   #53
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Well, good luck then. I just hope that the European Union will not lose too much energy on this ridiculous conflict. We have more important tasks ahead: Competition with Asian economies, unemployment, education or energy. Your conflict is anachronistic and harms Europe. Just read the BBC-article below and you will see that Greek- and Turkish Cypriots do not much to overcome the situation. This is very un-european indeed. Legally Greek Cyprus is in the European Union, but in reality it is far, far away from the European spirit of reconciliation and cooperation.

Cyprus keeps its hidden barrier, Oct 5, 2005
By Tabitha Morgan
BBC News, Nicosia

Although Greek and Turkish Cypriots are now able to mix together freely and cross to the opposite sides of the island there is still little trust between the two communities and relatively little contact.

The UN buffer zone - the Green Line - stretches across Cyprus from east to west and runs right through the centre of Nicosia. It is off-limits for all but UN personnel.

On either side there are several miles of derelict buildings, untouched since their occupants left in 1974.

For Greek Cypriot anthropologist Yiannis Papadakis this - largely silent - abandoned zone symbolises the two communities' reluctance to engage with each other.

"When you have a dead zone in the middle, this creates a strong dynamic of censorship on both sides," Mr Papadakis says.

"If a Greek Cypriot dares to mention any of the suffering of Turkish Cypriots he will be accused of talking like a Turkish Cypriot extremist. And the same goes for Turkish Cypriots."

What has developed on the island, then, is a culture of self-censorship and an unwillingness to acknowledge the wrongs done to the other community.

Change plea

In the Turkish Cypriot Museum of Barbarism there are photographs of Turkish Cypriot children slaughtered in their baths and many other images from the years of inter-ethnic conflict.

History here is recounted exclusively from the Turkish Cypriot perspective.

Local lawyer Emine Erk represents some of the families of those who were killed in the violence, whose bodies are still missing.

She believes it is time that both sides stopped exploiting the subject for political ends.

"The Turkish Cypriot missing is an issue and a wound in the north for those people - the Greek Cypriot missing is an issue, and a wound in the south," Ms Erk says.

"There is no sign of both groups getting together and realising that their grief is the same, the crime against them is the same. That's the culture that unfortunately still needs a lot of change."

'Cypriot nation'

A quiet game of backgammon takes place under the citrus trees at a Turkish Cypriot club for retired civil servants.

This is the generation that worked and lived alongside Greek Cypriots in the early days of their county's independence - when, for a few years, the two communities co-existed relatively peacefully.

But many Turkish Cypriots - like retired Foreign Minister Vedat Celik - argue that the island was never ethnically integrated.

"We cannot accept the Greek claim that we are all Cypriots as one people. There is no Cypriot, there is the Greek Cypriot and there is the Turkish Cypriot," Mr Celik says.

"These two communities have not merged. There were Turkish villages and there were Greek villages but even with the limited mixed areas there was the Turkish quarter, there was the Greek quarter."

Invisible barrier

Despite the fact that Cypriots can travel around their island, only a tiny group of enthusiasts has gathered for the latest bi-communal poetry reading.

"There are no results of all those 20 years of citizens being involved, like a bi-communal school, bi-communal exchanges of trade, maybe companies founded together," says Greek Cypriot Katie Economidou, a bi-communal activist.

"There are no pages on our newspaper on the life of the other side. The Green Line is open physically for us to move but there is an invisible barrier that stops us."

Removing that barrier will take more than just opening the borders.

Limited contact may be taking place at an informal level but it will need the co-operation of both communities to build institutions they can share before the psychological barriers that keep them apart can be removed.
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Old October 7th, 2005, 07:23 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyland
Well, good luck then. I just hope that the European Union will not lose too much energy on this ridiculous conflict. We have more important tasks ahead: Competition with Asian economies, unemployment, education or energy. Your conflict is anachronistic and harms Europe. Just read the BBC-article below and you will see that Greek- and Turkish Cypriots do not much to overcome the situation. This is very un-european indeed. Legally Greek Cyprus is in the European Union, but in reality it is far, far away from the European spirit of reconciliation and cooperation.

You came in here bashing Greek Cyprus, and yet did not address one thing said by any posters here regarding the Annan plan.

Do you know the details of it? Have you read through it? Do you think it is fair?

Just some main points, any Turkish military presence on the island once united is simply unnaceptable. Not only does it legalize the illegal occupation, but for what point should Turkey have troops in anothers country? I can go on about it, but chicagogeorge summed up the basics. Instead of coming in here on your high hoarse, throwing around comments, do some research and find out the reasons as to WHY. Now that steps were brought even closer to unite the island but fell short, they know where they stand and maybe can find a more common ground. The people in the end are the ones that vote, let them decide what they want for THEIR future...... Insulting, throwing to the wasteside and washing your hands of the situation with a "mighter than thou" attitude won't help anything. (nor will the nationalistic BS from politicians on both sides) This is something that will take time. It should be for the people...
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(Herodotos, 9.45)

Last edited by Christos7; October 7th, 2005 at 07:46 PM.
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Old October 7th, 2005, 11:26 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

Before I rip your thesis apart, I would like to start off by saying that some of my best friends are Turks. However, I will use strong words, and powerful images in presenting this particular topic, I hope I don't offend you.




Give me a break Skyland! What Europe is all about! What an ridiculous statement!
Let it go or they will lose everything? What? Is the Turkish army going to overrun the rest of Cyprus, an EU member nation?

I think you are the one that is misinformed here. The Annan Plan is not, as claimed, "fair and balanced." It is utterly unfair and unbalanced and decidedly anti- Greek Cypriot. It rewards Turkey's aggression and punishes the Greek Cypriot.

The Annan Plan does not, as claimed, offer a "hopeful vision of a peaceful and prosperous future for all Cypriots." It would bring economic disaster to the Greek Cypriots, the victims, who are required to make huge payments to the Turkish Cypriots, while Turkey, the aggressor, pays nothing.

The Annan Plan does not, as claimed, outline " an equitable compromise…which satisfies the fundamental requirements of all parties." It is, on the contrary, so clearly one-sided on its face in favor of Turkey as to be ludicrous.

The Annan Plan does not, as claimed, create a state " with workable governing institutions." It is, on the contrary, an unworkable plan which would lead to repeated stalemates and which perpetuates and hardens ethnic divisions instead of unifying all Cypriots.

The Annan Plan:

is undemocratic automatically giving Turkish Cypriots 40% of the Parliament when they constitute less than 20% of the population.
It subverts property rights;
It does not provide for full demilitarization of Cyprus, but a gradual reduction of Turkish troops over a 20 year period to 5,000.
It allows 100,000 illegal settlers to remain; (Why is the world so bent on removing Jewish settles from the West Bank and Gaza, but not Turkish settles from Northern Cyprus?)
It does not allow all of the 200,000 Greek Cypriot refugees to return to their homes and property; and

It gives the 18% Turkish Cypriot minority 28.5% of the territory of Cyprus

Contrary to what you seem to believe, the Turksish side of the island also holds nationalistic military parades as well......



Also some Turkish propaganda posters of the 1974 invasion:



And how about some ultra nationalism circa 1996: Turkish ocupying troops shoot unarmed Greek Cypriot demostrator dead after his cousin was beaten by an armed mobin the Green Zone:

Turkish police beat unarmed Greek Cypriot demonstratorto death:



His cousin being killed for trying to take down the occupying flag:



Her is the gruesome video:
http://www.members.tripod.com/discov...rus/VIsaac.htm
http://www.members.tripod.com/discov...s/VSolomou.htm

2 U.N. soldiers were also shot by Turkish troops!
Now tell me, is it just the Greeks who are ultra-nationalists here, or are there others!
Great post george. Those people who beat that man are nothing more than barbarians, and I dont even consider them to be human.

@Skyland: You have a lot to learn. Why dont you learn too see all sides of an issue instead of blaming Greek-Cypriots for everything. The Annan plan was ridiculous and Greek-Cypriots should never have to agree to anything less than getting their homes in occupied Cyprus back, and a removal of Turkish forces from the island.
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Old October 7th, 2005, 11:31 PM   #56
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Take note people!

These will be the new members of a civilized European society.....how sad...
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Old October 7th, 2005, 11:49 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FANATIC
Take note people!

These will be the new members of a civilized European society.....how sad...
hahahha,our Leafy is back, suddenly he forgot Greek police was beating
those poor refugees just 48 hours ago.....
"""""civilized European society"""""my azzzz
hahahhahaha
Good one Leafy

case closed.............just for you
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Old October 7th, 2005, 11:57 PM   #58
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Lombak QUICKLY go back to your racist WHITE PEOPLE UBER ALLES site you were caught red handed USING, CITING and PROMOTING in this forum !!!

Oh, that WAS a classic !!!! We sure HAD FUN exposing your true colours !

Also just FOR you :

Turkey sentences Armenian writer

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4319370.stm

your azzzzzzzzzzzzzz !
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Old October 7th, 2005, 11:57 PM   #59
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You guys like to talk about Cypriots but i see more Greek flags here than the Southern Cyprus flag... Let's stop kidding ourselves here, there are no Cypriots in this island but Turks and Greeks...

Leafy you consider yourself as civilised? Oh shit!

btw we won't be an EU member, when the time comes we'll say ''NO''... we don't need EU...
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Old October 7th, 2005, 11:59 PM   #60
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Leafy you consider yourself as civilised? Oh shit!

...
It devalues the whole thing!
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