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Old February 29th, 2008, 06:59 PM   #1
Solid
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Victory Park in Serious Trouble

Word on the street is that they have stopped working on the garage building before it was completed and scaled down in size. The cranes are reportedly being taken down now. I also heard that Victory Tower/Mandarin is indefinitely on hold or has been cancelled completely.

Anyone have any further info?
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Old February 29th, 2008, 07:04 PM   #2
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Sounds like Dallas is sucking wind.
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Old February 29th, 2008, 07:23 PM   #3
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If this is true its nothing to do with Dallas. We're in probably the worst real estate market in a couple of decades people.... not to mention that banks a very tight with loans and fears of a recession. It would make sense to put a hold on projects that aren't too far along until things improve.
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Old February 29th, 2008, 07:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwiATLeman View Post
If this is true its nothing to do with Dallas. We're in probably the worst real estate market in a couple of decades people.... not to mention that banks a very tight with loans and fears of a recession. It would make sense to put a hold on projects that aren't too far along until things improve.
It is rather accentuated with Dallas, given that its best and tallest designs are on hold or on the shelf. This is certainly not true with many other cities.

And I'm certainly not gloating here. I'm disappointed for Dallas.
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Old February 29th, 2008, 07:41 PM   #5
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Only 1/3 of what was actually planned to be built has been built. This project was very ambitious but I always wondered if it was ever very realistic. I think Uptown Dallas is getting pretty vulnerable right now. Maybe they have built too much too fast in that area. The scary economy news is not helping.

I have also been hearing that the 42 floor Museum Tower is in serious doubt. It's a pity because it's such a nice tower and would be built in such a terrific location.

I guess the dream was nice while it lasted.
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Old February 29th, 2008, 08:33 PM   #6
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Stupid recession!
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Old February 29th, 2008, 11:04 PM   #7
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There is no evidence that we are in a recession and we will not actually know untill the 2nd quarter of 2008. You have to have 2 negative quarters to be in a recession.
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Old February 29th, 2008, 11:38 PM   #8
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Recession or not. No one can deny that uptown Dallas is way over built. The hotel vacancy rates are not good. I'm sure the Mandarin is having doubts about the Dallas market right now.

Last edited by Solid; February 29th, 2008 at 11:49 PM.
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Old February 29th, 2008, 11:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwiATLeman View Post
If this is true its nothing to do with Dallas. We're in probably the worst real estate market in a couple of decades people.... not to mention that banks a very tight with loans and fears of a recession. It would make sense to put a hold on projects that aren't too far along until things improve.
Not really. It has more do to with those markets that just built and built with no/little serious demand (build it and they will come), instead of following the market like some cities do.
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Old March 1st, 2008, 12:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale View Post
It is rather accentuated with Dallas, given that its best and tallest designs are on hold or on the shelf. This is certainly not true with many other cities.
Actually, not true..at all. You oughtta peak into the Dallas development thread..Victory Park is a small fraction of the major urban developments in Dallas these days. It really is impressive.
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Old March 1st, 2008, 12:10 AM   #11
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Not really. Victory Park is the development that is mostly shaping up Uptown Dallas. There are other developments near it I think though, but those are being halted, too (for example, Museum Tower).
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Old March 1st, 2008, 12:12 AM   #12
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Don't make me post all of Dallas' skyscraper projects.. lol.
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Old March 1st, 2008, 12:16 AM   #13
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Do it please.
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Old March 1st, 2008, 12:44 AM   #14
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I might not have all of the development names correct, and I may have "borrowed" some photographs taken by forum users but all of these renderings and photos are from the Dallas Development Thread which I highly recommend..if you really want to see a city on the move.

The Harwood District




Cirque

image hosted on flickr


The House by Starcke

image hosted on flickr


The Mercantile rehab

image hosted on flickr


Icon Center



Gables Dallas



Museum Tower



Mandarin Oriental



Jefferson at West End Station



Cirque II



1900 McKinney Avenue



Jefferson at Arts District



Azure



Hunt HQ



Rosewood Court



One Victory Park



2000 McKinney Avenue



1414 Elm + Third Rail Lofts



Winspear Opera House



Rosewood Alta



Akard Place



The Ambrose



Rosewood Office Tower



Dallas House of Blues



W Hotel



Vista Travis



One Victory Park



Buzz on South Akard



Shops at Victory Park



Glorypark at Arlington



Sierra Frisco



Arts Plaza



West End Station



Joule Urban Resort



Highland Park Place



Avondale at Oak Lawn



Granite Tower



City Lights



Valencia Hotel & Condominiums



Saint Ann Court



Lakeside Hotel & Condominiums



Stoneleigh Court



Victory Park Lane



Ritz Carlton (1 of 2 proposed in the city)



1900 Pacific



Woodall Rogers Park



That's leaving out a lot of the smaller and medium sized projects, as well as 2 announced-but-no-renderings projects that are 45 story twin towers. And you guys remember Museum Place? This is the design that lost:



For some reason I like the runner-up design for Museum Place better than the one that they went with..
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Old March 1st, 2008, 12:47 AM   #15
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Do you realize how bad a lot of those are doing? For example, Azure is just 25% sold, and the building itself is completed (or really close to being completed). The crane for the Mandarin came down already and they only built half of the garage and took out the retail.

By the way, a lot of those aren't happening. The ones with just renderings especially. Some pretty old renderings SRG. And Victory Park looks extremely sterile. No vibe or grit.

Last edited by Trae; March 1st, 2008 at 01:01 AM.
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Old March 1st, 2008, 01:02 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae View Post
Not really. Victory Park is the development that is mostly shaping up Uptown Dallas. There are other developments near it I think though, but those are being halted, too (for example, Museum Tower).
http://www.harwooddallas.com/masterplan.php?b2=_sel

Harwood is right next to Victory which is supposed to break ground on several towers this year in addition to the two towers U/C right now. Victory has three towers U/C and there are nine other towers U/C in Uptown as well as many other proposals.

I would love to see evidence that the Museum Tower is not getting built. If your reference happens to be the DFW forum, then I can assure you I've read it all and it is nothing more than rumor at this point. What other projects have been halted that you know of?

Also, Mandarin can't get off the ground in Chicago or Atlanta. Perhaps it's the brand?
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Old March 1st, 2008, 01:05 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae View Post
Not really. Victory Park is the development that is mostly shaping up Uptown Dallas. There are other developments near it I think though, but those are being halted, too (for example, Museum Tower).
Two things - Museum Tower has not been "halted" and it is not Uptown. According to an article in today's [2/29/08] Dallas Business Journal the developers are on track to break ground in the Dallas Arts District in April/May of this year. They have pointed to that time frame for construction ever since it was announced and have never wavered. Now if you have some other "inside" information Trae, please provide the source.

As for other projects actually in Uptown (non-Victory) that are also not being "halted". Ritz-Carlton Tower II-Steel is above ground, St. Anne Court-cranes went up two weeks ago, Rosewood Court-still under construction, 1900 McKinney Ave-also still under construction, Texas Capital Bank Bldg-3 floors remain until topping out, The Heritage at Stoneleigh-steel is now rising out of the ground.

Since you don't seem to know much about what's happening in Dallas, maybe should refrain from "matter of fact" posts of misinformation. You don't see me chiming in on what's "mostly shaping" Houston. Because I don't have the foggiest clue about the place. If I did, that would be obvious after the first sentence. Sort of like you and Dallas.
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Old March 1st, 2008, 01:14 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasStar View Post
Two things - Museum Tower has not been "halted" and it is not Uptown. According to an article in today's [2/29/08] Dallas Business Journal the developers are on track to break ground in the Dallas Arts District in April/May of this year. They have pointed to that time frame for construction ever since it was announced and have never wavered. Now if you have some other "inside" information Trae, please provide the source.
From your own forum: http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/sh...5&page=6&pp=50

And this: http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/sh...t=4040&page=13

They said it was on hold.

Quote:
As for other projects actually in Uptown (non-Victory) that are also not being "halted". Ritz-Carlton Tower II-Steel is above ground, St. Anne Court-cranes went up two weeks ago, Rosewood Court-still under construction, 1900 McKinney Ave-also still under construction, Texas Capital Bank Bldg-3 floors remain until topping out, The Heritage at Stoneleigh-steel is now rising out of the ground.
Never said anything about those being halted.

Quote:
Since you don't seem to know much about what's happening in Dallas, maybe should refrain from "matter of fact" posts of misinformation. You don't see me chiming in on what's "mostly shaping" Houston. Because I don't have the foggiest clue about the place. If I did, that would be obvious after the first sentence. Sort of like you and Dallas.
And? Doesn't matter if you don't.

Dallas is going through what Atlanta is right now. Both cities started to build the exact same way.

Last edited by Trae; March 1st, 2008 at 01:26 AM. Reason: Added a link...
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Old March 1st, 2008, 01:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae View Post
Do you realize how bad a lot of those are doing? For example, Azure is just 25% sold, and the building itself is completed (or really close to being completed). The crane for the Mandarin came down already and they only built half of the garage and took out the retail.

By the way, a lot of those aren't happening. The ones with just renderings especially. Some pretty old renderings SRG. And Victory Park looks extremely sterile. No vibe or grit.
It's kinda tough for a development to have "vibe" or "grit" when it hasn't been completed yet. On a side note to myself, why am I getting suckered into an arguement with a known flame-thrower???!!!!
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Old March 1st, 2008, 01:19 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CentralD View Post
It's kinda tough for a development to have "vibe" or "grit" when it hasn't been completed yet. On a side note to myself, why am I getting suckered into an arguement with a known flame-thrower???!!!!
A "known-flame-thrower"?
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