search the site
 daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > General > NASF Archive



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


 

 
Thread Tools
Old May 20th, 2013, 05:40 PM   #11021
cwilson758
Cory
 
cwilson758's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Francisco via Indianapolis
Posts: 3,403
Likes (Received): 15

Quote:
Originally Posted by caliboy28 View Post
Talk about a horrible looking building! That thing is hideous, IMO...

Off topic... Was wandering through downtown yesterday afternoon when it struck me: the view from the base of the Central Library steps looking southward has to be one the most striking vistas I've encountered in any downtown that I've visited. It was sunny, the fountains were going, a light breeze stirring the large American flag in the plaza.
I make it a point to take visitors to the War Memorial and the library steps if they have never been here before. The view from the library just screams "Capitol City" and I agree, is easily one of the best around. It provides such a sense of place and really highlights Indy's built environment.


Garfield Park...you know I agree with you on many things and normally on this I would agree with you, but I can't. Over the past 5-7 years, we have done a tremendous job with infill and the City should be so proud of all of the residential development in and around downtown. Countless lots have been developed with midrise after midrise. However, aside from a couple of hotels, we have virtually had nothing over 6 stories and it's time that we build something big. This opportunity is something that needs to be seized as it could be a number of years before we see another. We aren't the south and let's face it, downtown Class A isn't needed, so a residential high rise with a big box retailer and parking is the best we can hope for at MSA. If we could get a tower like the one on Austin (Austonian?) think of what that would do for our skyline, what it would do in terms of further enhancing the near east side and what it would say to the residents of Central Indiana to see a new tower that tall going up.

Midrise development is going to continue, it's time we set out to change the skyline!
__________________
"Indianapolis has the reputation of a shark striking when other cities sleep."
cwilson758 no está en línea  

Sponsored Links
Old May 20th, 2013, 06:29 PM   #11022
cdc guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,541
Likes (Received): 1412

Quote:
Originally Posted by caliboy28 View Post
Talk about a horrible looking building! That thing is hideous, IMO...

Off topic... Was wandering through downtown yesterday afternoon when it struck me: the view from the base of the Central Library steps looking southward has to be one the most striking vistas I've encountered in any downtown that I've visited. It was sunny, the fountains were going, a light breeze stirring the large American flag in the plaza.
And to think that was an urban renewal project.

If you look at end-of-19th Century photos north from the Board of Trade building, University Park was always there, but north of Vermont was fully developed with homes, churches, and businesses. The War Memorial (think of it as "The First World War" Memorial) and Legion Mall were put in place after that part of the Mile Square had been platted and developed for 100 years.

I do not know if George Kessler had a hand in planning it. I believe clearing and construction started in the 1920's, which was the end of the Kessler era. The summaries of the NPS "Kessler Parks and Boulevards Plan" historic district don't explicitly address this. A Wikipedia article describes the maneuvering to get the American Legion national HQ and there is no mention of Kessler, though the construction occurred during his second stint as the city's planner.
cdc guy no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 07:18 PM   #11023
vitamin R
Registered User
 
vitamin R's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 1,016
Likes (Received): 378

First of all, Indy has a sizeable stock of mid-rise towers in the 150-300 foot range, already. Furthermore, we don't get many opportunities to build 500+ foot towers here in the city. Since the last construction boom ended 20 years ago, the city has only constucted one tower of skyscraper status. So many people like to crow about all the in-fill development of 5-6 floor apartments and office buildings yet, turn around and express doubt about a key in-fill project that most people agree should be high-rise. The D/T is already limited in area and certain portions of that limited area has already been restricted from high-rise development (the Canal). Many may not realize it but at the rate of development we have been witnessing the time for building tall is quickly coming upon us.
vitamin R no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 07:40 PM   #11024
idyllic indy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 1,163
Likes (Received): 165

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson758 View Post
I make it a point to take visitors to the War Memorial and the library steps if they have never been here before. The view from the library just screams "Capitol City" and I agree, is easily one of the best around. It provides such a sense of place and really highlights Indy's built environment.


Garfield Park...you know I agree with you on many things and normally on this I would agree with you, but I can't. Over the past 5-7 years, we have done a tremendous job with infill and the City should be so proud of all of the residential development in and around downtown. Countless lots have been developed with midrise after midrise. However, aside from a couple of hotels, we have virtually had nothing over 6 stories and it's time that we build something big. This opportunity is something that needs to be seized as it could be a number of years before we see another. We aren't the south and let's face it, downtown Class A isn't needed, so a residential high rise with a big box retailer and parking is the best we can hope for at MSA. If we could get a tower like the one on Austin (Austonian?) think of what that would do for our skyline, what it would do in terms of further enhancing the near east side and what it would say to the residents of Central Indiana to see a new tower that tall going up.

Midrise development is going to continue, it's time we set out to change the skyline!
Of course, it would be fun to watch a high-rise go up, but I'd take a well-designed mid-rise without subsidies over a highly-subsidized high-rise. Is there any chance Ballard will look for a project that doesn't require a big handout? Is there any chance that any of the proposals isn't seeking a big handout? Is there any chance we'll ever see all the details of all the proposals?
idyllic indy no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 07:41 PM   #11025
cailes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,683
Likes (Received): 101

Speaking of parking, kind of sad development here with the parking lot next to the Anthenaum.

http://www.ibj.com/athenaeum-weighs-.../article/41403
cailes no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 07:47 PM   #11026
idyllic indy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 1,163
Likes (Received): 165

Quote:
Originally Posted by cailes View Post
Speaking of parking, kind of sad development here with the parking lot next to the Anthenaum.

http://www.ibj.com/athenaeum-weighs-.../article/41403
Let's hope they come up with something that looks and functions better than the City Park on the 100 block of East Washington
idyllic indy no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 07:52 PM   #11027
cailes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,683
Likes (Received): 101

Hopefully you are right Moochie. It is difficult to look at that site, consider existing access points, and hope that anything resembling a respectable use other than parking could come from it.

I have been surprised before, but I am not holding my breath. It seems like someone wanted the space as parking, so that another development could move forward.
cailes no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 08:11 PM   #11028
DowntownIndianapolis
Community Activist
 
DowntownIndianapolis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,618
Likes (Received): 183

Quote:
Originally Posted by moochie View Post
Well, of course, it's a result of the Millikan being built. That space was slated for a parking garage a long time ago.. that battle is lost. But if the right team gets the project, at least we'll have something that won't hurt the area. I've seen some of the preliminary drawings, lots of residential with a cool design.. for a garage.. you take what you can get sometimes.
I agree and not to mention you cant get everything you want in good urban design. However I rather have 1 parking garage up than 3-5 surface parking lots. Sacrificing 1 parcel for a garage opens up 3-5 or even more surface parking lots. Block 400 is an example of that.
2 MASSIVE ugly surface parking lots are being developed and in exchange we get an ok looking parking garage. hopefully it will be a little better than the renderings. However it was a compromise that can always have any glitches worked out later.
DowntownIndianapolis no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 08:13 PM   #11029
DowntownIndianapolis
Community Activist
 
DowntownIndianapolis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,618
Likes (Received): 183

A little off topic but EXTREMELY Annoying

http://www.ibj.com/deadline-looms-fo.../article/41450

Have any of you guys gotten a bunch of those annoying sales calls?
Some of the ones described in this article almost occur on a daily basis for my phone and by god its annoying as hell.
DowntownIndianapolis no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 08:34 PM   #11030
caliboy28
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 333
Likes (Received): 138

Quote:
Originally Posted by cailes View Post
Speaking of parking, kind of sad development here with the parking lot next to the Anthenaum.

http://www.ibj.com/athenaeum-weighs-.../article/41403
I don't know that its such a sad development, as long as its done correctly. I don't care what anyone says, parking in that area can be and IS a nightmare sometimes on the weekends or when there is an event at the Murat / Rathskellar. And that's NOW, before the completion of the Barton project which will include NO dedicated parking and the development across the street where the Fire Department is now located. Hopefully things like this will become less necessary when / if we get moving on a transit system that isn't a complete P.O.S.
caliboy28 no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 08:59 PM   #11031
cdc guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,541
Likes (Received): 1412

Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownIndianapolis View Post
I agree and not to mention you cant get everything you want in good urban design. However I rather have 1 parking garage up than 3-5 surface parking lots. Sacrificing 1 parcel for a garage opens up 3-5 or even more surface parking lots. Block 400 is an example of that.
2 MASSIVE ugly surface parking lots are being developed and in exchange we get an ok looking parking garage. hopefully it will be a little better than the renderings. However it was a compromise that can always have any glitches worked out later.
I agree with you.

Improvement, the reduction of surface parking in the Mile Square, is good. Don't let "perfect" be the enemy of "good".

However, on this forum, sometimes one must be careful of appearing too "pro-automobile".
cdc guy no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 09:14 PM   #11032
arenn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,905
Likes (Received): 132

BTW: I'm in Las Vegas this week checking out what they are doing with the Downtown Project. Wow. Downtown Las Vegas is the absolute saddest thing I've ever seen. There is basically no commercial center of any type, just some legacy casino development and some public buildings. Bleak doesn't even begin to describe it. Let's just say Tony H has got his work cut out for him with this place.
__________________
My Urban Affairs Blog: http://www.urbanophile.com/
arenn no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 10:16 PM   #11033
CorrND
Moderator Chris
 
CorrND's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,487
Likes (Received): 461

I would be solidly for an Athenaeum garage as long as they also consolidate the parking needs for the current users and future development of the Lockerbie Court lot (SW point of Mass/NJ). That lot is NEVER going anywhere unless it gets piggy-backed on something like this.
__________________
Urban Indy
CorrND no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 10:17 PM   #11034
cailes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,683
Likes (Received): 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by arenn View Post
BTW: I'm in Las Vegas this week checking out what they are doing with the Downtown Project. Wow. Downtown Las Vegas is the absolute saddest thing I've ever seen. There is basically no commercial center of any type, just some legacy casino development and some public buildings. Bleak doesn't even begin to describe it. Let's just say Tony H has got his work cut out for him with this place.
Ive looked at dt Vegas a lot since they have a BRT line which services the area and noted the same thing.

Desolation city
cailes no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #11035
GarfieldPark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,451
Likes (Received): 1216

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson758 View Post
I make it a point to take visitors to the War Memorial and the library steps if they have never been here before. The view from the library just screams "Capitol City" and I agree, is easily one of the best around. It provides such a sense of place and really highlights Indy's built environment.


Garfield Park...you know I agree with you on many things and normally on this I would agree with you, but I can't. Over the past 5-7 years, we have done a tremendous job with infill and the City should be so proud of all of the residential development in and around downtown. Countless lots have been developed with midrise after midrise. However, aside from a couple of hotels, we have virtually had nothing over 6 stories and it's time that we build something big. This opportunity is something that needs to be seized as it could be a number of years before we see another. We aren't the south and let's face it, downtown Class A isn't needed, so a residential high rise with a big box retailer and parking is the best we can hope for at MSA. If we could get a tower like the one on Austin (Austonian?) think of what that would do for our skyline, what it would do in terms of further enhancing the near east side and what it would say to the residents of Central Indiana to see a new tower that tall going up.

Midrise development is going to continue, it's time we set out to change the skyline!
Yea, I completely understand that it would be great to have a new 50 story building - and I agree with your points. I wouldn't be disappointed at all if a 50 story building was announced -- unless it was really designed poorly and didn't work in a positive way to advance the walkability and street friendliness of that area. Also -- I wasn't saying I wanted a few 6 - 7 story buildings, I was saying a mix of decent sized buildings - maybe 12, 20 and 30 stories (or whatever I said) would be good on that 1/2 block.

We'll see. I think all of us primarily want to see some good design that integrates well with and promotes the streetlife and "urbanity" in the area. Some good commercial uses on the lower floor(s) would definitely need to happen. A 50 story building that can do a good job with that would be great.

p.s. -- as rumors and guesses continue to fly about the project, I was talking to someone who works with several of the developers - and he said he thought Flaherty & Collins has the inside track to be selected. Not sure what the reasons were that he felt that way. Definitely not anything I heard from anyone official -- but, just thought I'd share one of the insights that I had heard recently, for what its worth. I think I'll try to look up a few of their taller projects that they have designed recently in places like Charlotte (and maybe Austin?).
GarfieldPark no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 11:24 PM   #11036
GarfieldPark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,451
Likes (Received): 1216

Here's a link to a Flaherty & Collins 30 story residential project going up in Cincinnati.

https://flahertycollins.propertysolu...2f3f88f215.pdf

Add another twenty stories to that - plus refine the design with at least some narrowing of the upper floors to give it some cool set-backs - and it might work. The big garage would obviously go on the east side of the block - which would put it right next to the existing garage. Crummy for that section of New Jersey Street but, it would allow the big tower to front right on Alabama. Ideally something better could be designed that somehow hides the parking better. Just throwing this out as an example of something by F&C.
GarfieldPark no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 11:27 PM   #11037
GarfieldPark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,451
Likes (Received): 1216

That 56 Leonard Project is the coolest thing ever. Can you imagine? Unfortunately it probably wouldn't fit quite as well in Indpls as compared to Manhattan -- but still, I love the look of that project. Amazing!
GarfieldPark no está en línea  
Old May 20th, 2013, 11:27 PM   #11038
SpiderMonkey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Missoula, MT via Indy
Posts: 454
Likes (Received): 35

Quote:
Originally Posted by moochie View Post
For the record, I want something along the lines of NY's new 57 story 56 Leonard tower.. I really don't want to see standard type residential scraper with a huge spire to make it taller... I just don't care too much about height.. Something like this would really catch people's attention.. tho I'm sure many here would hate it.
Ohhhhh, that's interesting. I kinda like it. It would surely be a talking point for years to come and have a lot of interesting opinions. I think it would be one of those love/hate buildings with probably more hate than love.

What's with the squashed "Cloud Gate" though? Funny.
SpiderMonkey no está en línea  
Old May 21st, 2013, 12:00 AM   #11039
cailes
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,683
Likes (Received): 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by moochie View Post
For the record, I want something along the lines of NY's new 57 story 56 Leonard tower.. I really don't want to see standard type residential scraper with a huge spire to make it taller... I just don't care too much about height.. Something like this would really catch people's attention.. tho I'm sure many here would hate it.





Ive never seen this. What an awesome design
cailes no está en línea  
Old May 21st, 2013, 01:26 AM   #11040
socrates#1fan
Registered User
 
socrates#1fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,605
Likes (Received): 1318

Quote:
Originally Posted by moochie View Post
And this is what I'd like to avoid at the MSA site.. Nashville TN's scrapped 1000' "Signature Tower". Granted, it's a nice looking tower, and the spire is pretty nice, but it's just more of the same.. just a modern take on the Empire State building imho. I'd be a bit embarrassed if Indy built something like this thinking that it's grand.. when in fact, it's just derivative of hundreds of towers built in the past 100 years or whatever.
I'm sure my opinion is no surprise, but..

In terms of architecture, that tower looks awful. It is completely unbalanced and faddish. It reminds me of favelas in Brazil. I'd be embarrassed if Indy had this tower built. It would make us look desperate to seem "hip". We are better than that. It would not only completely mess up the skyline, it would age horribly. The gift that keeps on giving with time...

I want a tower that is progressive but uses successful elements from towers of the past. "Coolness" changes dramatically every ten years. Many of the eyesores from the past were regarded as "cool" in their day. I have no fear of using the past's accomplishments to move forward.

Personally I'd rather see something like the Chicago Spire.


__________________
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

"I don’t know what it is about Hoosiers, but wherever you go there is always a Hoosier doing something very important there."-Kurt Vonnegut
socrates#1fan no está en línea  


 

Tags
development, indianapolis

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu