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Old Today, 03:03 AM   #501
NWDave83
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We know they are not a labor union, they are still a cartel which uses extortion to achieve their goals (whether noble or otherwise).
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Old Today, 03:09 AM   #502
bgwah
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They are not a cartel and unless they personally benefited I wouldn't call it extortion either. I don't like what they're doing but let's not be ridiculous here.
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Old Today, 03:47 AM   #503
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A cartel is a group that conspires together to control the price of something. The tenants union is conspiring to make the price of building a residential building in seattle include building affordable housing, just like the other union conspired to make the price of building a hotel include having a union workforce.

Extortion is just using threats to get your way, both these unions threatened (and to an extent succeeded) to tie up these projects in litigation/redtape unless they got their way.

What I said was correct.
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Old Today, 04:06 AM   #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgwah View Post
Also, the Tenants Union isn't a labor union, or whatever half of you are mistaking it for...
Couldn't find evidence of the half that was supposedly mistaking it for a labor union. From our discussion of their ostensible mission above, thought it was pretty clear that it was known they weren't labor. I do think the Tenants Union should stick to their purpose, which does not involve obstructing projects that have nothing to do with protecting renters.
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Old Today, 05:30 AM   #505
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Eh, whatever. Any social program, be it social security or whatever, is thus a massive cartel by that logic.

If you want to descend into meaningless hyperbole, that is your choice. But then you're basically just Kshama Sawant with a different political orientation. Yawn.
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Old Today, 05:50 AM   #506
NWDave83
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Social programs have nothing to do with unions. I fail to see the correlation between government programs voted on by elected officials and unions of any kind. Care to elaborate?

Maybe you just need a nap?
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Old Today, 08:35 AM   #507
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In economics, a cartel is an agreement between competing firms to control prices or exclude entry of a new competitor in a market. It is a formal organization of sellers or buyers that agree to fix selling prices, purchase prices, or reduce production using a variety of tactics.[1] Cartels usually arise in an oligopolistic industry, where the number of sellers is small or sales are highly concentrated and the products being traded are usually commodities.

I mentioned social programs because that is essentially what they want in the form of affordable housing. It doesn't directly benefit them. They are not the buyer or the seller. The government is the seller, both here and in alley vacating instances, and that government is democratically elected. The Tenants Union is a third party attempting to influence government policy. A cartel also implies collusion, of which there is none.

We may not agree with their methods or logic, but that doesn't mean we can't point out their faults accurately and reasonably.
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Old Today, 01:48 PM   #508
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What they want is affordable housing? So that's why they interfered in the Hedreen project, you know, the one that included hundreds of on site affordable housing units. Or at least it did until this idiot Union got involved. Now the city gets no on site housing and the developer doesn't have to trade any public benefits at all for the alley.

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Old Today, 06:18 PM   #509
D Green
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Bullying doesnt justify the ends. It just shows that some groups dont trust people to be able to "spend their own money wisely."
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Old Today, 06:54 PM   #510
cadre
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Quote:
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What they want is affordable housing? So that's why they interfered in the Hedreen project....
You DO understand the difference between a labor union and a tenants union, right? Conflating the two is stupid.

I'd also remind you, again, that Union pensions fund many, if not most of the large development projects in this city. There wouldn't be much of a Skyscraper forum were it not for Unions. You'd be aimlessly lurching around a bunch of surface parking lots, getting a tingle in your pants over 3-story wood construction. Frankly, you should get on your knees and kiss the dirty work boots of the unions for making the transformation of this city possible.
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