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Old June 11th, 2015, 01:39 PM   #1
mubd
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WESTERN SYDNEY: Proposed Light Rail (Parramatta to Westmead, Carlingford, Olympic Park)

Because Sydney is full of latte-sipping hipsters.

Carry on.
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Old June 11th, 2015, 03:06 PM   #2
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We sip flat-whites now, you filthy suburbanite.
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Old June 11th, 2015, 04:04 PM   #3
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Shouldn't it be 'Parramatta' ? Western Sydney is not a city, Parramatta is.

E.g. Washington DC/Baltimore, San Francisco/Oakland, NYC/New Jersey
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Old June 11th, 2015, 04:59 PM   #4
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Parramatta is not in Western Sydney.
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Old June 11th, 2015, 05:04 PM   #5
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It's more like the gateway to the greater west now. But it still is the capital of the west.
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Old June 11th, 2015, 10:27 PM   #6
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So far it's been referred to as the Western Sydney Light Rail network so the thread title seems entirely appropriate.
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Old June 11th, 2015, 10:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Parramatta light rail: Sydney Olympic Park tram would be a 'white elephant'


A light rail route linking Parramatta and Strathfield via Sydney Olympic Park would be a "white elephant" passing through "wastelands", according to Parramatta's Liberal lord mayor Scott Lloyd.

Parramatta Council has ramped up its campaign to have its preferred route for the $1 billion light rail network built amid concerns that the state government is leaning towards the Strathfield option.

The council is lobbying for a route from Westmead to Epping via Carlingford, a shorter version of one of the four routes being considered for construction.

The four routes are: Parramatta to Macquarie Park via Carlingford and Epping, Parramatta to Castle Hill via Old Northern Road, Parramatta to Bankstown, Parramatta to Strathfield/Burwood via Sydney Olympic Park.

The liberal dominated Parramatta Council has unanimously agreed to write to Premier Mike Baird and Transport Minister Andrew Constance to express concerns that a Strathfield tram would be unused and financially unviable.

The proposed Westmead to Epping route would link the Westmead health precinct, the Parramatta CBD and the University of Western Sydney's two city campuses. It would use the existing Carlingford rail line and would form a spine off which extensions to Macquarie Park, Castle Hill and Olympic Park could later be built.

Cr Lloyd said while the Strathfield route would connect areas earmarked for growth, such as the industrial Camellia precinct, it would be several years before such development occurred and "bums on seats" should be the priority of the first route.

"We have serious concerns that passenger numbers would not be sufficient to sustain the Strathfield via Olympic Park route as the first phase of the project, potentially jeopardising its expansion," Cr Lloyd said.

"You don't want to have a white elephant...How many empty trams will be going through the wastelands of Camellia not seeing a house or unit or anything for the next seven years?"

The Western Sydney Regional Organisation of Councils has also spoken out against the Strathfield route, saying the state government should consider "residents over the voice of investors".
Rest of story here
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Old June 12th, 2015, 12:50 AM   #8
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"The Western Sydney Regional Organisation of Councils has also spoken out against the Strathfield route, saying the state government should consider "residents over the voice of investors".

This endless narrative for/against developers & investors is paralysing. The implication is that if you have something that's paid for privately, that means you won't get something else that's funded publically and some magic way should be found of diverting that private funding to a public project instead. It's BS. You can see it in the debate over Westconnex - the opposition paints it as a $15bn injection of public money that will prevent anything else being done, and instead of "the government" spending all that, they should build a load of other stuff instead, like light rail lines past every Green voter's house. This is disingenuous.

They key questions for transport proposals ought to be:
  • What present or future need is it supposed to address? Is it to fill a hole now, or to enable development, or what?
  • How does it fit into the broader framework of transport planning? Does it make sense or is it just duplicating something else that's already planned? Does it matter even if it does?
  • How do the economics of it work? Where is it being funded from both Capex and Opex, what farebox recovery is envisaged?

....and other such questions

Deciding whether something is good or evil purely on the basis of whether or not it's wholly public funded or wholly private funded or a mix, is retarded.
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Old June 12th, 2015, 03:29 AM   #9
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^ I agree. However, I'm about as pro-developer as they come, though, but I'm hesitant to support the Olympic Park route for the initial phase because it largely depends on future development to be successful. If it doesn't come to fruition, then we end up in a negative feedback loop in which it potentially isn't successful and the whole project stalls. We know that the Macquarie Park routing will have ridership and fills an important transport gap, but may not have as much wholesale redevelopment potential.

Really, both should be built simultaneously to maximise initial impact, but the funding just isn't there. Having private funding could make that more possible and I really do hope that some agreement is reached. The debate on funding and private interests is idiotic and needs rephrasing regarding long-term viability and catchment more than anything else. We should encourage developers to take an active interest in connectivity and reward them for stepping up to this, but not make it a zero-sum game either.
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Old June 13th, 2015, 07:21 AM   #10
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Dept Planning to announce further Olympic Corridor priority precincts?

http://sydneyprop.blogspot.com.au/20...e-further.html

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Old June 13th, 2015, 08:43 AM   #11
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What I'd like to see is a reasonably fast metro connect Epping, Carlingford and Parramatta and then run light rail from Carlingford
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Old June 15th, 2015, 06:33 AM   #12
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Is there enough employment at Olympic Park to generate trips now
The Parra - Strathfield link would at least generate traffic during the Easter Show, sport and other events
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Old June 15th, 2015, 09:30 AM   #13
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I think the name Western Sydney is duff too.

Another typical Australian disease - laziness with naming.

I'd much rather something like 'Bay Area' or 'Klang Valley' or 'Ruhrgebiet' so that we could describe Sydney, Parramatta etc separately if we could only find a name for the area. Sandstone Belt? MidCoast? The Conurbation?
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Old June 15th, 2015, 11:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eco-rat View Post
I'd much rather something like 'Bay Area' or 'Klang Valley' or 'Ruhrgebiet' so that we could describe Sydney, Parramatta etc separately if we could only find a name for the area. Sandstone Belt? MidCoast? The Conurbation?
Technically it should be 'Cumberland Plain', although that's a terrible name
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Old June 15th, 2015, 01:41 PM   #15
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Part 3 of my blog post series on Olympic Park corridor:

http://sydneyprop.blogspot.com.au/20...-high-bus.html

* Some must have forgotten to tell TfNSW that Olympic park light rail is "white elephant"
* Olympic park has barely scratched surface of it's potential and already is very high bus patronage
* TfNSW are adding over 300 new Strathfield to Olympic Park bus services starting in June
* Strathfield to OP has 2x the bus use intensity of Parra to MacPark during weekdays (and wins hands down on weekends with special events)

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Old June 15th, 2015, 01:52 PM   #16
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Why wouldn't people just change at Lidcombe for the Olympic Park Line ?! :S
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Old June 15th, 2015, 02:05 PM   #17
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The branch to Rhodes is what really makes this the right choice to me. Wentworth Point needs some form of mass transit if it wants to become the densest suburb in Sydney. Providing a better connection from Rhodes, SOP, and Carter St to the new school at WP couldn't hurt either.
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Old June 15th, 2015, 02:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyllip View Post
Why wouldn't people just change at Lidcombe for the Olympic Park Line ?! :S
I can imagine for any of these reasons:
* coming from city direction
* limited rail service frequency due to single track Olympic line
* coming from rail lines that don't service lidcombe
* coming from another bus service and interchanging at strathfield
* going to other destination along the Olympic corridor other than Olympic Park station

Also need to think from bidirectional perspective, ie: which station would a resident living in the OP corridor heading out from home in the AM peak choose? Strathfield is a better interchange station than Lidcombe, as it can reach a wider set of destinations.

Last edited by xfung; June 15th, 2015 at 04:33 PM.
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Old June 15th, 2015, 05:04 PM   #19
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Regarding the Strathfield light rail stop. I don't really think the idea of having a car-only "tunnel" space really works.

What I'm actually wondering is whether its possible to build a new level over the top of the station which would then be the pedestrian space, more cafes etc.
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Old June 17th, 2015, 12:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomwhoosh View Post
Regarding the Strathfield light rail stop. I don't really think the idea of having a car-only "tunnel" space really works.

What I'm actually wondering is whether its possible to build a new level over the top of the station which would then be the pedestrian space, more cafes etc.
I'm not sure if heritage issues could be a stumbling block to having elevated light rail platform:

Strathfield Railway Station is of State significance as it is an excellent example of a large suburban station complex which presents a stylistic coherence across its structures and which date mostly from the same time period. Its unique and distinctive long, high canopies, standing on all four island platforms are supported on decorative steel arched trusses and elaborate cast iron columns, and fringed with the delicate timber valances, combine with the sweeping curve of the platforms, to create a high level of aesthetic design. The utilitarian face brick parcels office with its cantilevered canopy and terracotta gabled roof remains essentially as it was built, and extends the aesthetic pattern established for the platform buildings under the canopies. The signal box to the west on Albert Street with its Dutch gable roof is representative of this type of structure, but at Strathfield is distinctive for being a larger three level structure which demonstrates the importance of Strathfield as a major junction station.

The site of the railway station is historically significant, being one of the early stations built in 1876, on the Main Western Line, constructed to provide connection to Parramatta and the regions beyond. It became a major junction station in 1886, when the Main Northern Line was constructed and linked with the Main Western Line at Strathfield. The present station is significant for being completely rebuilt in 1927 as a full scale suburban station, catering for local as well as regional passengers, and being associated with the electrification of the suburban network in the 1920s.
Date significance updated: 14 Jul 09
Note: There are incomplete details for a number of items listed in NSW. The Heritage Branch intends to develop or upgrade statements of significance and other information for these items as resources become available.
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