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Old January 24th, 2015, 04:41 PM   #81
zoomwhoosh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowboard99 View Post
The freight line is completely grade separated and wire-free between Chullora and south of Macarthur. There is also a passing loop around Glenfield.

I imagine the wires on the old lines in are because they used to run freight to some locations with electric locomotives, I don't think they do any more, and if they do it definitely won't be on the SSFL since it provides a connection to the unwired section of track south of Macarthur.
Which begs the question of why they had overhead wiring for freight in the first place.

More importantly, do they currently run freight from Cabramatta up through Lidcombe (which I take it wouldn't be grade separated?), or are they opting to take it to Chullora and then take it north via that loopy bit between Flemington and Lidcombe? (but sometime in the future).
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Old January 25th, 2015, 06:18 AM   #82
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Which begs the question of why they had overhead wiring for freight in the first place.
The intention had been to take freight all electric in Sydney (not sure about Illawarra and Hunter), until it was discovered it placed too much load on the power supply. It operated as a bit of both until privatisation, when the private operators decided all diesel was most cost effective. Bankstown line catenary was installed, but I don't recall seeing it ever used.
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Old January 25th, 2015, 07:58 AM   #83
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Electric freight working stopped because the charging scheme for operators made it too expensive. How it become possible that drawing from the overhead cost more per km than diesel per raw watt of power delivered is one of those historical tragedies.

The overhead supply limitations and the need to change locomotives at the edges of electric running area meant it was probably doomed from pure operational efficiency reasons in the privatised era anyway.
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Old January 25th, 2015, 08:28 AM   #84
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Electric freight working stopped because the charging scheme for operators made it too expensive. How it become possible that drawing from the overhead cost more per km than diesel per raw watt of power delivered is one of those historical tragedies.

The overhead supply limitations and the need to change locomotives at the edges of electric running area meant it was probably doomed from pure operational efficiency reasons in the privatised era anyway.
The catenary system in general is apallingly costly. Who specified whack8ng great I beams?
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Old January 25th, 2015, 10:09 AM   #85
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The catenary system in general is apallingly costly. Who specified whack8ng great I beams?
RailCorp engineering standards

The standards for OHW in NSW are ridiculous. Go look at the structures in Victoria holding up the same 1500v contact wires - they're half the size. As are lots of the old structures that never got modernised (eg in the Blue Mountains)

Has the strength of the portal/mast structures ever been an issue? I'm not aware of such a problem

BTW there are an idiotic number of "standard" arrangements for OHW as well in this state, it's ludicrously over complicated
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Old January 25th, 2015, 10:44 AM   #86
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RailCorp engineering standards

The standards for OHW in NSW are ridiculous. Go look at the structures in Victoria holding up the same 1500v contact wires - they're half the size. As are lots of the old structures that never got modernised (eg in the Blue Mountains)

Has the strength of the portal/mast structures ever been an issue? I'm not aware of such a problem

BTW there are an idiotic number of "standard" arrangements for OHW as well in this state, it's ludicrously over complicated
Long long ago I had a friend and mentor who inspired me to go into electronics and for whom I worked on a number of occasions on electronic and software projects. He often did work for the SRA and the stories he told me were truly cringeworthy. Just schoolboy errors. And a total lack of electronic design expertise. Every time I stare out the window of a train and look at those miles and miles of fat cable ducts I wonder if we'll ever employ competent engineers on our railways. But the I beams? Urgh.
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Old January 25th, 2015, 01:45 PM   #87
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Quote:
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More importantly, do they currently run freight from Cabramatta up through Lidcombe (which I take it wouldn't be grade separated?), or are they opting to take it to Chullora and then take it north via that loopy bit between Flemington and Lidcombe? (but sometime in the future).
I'd assume no freight would run from Cabramatta up through Lidcombe.

Any freight from Cabramatta to the Northern line, would run via Chullora then that loopy bit between Flemington and Lidcombe, as it can use the "5th track" for access directly to North Strathfiled, without any clash with the Western line whatsoever.
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Old January 28th, 2015, 04:07 AM   #88
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Labor appear to be showing their hand in advance of the election
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1227198873159

Rash
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Old January 28th, 2015, 04:17 AM   #89
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Seriously - the stupidity blows my mind. And I'm (mostly) a Labor supporter.
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Old January 28th, 2015, 04:27 AM   #90
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This is a very interesting statement:

Quote:
“I am not convinced another connection from the north is a priority for the city,” Mr Foley said
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Old January 28th, 2015, 04:36 AM   #91
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Labor appear to be showing their hand in advance of the election
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1227198873159

Rash
I was at a Labor candidate's campaign office warming yesterday and freely admitted that I thought state Labor needed better advice on transport and was surprised that I was generally agreed with.
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Old January 28th, 2015, 04:41 AM   #92
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Labor appear to be showing their hand in advance of the election
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1227198873159

Rash
No surprises. NSW Labour spent decades trying to avoid a second harbour crossing to the North and that is not going to change now. Why should anything be built for those North Shore toffs? Completely missing the real point. As also discussed on here previously they have also backed themselves into a corner with the opposition to lease of 50% of the poles and wires.

What I think they may do is return to the WEX/ CBD relief tunnel plan for around $5b. That will not only deliver the faster Western lines to Wynyard using more frequent and longer 12 car trains it would also allow for 10-12 tph for the Northern line and so CBD bound NWRL passengers would change at Epping for fast trains via the Suburban lines (Strathfield) to the North Shore. If desperate for funds they could sell the full plan at the election and then convert it to a 2 stage plan. Start with the either the Western line running into Sydney Terminal (WEX for $1B) and Stage 2 would be the expensive tunnel running from Redfern to Wynyard ($4B).
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Old January 28th, 2015, 05:17 AM   #93
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The NSW branch of the ALP should be excommunicated, and it should have happened 10 years ago.
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Old January 28th, 2015, 10:25 AM   #94
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Labor appear to be showing their hand in advance of the election
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1227198873159

Rash
Luckily Labor’s got little to no chance of winning the next election, and if the current timetable for the 2nd harbour crossing is kept the TBM’s will be in the ground by 2018 so its very doubtful Labor will be able to stop this project.
Will be interesting to see what their alternative will be, but I agree with Oz Rails that it will probably be WEX/ the CBD relief line.
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Old January 28th, 2015, 11:21 AM   #95
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And if they keep to the timetable for the second crossing, Labor won't be back before 2023, at the earliest.
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Old January 28th, 2015, 02:01 PM   #96
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I suppose the biggest frustration for me is (as ever) the ridiculous level of party politicisation of transport policy in the states

Foley's comments amount to "We haven't worked out our policy yet, but we'll get it out there early in the campaign, but one thing you can be sure of is we'll be junking their plans"

Well, what a load of sh1t that is for an attitude. Where's the vision and strategy for what direction they want to take the state? Where's the context, in terms of transport planning, to inform those comments?

It's just the same old, same old: A shopping list of half-baked ideas for projects.

When are people in this country going to learn that this sort of crap is a large part of the reason that infrastructure in this country gets screwed up? We simply can't afford the flip-flopping and constant change, it costs taxpayers huge sums and delays things by years. Big infrastructure is hard stuff to get over the line - it costs a heck of a lot and always comes with a lot of impacts (including the opportunity cost of what you can't afford). So it takes years to get the right schemes off the ground, many more years than the political cycle allows. And what makes schemes the "right" schemes tends to be completely independent of whatever the major parties policies will mean for the trajectory of the state. Ultimately (in Sydney) whoever gets in, we are going to have a growing population, much of that growth is going to be in the same places regardless of politics, and the existing problems with transport (that need fixing, apart from the provision for growth) are the same. So why are the policies diametrically opposed? Idiotic
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Old January 29th, 2015, 11:44 AM   #97
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The NSW Labor party flip-flopped, multiple times, whilst in government. That's a big part of the reason they are and will continue to be in Opposition for years and years to come.

Foley's statements reinforce this, but it should have been known given the ALP has been vacant in the policy area for the past four years. Heck, they haven't even been able to trumpet the South-West Rail Link or Opal Card when they planned and started them! - they're their very own successes.
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Old January 30th, 2015, 07:18 AM   #98
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Yes, ridiculous that you would go to the election without a carefully considered transport policy. Sounds like NSW Labor for much of the 1995-2011 timeframe, so we shouldn't really be surprised.
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Old January 31st, 2015, 02:42 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pintpot View Post
I suppose the biggest frustration for me is (as ever) the ridiculous level of party politicisation of transport policy in the states

Foley's comments amount to "We haven't worked out our policy yet, but we'll get it out there early in the campaign, but one thing you can be sure of is we'll be junking their plans"

Well, what a load of sh1t that is for an attitude. Where's the vision and strategy for what direction they want to take the state? Where's the context, in terms of transport planning, to inform those comments?
It is frustrating that Labor is bipartisan on road projects (WestConnex) but not rail projects, which is the opposite of Victoria which is the opposite of what is needed for mode shift in infrastructure development. Thankfully they are unlikely to win government.

Having said all that, there are other ways to get the same or greater capacity increment as what the 2nd Harbour crossing facilitates, at a lower cost. This is my speculation on what Labor could bring to the March election:

Mike Baird and Gladys: Comparison against Labor NSW's 2015 Transport Plan (hypothetical)

Further more, the other projects I outline in my post are not mutually exclusive with the 2nd HC, but in fact could work together in conjunction with it.

Last edited by xfung; January 31st, 2015 at 12:18 PM.
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Old January 31st, 2015, 03:40 AM   #100
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Having said all that, there are other ways to get the same or greater capacity increment as what the 2nd Harbour crossing facilitates, at a lower cost. This is my speculation on what Labor could bring to the March election:

Mike Baird and Gladys: Comparison against Labor NSW's 2015 Transport Plan (hypothetical)

I want to read that but I can't open that link, says my account doesn't have the right permission?
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