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Old June 1st, 2017, 01:15 AM   #3881
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Originally Posted by kbbcn View Post
I am still hoping something goes wrong, and they decide in the end not to use those AVRIL trains. It will be the end of comfortable long distance train travel in Spain.

Oh well, good for the airlines and for the car manufacturers I guess...
Ahem... there was a time whenn long-distance trains used to hive a side corridor and about compartments of two rows of 3 or even 4 seats.

Why wasn't it a problem then, and why is it now?
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Old June 1st, 2017, 08:15 AM   #3882
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First of all it was possible with those compartments to move to and from your seat without disturbing your neighbours. And then it was possible to use the side corridor to stretch one's legs and stand at the window. All possibilities that have disappeared today. Those trains just look like a plane cabin on rails.
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Old June 1st, 2017, 08:35 AM   #3883
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First of all it was possible with those compartments to move to and from your seat without disturbing your neighbours. And then it was possible to use the side corridor to stretch one's legs and stand at the window. All possibilities that have disappeared today. Those trains just look like a plane cabin on rails.
I can agree with the possibilities offered in that layout. However, is that kind of inner design that positive? What's about unknown people who want needs to be seated with other unknown people face to face, in a much more private space where avoiding interaction is complicated. That layout forces people to interact, which can be "interesting", but not everybody can feel comfortable with that forced environment which is not really flexible. Additionally, capacity in trains is lost due to inner partitions, so cost is likely to be higher. As overall it is not a great alternative for day trains.

We can't forget that this kind of segmented inner spaces in train cars is mostly an evolution of the first passengers cars designed by adding horse-pulled carriages, mostly than an on purpose design intended to foster social interaction and nice walks on tracks.

In the general picture, I don't see that this layout can be completely better. In a different level, I don't see either that necessarily a 3+2 layout is always worse than a 2+2 or 2+1 layout, considering flexibility and different selling strategies.
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Old June 1st, 2017, 08:45 AM   #3884
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Cost is certainly the main driver for thé abandonment of compartments layout. Belgian I6 cars have only 66 seats in second class and 54 in first...

The interaction part I do not buy. People are too afraid to talk and interact with people they don't know those days. Last year I did Moscow-Tashkent - that' 3 days - with a perfect stranger in front of me and we ended up being friends.
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Old June 1st, 2017, 11:38 AM   #3885
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Wide and length sizes for seats are according to law in any case. And, in addition, I guess, they will have requested more than whatever law says in these cases (not all AVE trains are the same at all as you will know).

Anyway, let's just remember those duplex French RER trains with 3+2
Are they comfortable?. Well... they aren't first class but they remain comfortable.

Several years ago, should you take a train in Spain it wouldn't be for less than 3-4 hours (or maybe more). Nowadays, how many journeys are longer than 2,5 hours?.

Passengers sometimes just wanna a little table to work with laptops, read or something like that... and arriving as fast as possible.
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 08:38 PM   #3886
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Compartments are bad IMHO, unless, like on ICE trains, they are just a fraction of seats. They are great for families, for a person traveling alone, or for groups of related people that can fit into one. In every other scenario it is less comfortable. In this day and age of video surveillance of railway cars for safety, compartments greatly increase the total number of cameras needed.

Compartments also don't have the airy open-space nature of modern train cars with open plans.

Finally, as in seats facing each other, compartments reduce your space if the train is relatively full. On aligned seat rows, you can put you legs underneath the seat in front of you. On facing seats like in a compartment, you must sit with legs on a 90-degree position. If most or all seats are compartments, that bring some discomfort. In Western Europe (maybe other places have other social conventions), in any place you are sit facing someone else, unless that someone is a close person or partner, you do not push your legs beyond theirs to gain space. That is something couples, families, or good old friends might do, but it is a no-go in other cases.
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Old June 3rd, 2017, 11:20 AM   #3887
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In Tourist there is no margin, but in Preferente can do this:

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Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
Do you think any of these configurations for Preferente better than the announced 2 + 2 that everyone will remember the Tourist class?

This is the one I like the most:
2 + 1 + 1


This one also takes advantage of the corridor, but I think it is necessary to separate individual passengers from couples:
Or a mixture of the two.
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Old June 23rd, 2017, 09:25 AM   #3888
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Ourense intermodal station revealed

Designs for the refurbishment and extension of the Ourense FFCC Station in Galicia, Spain, by Foster + Partners and Juan Cabanelas have been unveiled.
The integrated design brings together high-speed rail and bus stations in a major urban intervention, which will open pedestrian links between the districts on either side of the tracks, and create a vibrant new public plaza for the city.





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Old June 23rd, 2017, 09:28 AM   #3889
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This neutral zone on a switch looks the perfect place for frequent problems and stuck trains that need shunting. Architecturally, that is a very interesting project design.
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Old June 23rd, 2017, 03:15 PM   #3890
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If there are too many incidents with this neutral zone, it can be easily changed into a zone that switches automatically between 3 and 25 kv depending on the itinerary selected.
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Old June 23rd, 2017, 07:35 PM   #3891
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In addition to the problem of the different electrical voltage (no switchable catenary, are only 35 meters of neutral zone) is the problem of different gauge.


Vía Libre

These are the dates announced, although they will not be fulfilled.

In 2018 will open the 111.7 km stretch between Zamora and Pedralba, trains will continue to be S-730 (bimodal or hybrid) and will change gauge in Pedralba.
To open the HSR to Taboadela in 2020, the minimum required is its the gauge changer: in a first phase all trains (only S-730) will change gauge there and Pedralba will be dismantled.

When it is electrified to 25 kV to the neutral zone of Ourense, the trains can be S-121 or 130 except those of Ferrol and Lugo (S-730).
When adapting to the mixed gauge of the current route Taboadela-Ourense and putting some track in standard in Ourense will be able to reach AVE trains of fixed gauge and 300 km/h to Galicia (only to Ourense, and so it will continue until the change of gauge Ourense-Santiago and Atlantic Axe Coruña-Vigo).

When everything is according to the scheme, the S-730 for Lugo will only change gauge in Taboadela (they will continue to 25 kV to the neutral zone of Ourense and will enter under 3 kV to the tracks in Iberian); The AVE (S-100, 102, 103, 112 or 106) will arrive to the standard part of Ourense by a route that does not pass through the Taboadela changer, like the following; the S-121, 130 or 122 for Vigo will change the gauge and tension in the changer nº 2 that is in the middle of Ourense station; and the S-121, 130 or 122 for Santiago and Coruña, in addition to the S-730 for Ferrol, will change only gauge (the tension will be the same) in the changer that is more to the northwest of the two: number 1.

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Old June 24th, 2017, 01:24 PM   #3892
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Looks good, finally we get alternatives that don't involve putting the whole station underground, which has been the trend everywhere else in Spain.
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Old June 24th, 2017, 02:07 PM   #3893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
-Monforte del Cid-Murcia: tests at the end of 2017.
What exactly will happen to the Murcia-Alicante and the Murcia-Cartagena classic lines? Will these lines be re-gauge to join the new standard gauge line?
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Old June 24th, 2017, 05:30 PM   #3894
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This week announced the configuration of the Murcia station, tracks 3 5 and 7 will have standard gauge for future commuter trains to Alicante.



The current trains will only circulate from Alicante to San Isidro, the new ones will circulate by Monforte.


The last announced by the previous government was mixed gauge, both in San Isidro-Alicante and Murcia-Cartagena, but the new minister has not announced anything.
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Old June 24th, 2017, 06:42 PM   #3895
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I will explain more, because it is complex.

In 2018 the HSR will be inaugurated according to the scheme, but we believe that there will be difficulties to get the trains for the commuter to Alicante, they should be S-104 114 or 121.

In 2020 the Valencia-Xátiva-La Encina section will be inaugurated, and and they will put S-121 trains Valencia-Alicante and Valencia-Murcia. By then there will be new S-106 Talgo Avril trains.

When the commuter Alicante-Murcia trains are HST in standard gauge the current commuter trains will only go from Alicante to San Isidro, and the gauge of the San Isidro-El Reguerón section will be changed to standard gauge.
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Old June 24th, 2017, 08:40 PM   #3896
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
I will explain more, because it is complex.

In 2018 the HSR will be inaugurated according to the scheme, but we believe that there will be difficulties to get the trains for the commuter to Alicante, they should be S-104 114 or 121.

In 2020 the Valencia-Xátiva-La Encina section will be inaugurated, and and they will put S-121 trains Valencia-Alicante and Valencia-Murcia. By then there will be new S-106 Talgo Avril trains.

When the commuter Alicante-Murcia trains are HST in standard gauge the current commuter trains will only go from Alicante to San Isidro, and the gauge of the San Isidro-El Reguerón section will be changed to standard gauge.
What about the section Murcia-Aguilas? Will it be changed to standard gauge? Since part of it will be included in the future HSL to Almeria, it doesn' t make sense to keep it in iberian gauge as an island..
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Old June 24th, 2017, 11:11 PM   #3897
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What about the section Murcia-Aguilas? Will it be changed to standard gauge? Since part of it will be included in the future HSL to Almeria, it doesn' t make sense to keep it in iberian gauge as an island..
Good question, as the upgraded section between Sangonera and Librilla was just a double-tracking (although it has never entered service ), while the newer sections between Alhama de Murcia and Totana, and between Totana and Lorca are able for a full HSL with a third single Iberian segregated track, including La Hoya station, which had to be completely rebuilt for this.

However, this plan was IMO too reliant on the urban integration (aka, burying) of the line at both Murcia and Lorca.

Right now, no one has much certainty about what they'll end up doing there... not to talk about the section between Pulpi and Almeria, still unfinished...

Theorerically, the section between Lorca and Pulpi was to be changed gauge, including the Aguilas branch.

I suspect they'll end up building Pulpi-Almeria in Iberian and just upgrade Lorca to Pulpi, to perhaps be regauged later.

The main problem is that Murcia station is too small for a city of its size (far too few platforms, and this is including even the aftermath of the current upgrade). An outer south ring line for freight would do a lot of good to Murcia, too. But this would mean a lot of money, and we're in no state of planning loads of big things.

A pity, as Murcia is one of the bigger cities in Spain, and it deserves better.

Lorca-Sutullena station is too small, too, no room at all, although in this case it was Lorca-San Diego station that was to be completely rebuilt and expanded. However, money doesn't grow on trees...
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