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Old November 13th, 2008, 02:43 AM   #81
zach24
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NSW politics is starting to feel like a very bad dream… As such, I’m looking forward to 2011 where the ALP will no longer fulfil the requirements for party status in parliament.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 03:31 AM   #82
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Quote:
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Meanwhile Manly residents with the support of Manly MP Mike Baird have formed a group in response to recent concerns with the ferries known as Fix Our Ferries and will lobby to save the Jetcat service.
Presumably the same residents that don't use those services now?
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Old November 13th, 2008, 11:47 AM   #83
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NSW politics is starting to feel like a very bad dream… As such, I’m looking forward to 2011 where the ALP will no longer fulfil the requirements for party status in parliament.
Not coming to Macquarie Street on Wednesday to demand the government cause an election?
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Old November 13th, 2008, 02:48 PM   #84
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Quote:
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So will there only be the half hourly standard ferries?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydney Ferries Website
To cater for customer demand, from Saturday, 20 December 2008 until 26 January inclusive, additional Manly Ferry services will operate at approximately 20 minute intervals.
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Old November 13th, 2008, 09:51 PM   #85
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They do that every summer to cater for increased numbers of visitors going to Manly.
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Old November 14th, 2008, 06:50 AM   #86
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Do ferries in Sydney, for the large subsidies given to them, actually perform much of a genuine public transport function? What's the modal share for ferries out of PT trips - 1%?

As to those wanting the Jetcats saved - cry me a river. Pay the full cost or shut up.
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Old November 14th, 2008, 06:59 AM   #87
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^ well how about you pay the full cost of a train ticket or a bus ticket? Oh that's right you probably live in the western suburbs...
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Old November 14th, 2008, 07:08 AM   #88
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Quote:
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Oh that's right you probably live in the western suburbs...
Lol - like I'd live in any capital city.

You don't need two competing ferry routes between the two points - and especially not one that is a premium service competing with the main full-time service, carrying few people and demanding a higher per-pax subsidy.

If 'Palm Beach Ferries' can make the Manly-Circ Quay Jetcat run pay dividends for them, good on them.
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Old November 14th, 2008, 08:39 AM   #89
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Do ferries in Sydney, for the large subsidies given to them, actually perform much of a genuine public transport function? What's the modal share for ferries out of PT trips - 1%?

As to those wanting the Jetcats saved - cry me a river. Pay the full cost or shut up.
There is about 14 million trips made on Sydney Ferries. Of those those 25% are tourist trips.

This is from the 2006-7 annual report.

Total revenue for the year was $119.9 million. Farebox revenue contributed $48 million and government funding, $71.2 million. Other income of $0.70 million was achieved from commission on sale of tickets and other sundry revenue. Farebox revenue was $2.7 million more than in 2005–06. During the year, the NSW Government contributed an additional $27 million in funding to enable Sydney Ferries to implement measures aimed at enhancing safety, vessel availability and service reliability and reduce its short term debt accumulated over two financial years.
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Old November 15th, 2008, 05:05 AM   #90
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I have always supported a public ferry service to Manly, and the Freshwater Class ferries and it's predcessors have done a good job in transporting the masses out of the Manly Peninsula.

While the Jetcats are great to ride on, they are not economical to run given the short distance they travel and the upkeep. The hydrofoils also had similar problems to the jetcats, one of them included the time it takes for them to turn around upon reaching Manly or Circular Quay.

In the old days, the old ferries could carry up to 1700 people and even provided entertainment on board and they were packed.

It wont be the end of the world for Manly with the jetcats being axed. They still have a popular ferry service. Though slower it moves people in large numbers. Compared to the time it would take by road to travel from Manly to the Sydney CBD, there is no difference in travel times as motorists have to battle the gridlock on Military Rd and the Spit Bridge. Manly wont be any further either.

If I was a resident of Manly, I'd use the normal service because its cheaper and really the service is no different apart from the trip taking longer. At least it gives me time to read a book or the paper.

And why cannot they consider adding an extra service or two during peak hour. The jetcat berth can always be used by a normal ferry.
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Old November 15th, 2008, 07:12 AM   #91
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Sorry I want the jetcat back, they are one of the hottest crafts on the harbour and now all we will be left with is those ugly old ferries ... I ******* love listening to them shoot aover the harbour watching them from georges heights.

Get ****ed rees I hope you get hit by a truck ****witt. My blood is boiling more than ever with the decisions they are making. This government is running this city well and truely into the shit.
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Old November 16th, 2008, 12:17 AM   #92
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I will admit that they are great to photograph in action. I might have some time later this week to take some photos of our ferries around Bennelong Point and Circular Quay.

Avatar, Mike Baird has indicated that he is trying to make arrangements to ensure that the Palm Beach Ferry Service can continue the service from January 1 as a temporary arrangement and then put the service out to tender.

If a private company feels that they can run the service and make a profit on it. Good on them. I wont object to it.
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Old November 16th, 2008, 12:42 AM   #93
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Quote:
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Do ferries in Sydney, for the large subsidies given to them, actually perform much of a genuine public transport function? What's the modal share for ferries out of PT trips - 1%?

As to those wanting the Jetcats saved - cry me a river. Pay the full cost or shut up.
Leaving aside for a moment the issue that your general philosophies could justify getting rid of all public transport whatsoever Mr Warren Centre , the answer to your question is that ferries (excepting Manly) no longer serve a fundamentally essential role in Sydney PT. They really just fill the gaps where the land transport systems fall a little short.

The conventional Manly ferry (leaving aside the jetcats) has always had patronage justification, and, to a far smaller extent, any service to peninsular areas (Balmain, Mosman), where the land journey involves some backtracking, do have some validity. But really, rather than being publicly subsidised, the smaller ferry runs should be left to private enterprise to make a fist of. If they don't succeed then that answers the question. The Manly ferry should have a private operator but I think it is in the overall public interest to have the - in this case more costly - fleet acquisitions underwritten (just as the govt provides roads for cars and buses, to put some limits on hypocrisy). Jetcats/hydrofoils are really a premium service and should be charged for at cost as they originally were.

Ironic that the former manly ferry company started and ran the Palm Beach ferry company - now the shoe may be on the other foot!
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Old November 16th, 2008, 05:37 AM   #94
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If the Palm Beach Ferry Company ends up with the high speed run they are likely to use these ferries, even though there are concerns about their ability to cater for commuters

Fantasea Crystal - capacity 222 (30 fewer than the jetcat)



Fantasea Spirit - same capacity



They are not old either coming into service in 2002-03.
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Old November 16th, 2008, 10:28 AM   #95
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Quote:
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Leaving aside for a moment the issue that your general philosophies could justify getting rid of all public transport whatsoever Mr Warren Centre
I'm not that harsh Tony

Quote:
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the answer to your question is that ferries (excepting Manly) no longer serve a fundamentally essential role in Sydney PT. They really just fill the gaps where the land transport systems fall a little short.

The conventional Manly ferry (leaving aside the jetcats) has always had patronage justification, and, to a far smaller extent, any service to peninsular areas (Balmain, Mosman), where the land journey involves some backtracking, do have some validity.
Believe it or not, I do actually agree with you that the ferry does the Circular Quay to Manly run better than a bus making it's way down Military Rd and The Spit could

In terms of the other runs - yes, I agree that the private sector could take them over, rather than them being subsidised as regular public transport.

The NSW Government doesn't really have welfare justification for providing most of these services - like look at the Watsons Bay run, it has much more frequent STA buses serving the same areas.
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Old November 16th, 2008, 10:40 AM   #96
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The other factor I forgot to mention with the inner harbour services is that they serve very wealthy areas. Areas with users who can well afford the luxury of a nice quick boat into town. Double Bay, Rose Bay, Cremorne, Hunters Hill, they're all convenient by boat but don't really warrant a state subsidy, possibly not even integrated fares. The private sector will do what it can best here as it always did in the past (as long as some idiots in govt don't decide to charge them gold bullion for wharf access).
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Old November 17th, 2008, 02:31 AM   #97
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Buses have been a threat to Manly services for years as well. Express buses to the city operate from suburbs within the catchment area such as Brookvale, Balgowlah, Fairlight, Freshwater and Curl Curl.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 03:12 AM   #98
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Buses have been a threat to Manly services for years as well. Express buses to the city operate from suburbs within the catchment area such as Brookvale, Balgowlah, Fairlight, Freshwater and Curl Curl.
That's been going on since 1940 and that catchment shrunk from those areas long ago. The catchment now is basically Manly itself.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 04:53 AM   #99
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And the construction of the current Spit bridge made it quicker for people to drive into town and faster buses. From those areas it is quicker to take a bus.
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Old November 17th, 2008, 09:09 AM   #100
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Fantasea Crystal - capacity 222 (30 fewer than the jetcat)



Fantasea Spirit - same capacity



They are not old either coming into service in 2002-03.
not these

The beautiful jetcats will probably disappear from sydney and Australia never to be seen again. I guess they will find a new home in Hong Kong or the Med. **** I hate our state and our country.

They can't take our flagships away
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Last edited by Avatar; November 17th, 2008 at 09:15 AM.
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