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Old December 7th, 2008, 11:34 PM   #6801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k25150 View Post
You call that a lot of progress for 19 months! Get real guys and stop being cheerleaders for the political and bureaucratic nightmare that is the WTC site. What a joke.
only joke here is you buddy now here's me laughing in your face
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Old December 8th, 2008, 05:57 AM   #6802
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Originally Posted by k25150 View Post
You call that a lot of progress for 19 months! Get real guys and stop being cheerleaders for the political and bureaucratic nightmare that is the WTC site. What a joke.
It's only a joke for those who demonstrate a complete ignorance of how such projects work. The WTC is the most complex project under development today.

First, you're building in New York City, the densest real estate in the nation. My father used to work for the state's Department of Transportation, and all of the jobs in the city took four times as long and cost ten times as much as the project's equivalent in upstate. You spend as much time constructing temporary roads, walkways and bridges to keep this mass of pedestrians and vehicles moving smoothly as you do on the core project being built.

Next, consider the Ground Zero site itself: a politically sensitive pit covering just a few square blocks that up until recently still had to go through an exhaustive search for human remains with each new excavation. As more of the pit was unearthed, the slurry walls that hold back the Hudson River, pushed nearly to their breaking point by the catastrophic damage of 9/11, had to be systematically replaced before any further construction could continue.

All of this just brings us to an empty pit in the ground. But two years after the attacks, the Port Authority built a "temporary" transit hub to restore vital transportation lines knocked out by the terrorist attacks. This includes the busiest station in that PATH system along with two subway lines. All of the construction that has followed has had to work around a very active rail hub with active lines running through all sections of the site. The biggest delay for the Freedom Tower, for instance, is that work can only happen while the subway line that runs through its foundation is not operating. Close the hub for the remainder of construction, and you'd hear people bitching about more than things taking too long.

With all of that being considered, you still have a construction project that will cram into a few city blocks:
  • Five major skyscrapers with office space equivalent to all of downtown Atlanta, which mixes private- and public-sector development
  • A museum and a memorial of unparalleled scope.
  • Extensive reworking of the city's third largest transportation hub, after Penn Station and Grand Central Terminal
  • A significant subterranean retail footprint
  • An underground vehicle security center that will screen all vehicles into the site, with a Greek Orthodox Church to be built directly above
  • Two new streets
  • A performing arts center
  • The utilities and infrastructure to accommodate all of that
Meanwhile, the project involves 19 public agencies, two private developers, 101 contractors and sub-contractors (with some contracts yet to be bid) and 33 architects and design firms. Because everything's meshed so closely together, if any one of those players messes up, it reverberates through the rest of the project.

Yes, the original World Trade Center didn't take this long to be built. But it was working with a clean slate, with no greater symbolic significance, under looser regulations and building codes which permitted shortcuts in the building design that contributed to the devastation of that day.

Yes, China builds bigger, bolder and faster these days. But as we saw this yeah when the Sichuan earthquake collapsed newer public buildings like schools while older buildings remained standing, faster is not always better. Better to do it cautious and do it right.
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Old December 8th, 2008, 06:38 AM   #6803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam-albany View Post
It's only a joke for those who demonstrate a complete ignorance of how such projects work. The WTC is the most complex project under development today.

First, you're building in New York City, the densest real estate in the nation. My father used to work for the state's Department of Transportation, and all of the jobs in the city took four times as long and cost ten times as much as the project's equivalent in upstate. You spend as much time constructing temporary roads, walkways and bridges to keep this mass of pedestrians and vehicles moving smoothly as you do on the core project being built.

Next, consider the Ground Zero site itself: a politically sensitive pit covering just a few square blocks that up until recently still had to go through an exhaustive search for human remains with each new excavation. As more of the pit was unearthed, the slurry walls that hold back the Hudson River, pushed nearly to their breaking point by the catastrophic damage of 9/11, had to be systematically replaced before any further construction could continue.

All of this just brings us to an empty pit in the ground. But two years after the attacks, the Port Authority built a "temporary" transit hub to restore vital transportation lines knocked out by the terrorist attacks. This includes the busiest station in that PATH system along with two subway lines. All of the construction that has followed has had to work around a very active rail hub with active lines running through all sections of the site. The biggest delay for the Freedom Tower, for instance, is that work can only happen while the subway line that runs through its foundation is not operating. Close the hub for the remainder of construction, and you'd hear people bitching about more than things taking too long.

With all of that being considered, you still have a construction project that will cram into a few city blocks:
  • Five major skyscrapers with office space equivalent to all of downtown Atlanta, which mixes private- and public-sector development
  • A museum and a memorial of unparalleled scope.
  • Extensive reworking of the city's third largest transportation hub, after Penn Station and Grand Central Terminal
  • A significant subterranean retail footprint
  • An underground vehicle security center that will screen all vehicles into the site, with a Greek Orthodox Church to be built directly above
  • Two new streets
  • A performing arts center
  • The utilities and infrastructure to accommodate all of that
Meanwhile, the project involves 19 public agencies, two private developers, 101 contractors and sub-contractors (with some contracts yet to be bid) and 33 architects and design firms. Because everything's meshed so closely together, if any one of those players messes up, it reverberates through the rest of the project.

Yes, the original World Trade Center didn't take this long to be built. But it was working with a clean slate, with no greater symbolic significance, under looser regulations and building codes which permitted shortcuts in the building design that contributed to the devastation of that day.

Yes, China builds bigger, bolder and faster these days. But as we saw this yeah when the Sichuan earthquake collapsed newer public buildings like schools while older buildings remained standing, faster is not always better. Better to do it cautious and do it right.
Cheers! While all of those are extremely valid and truthful reasons, I believe that our annoyance with the lenghth of time this is taking has more to do with symbolism than everything else. The fact that almost a decade after the atacks, the site is still basically a hole in the ground, and politics and interest groups have gotten in the way of things. What was supposed to be a testament to American endurance and fortitude has instead become more of a symbol of American bickering, and politics.

Plus, a lot of people dont like thew design. I like 1wtc, but some of the other ones look out of place and strange.
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Old December 8th, 2008, 06:59 PM   #6804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam-albany View Post
...An underground vehicle security center that will screen all vehicles into the site, with a Greek Orthodox Church to be built directly above...
Are you talkin' about the small greek church in the shade of old twin towers?
This is good...
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Old December 8th, 2008, 07:15 PM   #6805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiki24 View Post
Cheers! While all of those are extremely valid and truthful reasons, I believe that our annoyance with the lenghth of time this is taking has more to do with symbolism than everything else. The fact that almost a decade after the atacks, the site is still basically a hole in the ground, and politics and interest groups have gotten in the way of things. What was supposed to be a testament to American endurance and fortitude has instead become more of a symbol of American bickering, and politics.
That's fair. I appreciate you making your argument respectfully. The biggest time lost was during the first four or so years, when they went into the project without a clear plan of action. The last three years or so have proceeded as fast as is feasible, though. It's just a massive, massive project.
Quote:
Originally Posted by christos-greece View Post
Are you talkin' about the small greek church in the shade of old twin towers?
This is good...
Yes, St. Nicholas Greek Church. Resolving the key stumbling blocks between the Port Authority and the church's board was one of the key stumbling blocks that delayed work on that side of the site. The New York Times had a great article about the church this week, “Faith and Frustration at Ground Zero”. I'd recommend checking it out if you're interested.
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Old December 9th, 2008, 12:53 PM   #6806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sämelihülz View Post
now I understand, why there isn't any progress to see!



The workers are doing a break!
same thing caught my eye. Many workers standing around and waiting that "their" work comes.
7 in this pic



and 6 here
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Old December 9th, 2008, 06:34 PM   #6807
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They wait for something “big”
Some truck crane that transports enormous metal joists in the site...


Quote:
Originally Posted by adam-albany View Post
Yes, St. Nicholas Greek Church. Resolving the key stumbling blocks between the Port Authority and the church's board was one of the key stumbling blocks that delayed work on that side of the site. The New York Times had a great article about the church this week, “Faith and Frustration at Ground Zero”. I'd recommend checking it out if you're interested.
Thanks for the info and for the site
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Old December 9th, 2008, 06:51 PM   #6808
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is it me or one side of north core went up?

nm looks like it's been like that for while
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Old December 9th, 2008, 06:56 PM   #6809
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The are pouring floor over what appears to be the PATH tunnel.
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Old December 9th, 2008, 07:09 PM   #6810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webeagle12 View Post
is it me or one side of north core went up?

nm looks like it's been like that for while
no nothing's gone up, the north core hasn't done that for the past how many ever months.
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Old December 9th, 2008, 10:34 PM   #6811
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yes, but they poured the next floor already...maybe they've to lift the crane before they can lift the formwork to the next floor
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Old December 10th, 2008, 02:10 AM   #6812
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I'll get photos tomorrow.

- A
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Old December 10th, 2008, 07:09 AM   #6813
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They are going to remove the ramp later this week according to the NY Times.
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Old December 10th, 2008, 07:17 AM   #6814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
They are going to remove the ramp later this week according to the NY Times.
Here's the article:
“Dismantling Ground Zero’s Bridge to Bedrock”

The same author posted another article concerning the site today:
“Ground Zero, Gift-Wrapped for the Holidays”
It sounds like the dismantling of the Deutsche Bank building has begun again.

Also, get updates regarding progress on your cellular phone, PDA, pager, or e-mail account from the Port Authority:
Port Authority WTC Updates
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Old December 10th, 2008, 09:45 AM   #6815
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I have no problem with the time scale of this project or Projects. Allot of work had to be done to the "Bath Tub" after all the debris was taken away, and it had to all be cleared in a taste full manor to honor the dead. Now the Main tower is rising and im happy.
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Old December 10th, 2008, 09:46 AM   #6816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k25150 View Post
You call that a lot of progress for 19 months! Get real guys and stop being cheerleaders for the political and bureaucratic nightmare that is the WTC site. What a joke.
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Old December 10th, 2008, 11:11 AM   #6817
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Interesting articles
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Old December 10th, 2008, 06:39 PM   #6818
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wth lets be on topic.
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Old December 10th, 2008, 07:14 PM   #6819
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The tower cranes are deigned to self assemble their own climbing assemblies. It is easier to have multiple cranes on site to aid in the installation of climbing assemblies. Look back at the beginning of the job and notice that only the lower baskets were installed onto the bases of the cranes and what was recently installed on the South crane (using the North crane) was the upper basket and supporting framework to complete the jacking assembly.
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Old December 10th, 2008, 07:18 PM   #6820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
It can be the climbing assembly, that as to be already a round the base of the crane to support it. It would also be extremely difficult to say the least to put it around the crane now. I believe it actually is part of the boom for another crane for the memorial.
The tower cranes are deigned to self assemble their own climbing assemblies. It is easier to have multiple cranes on site to aid in the installation of climbing assemblies. Look back at the beginning of the job and notice that only the lower baskets were installed onto the bases of the cranes and what was recently installed on the South crane (using the North crane) was the upper basket and supporting framework to complete the jacking assembly.
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