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Old Yesterday, 06:59 PM   #19341
rocanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan's Finest View Post
Suddenly that future-proofing 400 km/h (248mph) infrastructure capability doesn't seem such a huge leap of faith. Especially in a world where Bugatti already 'limit' the road legal version of their Chiron model to 261mph! The train at least will be an order of magnitude safer at such high speeds.
In 200 mph collisions, the survivability for drivers in HS2, or Bugatti, would be minimal.
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Old Yesterday, 07:29 PM   #19342
Salif
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How many trains in Europe have crashed on a high speed line? I can only think of a Eurostar train which derailed at 300km/h in Northern France and yet stayed upright. I think it's the Japanese who came up with the philosophy of focusing on avoiding crashes ahead of trying to make them stand up to one. I don't think it's too much of a stretch that such an excellent safety record can stand up to speed increases.
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Old Yesterday, 09:58 PM   #19343
ps60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salif View Post
How many trains in Europe have crashed on a high speed line? I can only think of a Eurostar train which derailed at 300km/h in Northern France and yet stayed upright. I think it's the Japanese who came up with the philosophy of focusing on avoiding crashes ahead of trying to make them stand up to one. I don't think it's too much of a stretch that such an excellent safety record can stand up to speed increases.
Rocanon's an anti who is trolling as usual. And Merswy agrees with him as usual. Its yet another manifestation of anti-Manchesterism from Liverpool forumers.
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Old Today, 12:43 AM   #19344
Vulcan's Finest
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Originally Posted by rocanon View Post
In 200 mph collisions, the survivability for drivers in HS2, or Bugatti, would be minimal.
Care to dredge that miserable anti public transport blogsite of yours to see if the stats for dead supercar drivers are available? I strongly suspect that the drivers of high-speed trains tend to live a lot longer on average.

Of course this is also a good opportunity to point out that all forms of railway in the UK are an order of magnitude safer than any type of road transport. Those who continually snipe and whinge about rail spending are clearly ignorant of that basic fact.

Quote:
In reported UK road traffic accidents in 2015:
road deaths decreased by 2% compared with 2014, falling to 1,732.
the number of people seriously injured decreased by 3% to 22,137.
there were a total of 186,209 casualties of all severities.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...n-results-2015
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Old Today, 01:02 AM   #19345
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'anti-Manchesterism'? That's a strange way to portray opposition to one city being unduly privileged by a remote and foolish government, regardless of the consequences for the wider region. I am not 'against' Manchester if I simply oppose it being artificially engorged by prejudiced decision makers. Manchester is what it is.
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Old Today, 02:46 AM   #19346
Negjana
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Boohooohooooooooo!
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Old Today, 03:49 AM   #19347
Vulcan's Finest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merswy View Post
'anti-Manchesterism'? That's a strange way to portray opposition to one city being unduly privileged by a remote and foolish government, regardless of the consequences for the wider region. I am not 'against' Manchester if I simply oppose it being artificially engorged by prejudiced decision makers. Manchester is what it is.
I take it then you were unaware that the person who's post you rushed to like is the total opposite of friendly towards Liverpool? Or do you not have any standards?

Rocanon is (apparently) the writer of the ultra-cynical 'Beleben blog'. A peculiar (foreigner hating) libertarian blogger who absolutely loathes the thought of spending a single penny improving the public transport infrastructure serving Liverpool. You won't find anything positive being said about your city or representatives in that blog. A few examples of the pearls of wisdom he has shared with us all....

Rubbishing the HSRLL report:

Quote:
"Although it is a piece of advocacy (produced by Steer Davies Gleave for the City Region), it does not make a very good case for building a dedicated high line into Liverpool. Consider, for example, the GVA figures presented for building, and not building, captive track.

The hugely expensive HS2 dedicated tunnel into Manchester (which is part of the government’s preferred scheme), would only carry 3 London trains each hour. Its value for money looks just as questionable as the Liverpool captive spur."
Rubbishing 20MM's claims....

Quote:
"According to the 20 Miles More campaign, a dedicated HS2 link to Liverpool would cost between £1.5 and £1.9 billion; but they have not provided a breakdown of the figures.

If Merseyside intercity trains were moved onto a dedicated HS2 route into Liverpool, it is difficult to see..... how 400-metre trains, presumably stopping only at Bickenhill, could be filled.

In any event, the released capacity from moving just one train each hour off the Liverpool to Crewe line, is not going to be worth anything like £1,500 million".
Beleben wants the rail links to Manchester to remain with steam-age timings....

Quote:
"Current fast trains between Manchester and Liverpool complete the journey in around 32 minutes, and the cost of a new line to cut that “by 50%” would be enormous. Councillor Robinson’s “aim” looks like a vanity project in the same vein as the proposed Manchester to Leeds ‘HS3’."
Beleben really, really doesn't think that Liverpool is worthy of a HSR link to anywhere, ever! In fact he clearly thinks Scousers are crazy! Not a very nice man is he?

Quote:
"Linking Liverpool are continuing to claim there are tens of thousands of people who can’t be bothered to visit the city now, but who would visit if the (London) journey time was all of 24 minutes shorter. Altogether, these ‘easily distracted’ visitors would make three quarters of a million trips to Liverpool.

So, the usual crazy nonsense. In the view of the Beleben blog, the capital cost of extending HS2 into Liverpool Lime Street would be around £4,000 million. If the Liverpool HS2 spur was also used to run ‘HS3’ trains to Manchester, there would be further costs on top".
There is plenty more of this kind of reactionary nonsense to be found in that blog.
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Old Today, 07:51 AM   #19348
ps60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan's Finest View Post
I take it then you were unaware that the person who's post you rushed to like is the total opposite of friendly towards Liverpool? Or do you not have any standards?

Rocanon is (apparently) the writer of the ultra-cynical 'Beleben blog'. A peculiar (foreigner hating) libertarian blogger who absolutely loathes the thought of spending a single penny improving the public transport infrastructure serving Liverpool. You won't find anything positive being said about your city or representatives in that blog. A few examples of the pearls of wisdom he has shared with us all....

Rubbishing the HSRLL report:



Rubbishing 20MM's claims....



Beleben wants the rail links to Manchester to remain with steam-age timings....



Beleben really, really doesn't think that Liverpool is worthy of a HSR link to anywhere, ever! In fact he clearly thinks Scousers are crazy! Not a very nice man is he?



There is plenty more of this kind of reactionary nonsense to be found in that blog.
If a person's anti-Manchester, that seems to be good enough for some.
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Old Today, 02:32 PM   #19349
Jamandell (d69)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salif View Post
How many trains in Europe have crashed on a high speed line? I can only think of a Eurostar train which derailed at 300km/h in Northern France and yet stayed upright. I think it's the Japanese who came up with the philosophy of focusing on avoiding crashes ahead of trying to make them stand up to one. I don't think it's too much of a stretch that such an excellent safety record can stand up to speed increases.
There was this horrific high speed derailment in Spain in 2013 which killed 78

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Old Today, 02:34 PM   #19350
potto
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And that train crash in Germany in the 90s
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Old Today, 02:50 PM   #19351
Salif
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Were those actually on high speed lines though? That Spanish train was on a tight curve on a low speed section of track. And that Germany crash was on a classic line if I remember correctly.

Last edited by Salif; Today at 02:57 PM.
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Old Today, 03:37 PM   #19352
Sesquip
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The German one was a fault with the train though, so quite independent of the line it was on (an "upgraded" line with 125-140mph limits). But a train designed back in the 80s, with the retro-fitted wheels' design flaw untested.
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Old Today, 04:08 PM   #19353
Negjana
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125mph, not 140mph.
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Old Today, 04:46 PM   #19354
ps60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamandell (d69) View Post
There was this horrific high speed derailment in Spain in 2013 which killed 78

That happened on a 60 mph section of classic line. There have been no fatalities on the French TGV system in the 34 years it has been open. It isn't as if there have never been any fatalities on our classic lines. Heathrow Express springs to mind, so does Hatfield and Colwich, and most accidents are caused by carelessness - either driver error, poor trackwork or poor wiring of signals.
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Last edited by ps60; Today at 05:00 PM.
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