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Old January 31st, 2015, 12:19 PM   #101
xfung
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 466nick View Post
Having said all that, there are other ways to get the same or greater capacity increment as what the 2nd Harbour crossing facilitates, at a lower cost. This is my speculation on what Labor could bring to the March election:

Mike Baird and Gladys: Comparison against Labor NSW's 2015 Transport Plan (hypothetical)

I want to read that but I can't open that link, says my account doesn't have the right permission?
I've updated the link, sorry had put wrong link in before.

Correct link is:

http://sydneyprop.blogspot.com.au/20...othetical.html
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Old January 31st, 2015, 12:31 PM   #102
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I quite like these various flavours of WEX type proposals, but I have a couple of caveats:

A) First and foremost, timescale. I think people underestimate what is required in terms of project definition and early design to prove a concept. It's years, not months or weeks. One of the more valid criticisms aimed at NWRL is that metro isn't really the obvious mode for the more far flung sections of the line, but the govt went for it because so much of the definition in terms of corridor proving, land acquisition/reserve, station location planning and so on, had already been done for the various NWRL plans that have been on the table and pushed around for over 10 years

It's all very well going in to an election with something like this, but your ability to deliver it in the 4 years before the next election is nil, so in political terms it's risky

B) I think cost and complexity can be easily underestimated. Reconfig somewhere around Strathfield and station at Barangaroo are the most obvious issues. Set against that is the propensity of people to overestimate the costs of TBM tunnelling these days. In an urban environment like Sydney with the land values we have here, it almost becomes the cheap choice, it's only the underground stations that are cost painful.
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Old January 31st, 2015, 12:46 PM   #103
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I quite like these various flavours of WEX type proposals, but I have a couple of caveats:

A) First and foremost, timescale. I think people underestimate what is required in terms of project definition and early design to prove a concept. It's years, not months or weeks. One of the more valid criticisms aimed at NWRL is that metro isn't really the obvious mode for the more far flung sections of the line, but the govt went for it because so much of the definition in terms of corridor proving, land acquisition/reserve, station location planning and so on, had already been done for the various NWRL plans that have been on the table and pushed around for over 10 years

It's all very well going in to an election with something like this, but your ability to deliver it in the 4 years before the next election is nil, so in political terms it's risky

B) I think cost and complexity can be easily underestimated. Reconfig somewhere around Strathfield and station at Barangaroo are the most obvious issues. Set against that is the propensity of people to overestimate the costs of TBM tunnelling these days. In an urban environment like Sydney with the land values we have here, it almost becomes the cheap choice, it's only the underground stations that are cost painful.
Its interesting that the "Blue Sky WEX" idea has come up here because I corresponded a lot with the guy responsible for this idea (xfung on SSC) and met him in person and it indeed has its merits.

We almost certainly need more trains on the inner west line. The real question is whether to connect it to Pyrmont/Barangaroo. I feel that it makes better sense to simply branch the SRT line in order to take over the inner west line as a metro. I also think that if you're going to take over the Hurstville line that's a better task for a later metro-ification of the eastern suburbs line.

We also need more capacity not just from Homebush but from Parramatta and points west, so I think there's no avoiding a fast rail line from the city to Parramatta.

The other big issue that for me clinches the deal with the SRT, is that once you have the SRT you have the additional capacity through the city to allow a progressive rebuild of Town Hall and then Wynyard. And quite possibly other improvements to the inner city network that would be a lot more difficult otherwise.

What irks me about a lot of rail planning is the defeatist assumption that the rail network will simply have to cope with incremental growth and not actually take over a very much larger slab of the potential travel market.

We don't just need another line to Parramatta. We need other high speed links. And if rail actually provided more of what people wanted (speed and quality of experience) then all of our predictions of growth could be thrown out the window. And we'll find that the SRT is not only capable of more than 40tph but that's absolutely essential.
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Old January 31st, 2015, 12:56 PM   #104
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Oh incidentally, xfung, since you're here, I might tell you where I'm at.

I'm convinced that a fast line to Parramatta is essential and that it needs to be capable of very high frequency and thus I still think its a good idea to bifurcate it on the city end.

I'm also convinced that a station under both the existing Town Hall station and the new SRT station is essential, and indeed the preliminary work for it could be done at the same time as the SRT station is being built AND if we're clever we could widen Town Hall station at the same time.

That leaves where to put the other terminus and whilst I just love Barangaroo, that idea might be superseded by the SRT having a station at Barangaroo. Ergo where do I go to next? And that's either Central or some other clever idea that I haven't had yet. Ideas welcome.

I still think that its worth building a faster Pyrmont/White bay light rail link.

Oh and the other day I met someone who has researched Maglev and one of the key benefits of Maglev is acceleration. Which means that some of my earlier figures could be pessimistic. And the bottom line is that it may be possible to add another station. So Strathfield or north Strathfield isn't out of the question.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 05:45 AM   #105
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Please let Mike and Gladys get reelected. If they can then sell the poles and wires as quickly as possible after that, and order the new TBMs for the next dig.

They have gone quiet on the new station locations eg Crows Nest and Victoria Cross. And whether Waterloo or Syd Uni would get the nod.
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Old February 12th, 2015, 01:23 PM   #106
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Hopefully with the state election now only 6 weeks away we’ll soon see a much more detailed route/ more advanced design including exact initial station locations between Chatswood – Sydenham. I think the only thing they’ll leave open is whether the route is via Sydney Uni or Waterloo although I have heard planners at TfNSW favour the route via Sydney Uni.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 04:48 AM   #107
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I'd love to SydUni station fitted out with sandstone cladding etc. Just as I expect Victoria Cross to have photos and stories of Victoria Cross recipients.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 04:56 AM   #108
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Quote:
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I'd love to SydUni station fitted out with sandstone cladding etc. Just as I expect Victoria Cross to have photos and stories of Victoria Cross recipients.
What's the BCR for that?

Shotcrete FTW
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Old February 13th, 2015, 05:02 AM   #109
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What's the BCR for that?

Shotcrete FTW
Sandstone EFFECT then
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Old February 13th, 2015, 05:48 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoshowwithoutPunch View Post
Sandstone EFFECT then
Hang on a sec..

If you dig a hole anywhere in Sydney you automatically have sandstone cladding

Edit: Nice to see you back NSWP!
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Old February 13th, 2015, 07:28 AM   #111
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Hang on a sec..

If you dig a hole anywhere in Sydney you automatically have sandstone cladding

Edit: Nice to see you back NSWP!
Thanks but I won't be posting much. Definitely agree that the 'raw' look might be the go particularly if they can a patch of the very yellow sandstone.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 11:30 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Jabbawookie View Post
Hopefully with the state election now only 6 weeks away we’ll soon see a much more detailed route/ more advanced design including exact initial station locations between Chatswood – Sydenham. I think the only thing they’ll leave open is whether the route is via Sydney Uni or Waterloo although I have heard planners at TfNSW favour the route via Sydney Uni.
I would like to see that too.

Why do you think planners prefer Syd Uni?
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Old February 13th, 2015, 11:52 AM   #113
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Thanks but I won't be posting much. Definitely agree that the 'raw' look might be the go particularly if they can a patch of the very yellow sandstone.
One of the NWRL cut & cover stations (I forget which, I think Showground) will have a "raw" look for most of it at the mezzanine level, but it's the only one where the ground is good enough

The other two will be concreted up

Hawkesbury Sandstone weathers easily so there's less of the good stuff to leave exposed than you'd think
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Old February 13th, 2015, 12:31 PM   #114
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I think we've got the interior finishes sorted for a Leichhardt metro station if it ever gets built:

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"The issue is too important to be left standing on the Platform particularly at a railway station that does not yet exist."

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Old February 13th, 2015, 01:35 PM   #115
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What are the platform lengths on the NWRL/SRT?

Also have people seen this..



http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...r-1-8-billion/

Pretty awful rant and some of the comment aren't much better.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 01:36 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by pintpot View Post
One of the NWRL cut & cover stations (I forget which, I think Showground) will have a "raw" look for most of it at the mezzanine level, but it's the only one where the ground is good enough

The other two will be concreted up

Hawkesbury Sandstone weathers easily so there's less of the good stuff to leave exposed than you'd think
But you gotta admit it has a certain charm when it develops patches and streaks of moss
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Old February 13th, 2015, 01:42 PM   #117
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What are the platform lengths on the NWRL/SRT?
168m

Will start with 6 car trains, increasing to 8 car trains as patronage demands

http://nwrail.transport.nsw.gov.au/N...nfographic.pdf

(I just had to check this was already in the public domain )
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Old February 13th, 2015, 01:49 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by zoomwhoosh View Post
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...r-1-8-billion/

Pretty awful rant and some of the comment aren't much better.
Idiotic nonsense. Ben Sandilands has enough knowledge to know some rail engineering terms, but that's where it ends. His blogs are always DD obsessive rants and contain numerous factual inaccuracies

"Universality" is such an overrated attribute. How often is it really required? What are the advantages?

The most laughable claim on the whole piece is that the TBMs had been ordered for "standard size" and had to be re-engineered (at a cost) to drill smaller bores. Comical
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Old February 13th, 2015, 01:51 PM   #119
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168m

Will start with 6 car trains, increasing to 8 car trains as patronage demands

http://nwrail.transport.nsw.gov.au/N...nfographic.pdf

(I just had to check this was already in the public domain )
So, 160m platforms? Or did they allow for longer? To my mind future proofing means a fair bit longer.
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Old February 13th, 2015, 01:52 PM   #120
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Idiotic nonsense. Ben Sandilands has enough knowledge to know some rail engineering terms, but that's where it ends. His blogs are always DD obsessive rants and contain numerous factual inaccuracies

"Universality" is such an overrated attribute. How often is it really required? What are the advantages?

The most laughable claim on the whole piece is that the TBMs had been ordered for "standard size" and had to be re-engineered (at a cost) to drill smaller bores. Comical
Yeah that last one.. I wonder where he got that from?

Feel free to set him straight. I was in the process of writing a reply earlier, but I got rung up and then decided what I'd written was too rude.
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