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Old July 17th, 2006, 04:24 PM   #1
Leeds No.1
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Tbus

http://www.insideyorks.co.uk/tbus/index.html

Are there plans to introduce Tbus to Leeds? To be fair, while I would prefer supertram, this is by far my favourite option over superbuses, ftr bus etc- it could exploit the existing and planned busways. I did not know about any Tbus proposals prior to this...
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Old July 17th, 2006, 06:33 PM   #2
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Great find! How did you come across that?? Looks fairly reasonable idea, though not to sure about having those wires all over all the main roads in and around Leeds (without the benefits a tram brings). Also nothing like as good as a tram (as you say). Doesn't look too official though - no Metro/council/government involvemnt apparent...
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Old July 17th, 2006, 06:59 PM   #3
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same site as the London Tbus- there was a link on it for Leeds Tbus...
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Old July 17th, 2006, 07:05 PM   #4
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But I do actually think it brings the benefit of a tram, if it was up to the top standard. By that I mean, segregate it on seperate busways- on supertram routes so that it doesnt get stuck in traffic. Then it will be practically the same. One example was a tbus up to such a high standard that it could be upgraded to supertram if funds became available, another was a tbus with a guide rail in the ground and another was the Geneva tbus that has buses the same size as a Leeds Supertram, able to carry 200 passengers.
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Old July 17th, 2006, 07:41 PM   #5
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Looks very good, not a bad second best to Supertram.

Why wasn't this proposed and pushed for in the immediate aftermath of the cancellation when the government were back-healing and offering 'guilt' money ?
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Old July 17th, 2006, 08:43 PM   #6
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..

Last edited by onix; December 18th, 2007 at 11:15 PM.
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Old July 17th, 2006, 10:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onix
it actually has an advantage with it being able to overtake trafic.
Similar, it will stuck in traffic as easily as a bus. The main tram advantage IMO not the look, but the fact it travels fast and on schedule. Nice picture there of a tram being stuck at the corner, but I've never seen this in real life.



TB would be a greener solution for a city, but this is the only advantage I can think of.
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Old July 17th, 2006, 10:29 PM   #8
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Sorry but what WILL stuck is this thing turning from Headrow to Park Row:

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Old July 18th, 2006, 10:29 AM   #9
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I like tis better then the tram...I hate the mess of the rails... to me the wires look much better...and it would be easier to expand this type of system. I bet it still costs heaps more then it needs to do.
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Old July 21st, 2006, 05:23 PM   #10
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But it's just a bus that's powered differently isn't it? If it has dedicated Trolleybus only lanes, then surely the cost of creating these lanes and overhead shenanigans will be the same as a tram?
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Old July 21st, 2006, 05:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeds No.1
http://www.insideyorks.co.uk/tbus/index.html

Are there plans to introduce Tbus to Leeds?
Eeee, daft lad! Leeds 'as 'ad t'bus for years, tha nos...
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Old July 23rd, 2006, 02:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieP
Eeee, daft lad! Leeds 'as 'ad t'bus for years, tha nos...


Stop laikin and frame yersenn
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Old July 25th, 2006, 12:16 AM   #13
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Hello everybody. I was told about this excellent forum by one of your members, who e-mailed me to ask about the Tbus idea for Leeds. I am the culprit behind the website at http://www.tbusleeds.org.uk ! I'm glad that some of you liked it.

Although I couldn't really describe myself as a trolleybus enthusiast, I am extremely interested in regional development from a variety of angles. For this reason, the issue of skyscrapers is of interest to me also.

In addition, I have a particular interest in Leeds because it is the pre-eminent city in the region, from an economic point of view. For my sins, I am also a Leeds United fan!

I am promoting the idea of electric trolleybuses (Tbuses) in Leeds because they are the ideal solution to the twin problems of congestion and pollution which affect the city.

To answer a few of the points which have been raised:

* A Tbus (or any other kind of bus, for that matter) is no more likely to get stuck in traffic than a tram. If a tram mixes with ordinary traffic on the streets, it will get stuck in a jam just as easily as any other vehicle (I lived in Sheffield for five years - I've seen it happen). If, on the other hand, the tram is segregated from traffic, then this won't occur - *but* you can have a segregated busway just as easily as a segregated tramway and the same will apply. In such circumstances, the Tbus can be just as quick and reliable as any tram.

* The large Tbus in the picture (post #8) would be able to manouevre the junction at Headrow and Park Row just as well as a tram - in such vehicles, the middle and rear sections follow the front section faithfully. In addition, the Tbus would not suffer from the same kind of problem as that seen in the picture in post #7, because it can steer away from the obstruction, even whilst still connected to the wires - the tram cannot do this, as it is wedded to the rails. This kind of problem has been known to happen on the Croydon Tramlink, too.

* Constructing a trolleybus system costs much less than a tram. Many people do not realise that, in order to install a street-running tram system (like many sections of the Supertram route), it is not just a question of putting down the rails - the whole road has to be dug up to a depth of perhaps nine feet or more and all the services (sewers, electric cables etc.) have to be removed and relocated. This is because, once the rails are down, no roadworks are permitted - otherwise the tram lines would be blocked. The Tbus does not suffer from this problem, since it can overtake roadworks, or re-route altogether by running on batteries.

I hope that this answers your points adequately. Please tell me your further thoughts on the matter.

Sorry that this post is so long but I've been trying to get full membership rights on this forum since last Thursday! I think they must have been having problems. Never mind.

Keep up the good work on this fascinating forum.

PS. I must admit, the "t'bus" idea never occurred to me before. The gag's a gift for a future PR campaign!

Last edited by Electric_City; August 7th, 2006 at 10:50 PM.
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Old July 25th, 2006, 12:42 AM   #14
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Welcome to the forum Electric City!

The picture does look great, but what happens when the driver goes off course, does the t-bus then lose power or what? I suppose at least with the t-bus, there would be more chance of a greater route structure with a cheaper option to the supertram.
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Old July 25th, 2006, 01:26 AM   #15
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Hello, Smartcity.

If the driver goes off course too much, the trolley poles will come off the wires. This does happen very occasionally - these days it's a rare occurrence because of better equipment. However, it isn't really a problem, since all modern trolleybuses have some kind of back up power - usually batteries, or perhaps sometimes a small diesel generator.

The driver can then maneouvre the vehicle back under the wires and reconnect at a suitable location. The trolley poles can be raised or lowered by controls in the cab.

Some trolleybuses are designed specifically to run for some distance off-wire, such as the ones in Rome, where overhead wires are not allowed in the historic centre of the city. The claimed range for the batteries is 10km off-wire but I'd halve that to be on the safe side, especially during the Roman summer, when the air-conditioning is going full tilt.

If you were to introduce the Tbus on the same routes as the proposed ones for the Supertram, it would cost around half as much. Adding to the route would be a lot easier - if it's just a question of putting up the poles, wires and substations, then it's a lot quicker than putting down rails. Of course, any additions that were segregated would require more work but still not as much as with a tram.
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Old July 30th, 2006, 08:35 PM   #16
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Hi Electric City, thanks for the information, the website looks really good. The TBUS concept looks brilliant (both in concept and the all important image), and surely a good compromise for the defunct supertram requirement.



One further question though, has the Electric Tbus Group contacted Leeds City Council or Metro to sell the idea ? because the product looks superb and could be just what Leeds needs as the cheaper but effective alternative to supertram.
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Old July 30th, 2006, 08:38 PM   #17
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really seems like the best option at the moment. plus with the government pro busses it should(!!!) get approval.
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Old July 30th, 2006, 08:39 PM   #18
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I do agree, and to be honest everything could be the same except Tbus not Supertram, therefore cutting the preparation time down. Surely there would be the funding for this too; Im sure the city could raise the money if not- Metro, Yorkshire Forward etc could help. If necessary, one route could be built first to see how it works out and to cut the initial cost.
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Old July 30th, 2006, 08:47 PM   #19
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Not wishing to sound cynical but how much investment does this Tbus idea have and how originiated is this idea? Is it just one man in a shed or are large corporations behind this idea?

It does look good though but would probably prefer an underground (although a tram would be more realistic). It is odd though on that render as the tbus negotiates City Square as it kinks inwards like that because originally trams were to go straight on into a tram stop for city square (just where the pavement is outside of Wokmania) and this is one of the few examples of work that were done for that aborted scheme which I would have thought Tbus could potentially use.

Also what routes could be used for this if it is ever to be built. Is it the same as those for the axed supertram scheme or will different routes be used?
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Old July 31st, 2006, 12:45 PM   #20
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I was in Sofia the other day and saw the hundreds of trolley buses they have. Same idea as T'bus with wires etc (which trams use also). Their buses are a little older in design. Look like 1960's coaches with a big dodgem type pole at the back. I noticed that one of them had come off the wire, the 'bus driver' simply had a poulley system to reconnect. As outdated as they looked, they had that typical communist efficiency and for a busy city it seemed very clean and lacking pollution.

I really like this t'bus idea and have to say that I actually prefer it to the tram. I think with guided routers in key areas (Kirkstall road etc) this could be they key. I think they would be as comfortable as trams and should reduce congestion as much. They would also allow for many routes to come on board very quickly. I think if we would have got the three lines for the supertram, we would have been waiting at least ten years for any more lines. This system would give flexibility to extend routes wherever the roads allow and wherever there is demand.

The YEP should pick this up big time and push for it. I think people in Leeds would really go for this. It would also prevent the old folks in the city not moaning about the fact that we had a perfectly good tram network that was ripped up.
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