search the site
 daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > OZScrapers > Urban Spaces > Transportation

Transportation Trains, planes and automobiles.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 5th, 2007, 01:18 PM   #61
historyworks
Perpetual Bohemian
 
historyworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,364
Likes (Received): 313


Fabian the private Manly ferries were very well run but what had been happening since the 1950s was that the service was being assailed by the increased use of motor vehicles and competition from the govt's own bus services. The service was losing its economic viability and the company was trying to get the govt to take it over since the 1950s. The govt turned its back and didn't want to know about it and so a private company was left subsidising a public service. At the same time the company was left without the financial ability to buy new displacement hulled vessels but they did make the enterprising move of introducing hydrofoils to try to recapture patronage.

All this time the people of Manly who "wanted" the service so much increasingly turned their backs on it by not using it.

In the end the company had to survive by investing in new areas of (non-ferry) business and became profitable again. This attracted the takeover by Brambles who ruthlessly did what the company had been trying to do since 1950 - made the govt pay attention and forced its hand. This whole 25 year episode (not just 60s and 70s) was not a failure of private enterprise but a failure of govt to manage Sydney's public transport effectively.

If anything the Manly ferry demonstrated the inability of govt to manage a ferry service. Privatisation won't threaten the Manly service, the biggest threat is from Manly people thenselves who prefer to use their cars because their destinations are far and wide. The Sydney CBD now has only about 13% of the Sydney basin worksforce. There is a diminishing role for ferries for commuting but still a big role of recreation. A private operator will be more skilled at handling that balance.
historyworks no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 5th, 2007, 02:35 PM   #62
Sunbus610
TRANSLink commuter
 
Sunbus610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisbane North and Sunshine Coast, QLD
Posts: 218
Likes (Received): 11

Melbourne might have her trams but Sydney's sure got her ferries.

Below is an old UTA brochure I found in my collection on Sydney Ferries, it's got a nice photo of a hydrofoil travelling along at a nice speed. Pity they had mechanical problems with the hydrofoils and ended up eventually getting rid of them.

A paragraph from the history link below:-
In 1965 the company introduced hydrofoils to Sydney Harbour to provide a high-speed service to Manly in an attempt to boost revenue. While they proved popular, their lack of mechanical reliability lead to their demise and they were replaced by the JetCats in the early 1990s.

A brief history of Sydney’s Ferries

Apologies for the crappy scanner of mine



An old B&W photo showing a pair of Sydney’s Hydrofoils

Last edited by Sunbus610; November 5th, 2007 at 03:08 PM.
Sunbus610 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 5th, 2007, 03:47 PM   #63
historyworks
Perpetual Bohemian
 
historyworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,364
Likes (Received): 313

Sunbus the lack of mechanical "reliability" of hydrofoils only emerged under govt ownership, just like some Sydney buses were unreliable under govt ownership but were mysteriously quite satisfactory for private operators. The jetcats funnily enough also developed "reliability" problems. The bad workman blames his tools. The public service was quite good at running a business up to about 50 years ago but no longer I'm afraid.
historyworks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 04:35 AM   #64
Joelby
dink!
 
Joelby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 2,124
Likes (Received): 460

I think any company that takes over the ferries should bring back those hydrofoils. They were fecking COOL!
__________________
Shameless self promotion
Joelby no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 08:24 AM   #65
hornetfig
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sydney...
Posts: 3,849

Quote:
Originally Posted by historyworks View Post
just like some Sydney buses were unreliable under govt ownership but were mysteriously quite satisfactory for private operators.
What buses would these be? Leyland Atlanteans? Flogged off early because no satisfactory way of using them was ever agreed upon with the Union.

Other vehicles sold early (some Leyland Leopards, Mk I Mercedes O305s) were merely from an ill-conceived fleet downsizing...
hornetfig no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 10:08 AM   #66
historyworks
Perpetual Bohemian
 
historyworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,364
Likes (Received): 313

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetfig View Post
What buses would these be? Leyland Atlanteans? Flogged off early because no satisfactory way of using them was ever agreed upon with the Union.

Other vehicles sold early (some Leyland Leopards, Mk I Mercedes O305s) were merely from an ill-conceived fleet downsizing...
No it was mechanical issues not operational. Leylands generally were blamed by the govt's spin doctors for unreliability issues when in fact it was the PTC's maintenance practices that were at issue. The change to Mercs was the "solution" - too long ago to remember clearly but I think the real solution in fact was that Merc (or supplier) took over maintenance from the PTC. Meanwhile a number of private operators spoke out in support of their Leyland buses which they were quite happy with.

Train maintenance is now also contracted out to a private company. It all adds up towards the theme in this thread that govt ownership isn't necessarily the best thing for public transport. It used to be, 50 and more years ago, but no longer. And it has never worked for ferries.
historyworks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2007, 04:02 AM   #67
joninbrisbane
The Delivery Guy
 
joninbrisbane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,407
Likes (Received): 23

The ferries in Brisbane are run by a private company (MetroLink QLD) and are very well run.
joninbrisbane no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2007, 10:24 PM   #68
Fabian
Sydney: World's best city
 
Fabian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 40,756

The government is proposing the to adopt the Brisbane model, which from experience I found to be a very good and affordable service. It's highly unlikely that the service will be as affordable as in the past.
__________________
Find out why Sydney has become the city that it is today:

Fab Sydney Flashbacks
Fabian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2007, 02:46 PM   #69
RSG
Registered User
 
RSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 511
Likes (Received): 4

What about this for an idea. Sydney Ferries could recieve extra income by using the ferries as a floating bilboard

__________________
If we act like it matters, and it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter...
but if we act like it doesn't matter and it matters, then it matters.
RSG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2007, 11:56 PM   #70
historyworks
Perpetual Bohemian
 
historyworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,364
Likes (Received): 313

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSG View Post
What about this for an idea. Sydney Ferries could recieve extra income by using the ferries as a floating bilboard
Is that Andros? Looks familiar? I could imagine all the indignation from the Sydney Morning Herald etc. Visual pollution on Sydney Harbour!!
__________________
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
historyworks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2007, 03:07 AM   #71
RSG
Registered User
 
RSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 511
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by historyworks View Post
Is that Andros? Looks familiar? I could imagine all the indignation from the Sydney Morning Herald etc. Visual pollution on Sydney Harbour!!
No. Its the port of Piraeus in Greece.
__________________
If we act like it matters, and it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter...
but if we act like it doesn't matter and it matters, then it matters.
RSG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2007, 03:35 AM   #72
Fabian
Sydney: World's best city
 
Fabian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 40,756

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSG View Post
What about this for an idea. Sydney Ferries could recieve extra income by using the ferries as a floating bilboard

I havent seen much advertising inside the ferries. The Jetcats have them in their interior. That would work too.
__________________
Find out why Sydney has become the city that it is today:

Fab Sydney Flashbacks
Fabian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 18th, 2007, 10:59 PM   #73
Fabian
Sydney: World's best city
 
Fabian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 40,756

There will be a stop work meeting at 9am for those working on the Manly run and will affect Manly-Circular Quay services. This is due to proposals to privitise the service.
__________________
Find out why Sydney has become the city that it is today:

Fab Sydney Flashbacks
Fabian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 19th, 2007, 06:46 AM   #74
BroadGauge
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,298
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by historyworks View Post
Train maintenance is now also contracted out to a private company. It all adds up towards the theme in this thread that govt ownership isn't necessarily the best thing for public transport. It used to be, 50 and more years ago, but no longer. And it has never worked for ferries.
Hornsby, Flemington and Mortdale Maintenance Centres are all operated by RailCorp. However Maintrain at Auburn which does major overhauls etc is operated by a private operator. The only trains that aren't maintained by RailCorp are the M sets and OSCars. Anybody else noticed how much cleaner the Millennium trains always are compared to the rest of the system?
BroadGauge no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2008, 09:48 PM   #75
Fabian
Sydney: World's best city
 
Fabian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 40,756

Jetcat services will be ditched following the mini budget. Manly locals wont be impressed. Fares will rise by 50 cents from January 1.
__________________
Find out why Sydney has become the city that it is today:

Fab Sydney Flashbacks
Fabian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2008, 05:16 PM   #76
Justme
Gotta lite?
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester (Forecast: Rain)
Posts: 4,930
Likes (Received): 741

So will there only be the half hourly standard ferries?
__________________
I'm doing my bit to save bandwidth by deleting my signature
Justme no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2008, 09:57 PM   #77
Fabian
Sydney: World's best city
 
Fabian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 40,756

Yes. Locals arent impressed. They feel like the suburb has shifted 10km further north.
__________________
Find out why Sydney has become the city that it is today:

Fab Sydney Flashbacks
Fabian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2008, 10:42 PM   #78
Ipggi
Here
 
Ipggi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Puritan Sydney
Posts: 6,576
Likes (Received): 516

Maybe they should just charge a $46 ticket price per trip or whatever the current cost is for the current Jetcat services?
Ipggi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2008, 11:41 PM   #79
LanceDriver
70's porn star
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 6,729
Likes (Received): 254

that's the price to pay for being blue ribbon!
LanceDriver no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2008, 01:17 AM   #80
Fabian
Sydney: World's best city
 
Fabian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 40,756

The Palm Beach Ferry service is looking at taking over jetcat services and would be prepared to start on January 1 according to The Manly Daily.

Meanwhile Manly residents with the support of Manly MP Mike Baird have formed a group in response to recent concerns with the ferries known as Fix Our Ferries and will lobby to save the Jetcat service.
__________________
Find out why Sydney has become the city that it is today:

Fab Sydney Flashbacks
Fabian no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu