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Lübeck Altstadt - Germany

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150K views 231 replies 44 participants last post by  The Eagle 
#1 ·
It is one of the most beautiful Altstadt in Germany and it is still ell preserved!!








 
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#4 · (Edited)
Unfortunately even though the city is well preserved, the heart of the city, aka the marktplatz is very ugly. The only preserved building is the Rathaus, the rest is ugly low quality post-war low buildings :bash: On one side there is a new metallic department store but it is also very ugly, it replaced a half-way decent post-war building (the only one). It is truly a shame, IMO this city deserves a better marktplatz. I wonder if they are planning to remedy this situation like in Frankfurt or Dresden?




and the rathaus:


sources: flickr and kubische-panoramen.de
the way it was before the war:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Lübeck_RRD.jpg
source: wikipedia
 
#17 ·
Unfortunately even though the city is well preserved, the heart of the city, aka the marktplatz is very ugly. The only preserved building is the Rathaus, the rest is ugly low quality post-war low buildings :bash: On one side there is a new metallic department store but it is also very ugly, it replaced a half-way decent post-war building (the only one). It is truly a shame, IMO this city deserves a better marktplatz. I wonder if they are planning to remedy this situation like in Frankfurt or Dresden?
This is a photograph of the Marktplatz from 1871. The four buildings next to the Rathaus look like typical 18th or early 19th century architecture. Apparently many people back then felt that even these were not good enough. They kind of had a point.


http://de.wikipedia.org

Here is a proposed plan from around 1900 to replace one of them with something more suitable. It looks like there were more buildings proposed but I could not find any further information.


http://architekturmuseum.ub.tu-berlin.de/

There were many other architects from the time that offered plans that respected the existing Gothic brick style of Lübeck.








http://architekturmuseum.ub.tu-berlin.de/
 
#5 ·
Perfect! Luebeck is located on the eastern seaboard. Thank you very much for this Thread!

Is there a way to re-name the thread to new reconstruction? Or something like that? There is a reconstruction of three entire streets in planning! The difference to other projects in Germany is the Gothic style.
 
#7 ·
I am not sure a full reconstruction is planned. It is difficult to find information, but in the brochure I read:
Ziel ist es, nicht die historische Altstadt zu rekonstruieren, sondern vielmehr eine ad- äquate Antwort für das Bauvorhaben unter Berücksichtigung der vorhandenen Struk- turen und ihrer Gesetzmäßigkeiten zu finden.
Not a reconstruction, but modern houses with a 'nod' to what used to be there. This is also the image I get from the contest entries and the reference to the 'Gabler Haus' which is listed as an example.

I am unfortunately not yet allowed to post links, but searches for 'Gründungsviertel' will give you the pages and images I found. The contest results (wettbewerb) ar on baunetz.
 
#8 ·
It's the "Gründungsviertel" of Lübeck that will be built from scratch basically. Really good historicising/classical designs were proposed by various architects; but also reconstructions are possible for builder-owners. I'll introduce you to the project soon. :)

For now, you can check Google Images for the competition entries and some historical views.
 
#13 ·
Like I said in #8:
It's the "Gründungsviertel" of Lübeck that will be built from scratch basically. Really good historicising/classical designs were proposed by various architects; but also reconstructions are possible for builder-owners.
When we get more definite proposals by single investors, I'll introduce them more thoroughly. For now you can check some of the proposed ideas here.
 
#9 ·
The general scheme für the "Founder's Quarter" (Gründungsquartier) of Lübeck is based on the idea, that the World Heritage designated old town is extended over this quarter. With intimate courtyards, mixed uses, a very dense structure, only one investor for a house per street... A real old town quarter. Much like the structure that made such quarters possible in the first place. Investors/builders can decide for the designs of the competition they want, or even go for a pre-war building reconstruction if they choose to.

Before, the area occupied by rather bland post-war buildings (the pre-war houses there were hit by Allied bombing in WW2):


After, a dense old town neighbourhood again:


Source: Urban masterplan by Petersen Pörksen Partner Architects, http://www.ppp-architekten.de/index.php?n1ID=4&n2ID=20&iid=217

Here's a video doc about the project, even if you don't understand German you'll get to see some things: http://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendung...r-Luebecker-Gruendungsviertel,shmag32136.html
 
#10 ·
Whats so exciting about this is the special "Hanse" style mixed out of Gothic
The only Gothic construction I know of in the country.

The other reconstructions in the country use different styles like
Dresden: Baroque, Renaissance, Classicism, Bauhaus, Heimat style
Potsdam: Baroque, Classicism
Frankfurt: Renaissance and other mix
Luebeck: Gothic and neo Gothic.
So, I like this. It`s different.
 
#14 ·
#16 ·
There's a reason to be sceptical indeed. Because nothing is decided yet. It's all up to the people who buy construction lots there. They'll decide which contemporary designs will get built or what building they'd like to reconstruct.

I love that concept though, even if it's vague at the moment. From what I heard a lot of deeply rooted Lübeckers (even from abroad) are very interested, so there's chances we get to see good local architecture and rebuildings.
 
#18 ·
Excellent! These designs could very well be used for contemporary buildings.

In fact, there's loads and loads of 19th century concepts that were never built, but would create true marvels for our cities. I'm all for experimenting with that kind of stuff a little, copyrights have expired anyway. ;)
We even have a thread for classical visions/never built designs.
 
#19 · (Edited)
How is everybody?

In the next couple of years, we will explore the very well kept town of Luebeck. Luebeck is starting to rebuild a area that was destroyed during WW2. After the war people moved into the suburbs. The free space was used for a large highschool.

In the 70`s the city (located on the eastern seaboard of Germany, but in West-Germany close the border) was ashamed of its old heritage. The town planned to replace large areas for modern houses. Stubborn residents and the announcement of putting the altstadt (pre 1800 core) under World heritage protection saved many buildings.

The city is completely different of places like Dresden, Frankfurt or Potsdam. Everything is different. The Architecture of course, the people, landscape, history, type of economy or the whether. The city has also much older buildings. While Dresden has buildings from the 1700`s or so, Luebeck has many buildings 1000 years old. The owners just changed what was needed. The economy left the biggest mark, because of the way houses where used and the good times, when houses where build under local and international trend as well under bad times, that preserved houses, because owners had no money to remove or renovate their homes and businesses!

Luebeck has a very, very large historical center. Behind the front rows, used to be gardens. beginning around 1800 the backyards where overbuild for the growing population with cheap timberframe houses. Before the defensive town walls came down to make the town bigger like it was trend around 1850`s. London and Hamburg used to have 1000`s of those slam dwelling hallways. Luebeck is the only place, where those undesirable narrow very narrow places have survived. The streets are so narrow, that they are called "Gang" witch comes from German "gehen" or going in English. The Gaenge in Luebeck are basically translated in Walkways or Hallways. There are 100 of them in Luebeck. Luebeck has similar history with Brugge in Belgium. Bruegge is bigger then Luebeck.



This happened on the 3rd September 2015. The whole city has one of many project meetings.


It`s about this area

Photos from APH member frank 1204
 
#22 ·
Hello, everyone! Yes, Luebeck is pretty.
I just learned that downtown was hit by a whole series of House fires! Luckily every building was saved at the end. Damage was really bad in some cases. Considering missing the roof is such a case.


Fire in "Langen Lohberg" Street


Another fire in the "Schlumacher Strasse". For the Fire units a nightmare, since the house has no road frontage. The fire men had to run thru inner courts, called hallways. The damage was minor.


Last year. A simple baroque house in "Glocken giesser Strasse" in Flames. Construction started the fire. House will be saved


Last but not least: This very, very old building was damaged severely. The mentally disabled occupant of the roof loft started the fire by accident. The fire unit killed the fire but forgot the after fire watch. The fire re-started and burned the half house! This is going to be an expansive one. Insurance kicked in.

picks from frank1204
 
#25 ·
And the owners of the parcels 24 26 and 28 is looking for some to share the houses financially and later on to live with them

The design is from Stricker Architects, Hannover


It is subject to change, this one if the "partner" wants to.

Many people criticized the design. There where 14 designs with prizes from a jury
http://www.gruendungsviertel.de/die-gestaltung.html


Thanks, frank1204
 
#29 ·
Lübeck's old market never really was its 'most important part' though since centuries.
Its ensemble wasn't that special before WW2 except the amazing City Hall.

While in that case, I'd be very happy to see one of the historicist designs realised, that sadly never materialised:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=123245894&postcount=17

Why not build a wonderful 19th century design in the 21st century? Come on, let's open our minds! :)


PS: Have you actually been to Lübeck, Tiaren? It's amazing. There are bloopers here and there, but they don't affect the overall impression all that much (they aren't much worse than in a city like Prague or Amsterdam, frankly).
 
#30 ·
PS: Have you actually been to Lübeck, Tiaren? It's amazing. There are bloopers here and there, but they don't affect the overall impression all that much (they aren't much worse than in a city like Prague or Amsterdam, frankly).
I actually haven't. :shifty:

There seem to be a lot of particularly ugly post war buildings in the Altstadt though. And an atrocity like this...



...I didn't encounter in Prague's old city, which I had the pleasure to visit.
 
#35 ·
I never realised the post war buildings in Lubeck were not reconstructions as were quite common in German cities and that a lot of the buildings were more modern incarnations. It doesn't really show in aerial photographs (I have never visited the city first hand). I do quite like that silver coloured semi-circular roofed building though (the market?). Apart from the obvious reason, its seems Lubeck and my home city of Exeter share more in common than i appreaciated which was also re-built in a modern style.
 
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